zornyan wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Templar :
-good stam class skills (jabs and jav and the one in dawns wrath that reduces armor.)
- healings passives do not work with rally/vigor.
- lack of movement means you'll be using rapids or bow passive.

DK:
- lack of dedicated stam spamable skill and charge (needs two hand)
- no mobility (similar to Templar
- take flight only ultimate to scale off physical dmg Champion points!!!!! (Meaning its physical dmg)

Funny that that's the ONLY Damm ultimate in the game that's physical damage. Even soul harvest or skills where you're actually using a weapon etc are all magic damage.

Well the only upside is that my harness magicka will absorb them all

All the more reason to add weapon line ultimate's.

I disagree. The weapon class lines add flexibility in your builds, whereas class skills offer distinct flavors.
Adding ultimates to stam weapon lines would raise the bar in favor of stamina further.

So basically there shouldn't be a single ultimate in the game for sorc/temp/nb that is physical damage? So none of them benefit from mighty?

Magicka is already well ahead stam in just about everything. More damage, more survivability , more sustain, more utility, more defence, higher dps

Magicka has 3 main forms of CP mitigation (not including spell resistance and crit resistance.).

Physical has only (1); armor value.

Magicka user cannot stack the amount of spell dmg the way a stamina user can stack weapon dmg. That plus CP mitigation is an argument that stamina overshadows magic for pvp for dmg.

Magicka builds have better options for sustain. Destro and Resto staffs trade dmg for better utility. Therefore magic builds rely on class skills for main dmg (varies). Makes sense for those skill lines to be magicka based instead of physical (also I don't see the logic in some of the animations showing elemental/magic effects but deal physical dmg. Take flight is only one that makes sense.)

Offering ultimates to a skill that anyone can pick up, will devalue the aspect of unique classes. Yes stamina build should have a certain advantage over magicka and tbh they have it now plus extra incentives to never go magicka ever again (for pvp.)

So unless we thought about the balancing through all the permutations, its probably best to leave weapon lines as flexible options than one-stop shops.

Summary:
Magicka: strong utility, low overall dmg, powerful ultimates, group oriented healing.

Stamina: extremely powerful unmitigated dmg, spamable dmg skills, weak ultimates, sustain tied to break-free/block/dodge/run, powerful self heals.

You missed vital points

Most magicka builds run around with around 30-40% penetration, nirnhoned swords on their own give 18% AND they give us a big boost to our spell resistance. My LA breton templar has nearly 30k spell resist, which means basically ALL your stam ultimates will deal less damage to me than to another stam build in medium armor.

You say it's easier to stack weapon damage, but I don't think that's true anymore, lots of magicka builds are running around with 4300-4500 spell power and 44k magicka . Some of the best Stamina builds like alcasts stamplar have 38k stam and 4300 weapon power. Ontop of that magicka builds have penetration

Also take alcasts stamplar, a very well thought out build that's as good as it can get, he pulls 18-20k dps in dungeons, the equivalent magicka builds are pulling 25k+

He even gave up when he found out that blabafat magicka build was consistantly hitting harder.

The most I've ever had in my death recap from a stam build was a 14k wrecking blow, BUT even with my greater spell resist ice also been hit by a 16k crystal frag .

Stamina also lacks self heals compared to magicka, a templar stam build basically has nothing, i can hit 18k breath of life's in pvp all day long.

So it's

Magicka
Best dps
Great sustain
Best utility
Best defence
Best heals

Stamina
Er can roll dodge a few more times?

In pve, magicka is king, not denying that.
In pvp, stamina is currently king; the burst is unreal lol.
(90% of my deaths are from stamina nightblades with stamina templars/DKs.)

Magicka builds for pvp have to run obsurdly high penetration, max magicka, dual swords with nirn, light armor to compete with a 2h wb med armor stamina build. That means splitting CP between two trees to balance adding crit/penetration and magic dmg. Stam users get to dump points into one tree, have passives in that same tree, and still get the magic dmg mitigation in warrior trees. Also running light armor means, your physical dmg mitigation is really low, but its our only option if we want burst dps and sustain.


16k crystal frag death? Mine only hit me for 5-9k. You need to invest in crit defense, magicka CP mitigation and purge their curse . There should never be a reason to get hit by that skill.

Also it should be noted, sorc is the magicka dps class, just like nb is the stamina dps class (meaning it arguably has better stamina skill morphs). But this means a sorc has no healing without Resto staff. Reduce his crit dmg on you and you reduce his only class heal.

With all that burst dps potential, you have no reason to have a strong healing class skill (have to use Resto staff and make bar sacrifices only supporting my stance that weapon lines are extra utility therefore should not receive an ultimate.). Healing as a stam build, you have vigor and rally both fixed to properly scale off weapon crit (hint you get a boost via champion points in the same tree you stack physical dmg. ). And one of those heals is a burst heal with a dmg buff added to it.

That is my argument why stam is more OP than magicka. The trade offs to achieve better dps is also its weakness to physical attacks. If it wasn't OP against magicka, more people outside sorc would roll it.

The 14k crystal frag was with 30k spell resist and 70 points into reduction of magic damage.

Stam templar has no more burst than magicka templar, infact they have less

As said about

Darkflare, javelin, toppling, sweeps.

All landing within 1 second, hitting for upwards of 20k damage in pvp.