zornyan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

I said the same thing in the thread about hardened ward and people just don't get it.

The new sets that were added, the new v16 jewellery enchants, the higher base damage of legendary v16 weapons.... they all pushed weapon/spell damage much higher than it was possible before. From what I see form my guild mates their average *buffed* weapon/spell damage is now 30% to 40% more than what it was before the IC update. By comparison max stamina/magicka has only increased by 5-10%, as there are no sets that give 3k-5k max stamina/magicka as 5-piece bonus, like there are sets that give 500 spell/wpn damage.

So what has really happened?

1) Under-geared people are much more affected by the Battle Spirit nerfs. Gear is everything. If you're under-geared you're not competitive at all any more. Period

2) The game became more grindy as gear is everything. You want damage, you have to do the grinds to get the gear. All decent gear is BOP rather than BOE. Even crafted sets need you to grind for mats. So grind, grind, grind. Grindy game is grindy

3) Damage was not nerfed as hard as people think exactly because average weapon/spell damage has increased so much. Things that don't scale from wpn/spell damage were nerfed even more by comparison, with wards being a prime example. My calculations show that Hardened Ward was nerfed by over 25% compared to average damage (doesn't stop people asking for nerfs), not only 5% the Battle Spirit change suggests.

4) Small scale became much harder not only because the game mechanics promote zerging, but because offense is so much more potent than defense now. Blocking, Dodging, Bolting, Shielding etc... they all took much bigger nerfs than damage. As a result when you're outnumbered 3v1, unless the people are under-leveled it's much much harder to keep up with the damage and CC coming your way.

One observation, ALL heals now scale off weapon/spell damage except Dragon Blood. Vigor, Rally, Resto Heals, Templar heals... the lot. So unlike what you @olsborg say, I find that healing has "kind of" kept up with damage because it scales off exactly the same stats, hence Templar BoL spamming is still very very effective. If you a DK relying on GDB tho.....

Couple points I disagree with.

Take spell damage, the only thing that's changed is willpower instead of cyrodil light, and glyphs are stronger, so maybe a couple hundred more, krag and torugs are still go to, and maybe 1 piece kena, yes you can use 2 but that means you'll only be casting a couple spells before your out of magicka, and isn't widely used or available.

This could not be more wrong. Edit: Well it´s right that it´s only a "couple of hundred more" however a couple of hundred by a base spelldmg of anywhere between 1300 to 2000 is an increase of anywhere between and 50% (the latter being extreme cases).

Before 1.7 i was running about as high of a spelldmg build as one could get with a destruction staff build on my sorc. This resulted in unbuffed spelldmg of ~1960 and buffed somewhere around 2380. 4p martial 4p healer 2p torug 1p bs. I could have gotten 120 spelldmg more at the cost of 930 magica by going cyro light + adroitness.
This gave me just above 30k magica.

Now i´m running Julianos 5p, torug 2p, willpower 3p, Kena 1p. This puts me unbuffed at 2670 spelldmg, buffed is 3160. At 33.3k magica.

This means while maxmagica increase by 10% my buffed spelldmg increased by 25%.

Bare in mind these are two relatively comparable setups. If i had the desire to push my spelldmg i could get another 240 by going apprentice over thief mundus. Or i could build a template with kena 2p which is in no way as restrictive on magica use as you´re making it out to be - the main reason it was sh*t was the increase on dodge/block/breakfree which has been fixed and would i have a headpiece with a good trait i´d be running kena any day of the week.

With kena i´d be at ~ 3700 spelldmg buffed which would be a 35% increase.

Anyone running sustain setups in 1.6 however will have seen much higher increases in spelldmg as they basically gained ~200 by weapons and 174 per ring enchantment. One enchantment alone is more than a 10% base increase for sustained dmg setups of 1.6.

So maulkins estimations are pretty spot on.

But you were using a staff? Just dual wielding then would have given you a large chunk more spell damage.

Your 'average' build now has what? 38-44k magicka, 3100-3300 spell damage and 1500 ish regen. That's fully buffed, dual wielding etc.

Even look at stam builds, their damage actually hasn't increased much over what was possible before, 4200 odd weapon damage is average, but that was doable in 1.6. All they've really gained is more max stam.

zornyan wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Take spell damage, the only thing that's changed is willpower instead of cyrodil light, and glyphs are stronger, so maybe a couple hundred more, krag and torugs are still go to, and maybe 1 piece kena, yes you can use 2 but that means you'll only be casting a couple spells before your out of magicka, and isn't widely used or available.

Krags did not used to give spell damage. That's 226 spell damage right there. The base weapon damage from v14 to v16 is another 220. Molag Kena 1-piece is another 129. Maestrom staff another 189. Those values all unbuffed. Jewel glyphs give 179 spell damage and they used to give 110 which made them inferior to cost reduction and weren't used. Willpower was only an increase of 60 spell damage compared previous jewelry pieces like Healer set (129 to 189).

By switching 1 jewel enchant to damage as well as the above sets you have easily 700-800 spell damage more after buffs.

I have 2.8k spell damage buffed now compared to 1.8k with my seducer or 2.1k with Martial Knowledge in version 2.0 (pre IC). That's 50% and 30% up respectively and I know have more sustain than both my previous setups. And none of that increase comes from CPs or passives.

zornyan wrote: »

So jewellery has changed for my templar, and a bit more for higher level weapons, I see far more magicks than I used to though, where as 33k odd used to be normal, 45k is now easily possible, infact I recently hit 40k on my imperial templar, so no 10% racial passive, no mage mundus either.

No. You don't know where your magicka is coming from.

You get 200 more magicka on Infused big pieces and 80 more magicka on small divines compared to the v14 gear of version 2.0. That's less than 1k combined. You got another 500 extra from willpower (compared to Healer) another 600 from higher Arcane traits combined (200x3) and another 1k form food. Total difference less than 3k. Even with all my CPs and racial passive giving me 30% more (does not apply to food) I barely get 3.5k more. I went from 35k to 38k personally. A 10% increase

What probably happened in your case from 2.0 is a) you got more CPs and they give % increase to your stats and b) you got Undaunted Passives and mixed gear.

zornyan wrote: »

The only real benefits is magicka users with 2x kena, but obviously not very useful or used for my reasons stated above.even with the shield nerf, I still see people with 14k hardened wards in pvp, then stacking 2 more ontop of that for 20k+ shields.

The difference is more pronounced on spell damage but stamina also got huge buffs from Kena, Maelstrom Weapons and base weapon damage. They can also scale 1k higher than they could before. Ask stamina users they'll tell you.

"Still see people with 14k Hardened Ward". And? With the +45k max magicka builds of 1.6 you could get over 20k Hardened Wards easy. Personally, I have 11k now when I used to have 16k with 2.5k less magicka. The people that rock high magicka to make those 14k wards are making sacrifices elsewhere (like regen and spell damage) and the point stands that wards are much reduced both in nominal values and relative to damage in 2.1. The dude shows screenshots hitting +10k Surprise Attacks. That's not much different then the damage of 2.0 while wards are 30% smaller in comparison.

As I always say about you, maths is not your strong point.

People are hitting more magicka ans having stronger wards than ever, especially with cp catch up meaning more and more sorcs getting CP into bastion .

I still see, and people still show they have 14-15k hardened wards, or 25k worth of stacked shields. There's people with 49-50k magicka with plenty of regen and spell damage still.

Nope, you don't know what you're talking about as always.

Just close your eyes to all the maths and spew lies it's all the same to me

And what about people having 150k worth of shields in pve? That's 70k + in pvp.

Clip or never happend.

In the general section on here, called "shield stack lol" or something like that, 2 odd weeks ago.

I've quoted it in the other thread in this section about sorc shield scaling. He got over 96k without healing ward .