cjthibs wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Another one...really? Didn't we hash all of this out a month ago?

Let's think about this for one second.

Any shield capable of blocking significant amounts of damage will be heavy.
Despite how buff you are, holding up heavy objects will wear you out. (Don't believe me? Grab a couple textbooks and hold them out in front of you for a minute or three. (Not paperbacks, big books.))
You feel that burning? That's your arms losing the capability to continue doing that forever.
Do you know what you need to do to be able to do that some more?

Rest your arms!

Now imagine getting smacked on that shield repeatedly. How long can you sustain that?

So...how does this not make sense?

In the world of magic, elves and cat people, this argument is invalid.

Except for one thing. If it's based on stamina...it ain't magic.

Really? you are going to use "logic" and "realism" in this game? Ok Heavy attacks, in what world does swinging "harder" a "heavy attack" take over 2s longer than a normal attack, and when would it ever be a good idea to leave yourself open to attack that long? Why should you get stam back from swinging harder, or pulling your bow string back farther? Why does heavy armor(plate armor) get bonuses to blocking, when the main point of plate armor was you didn't need a shield to block while wearing it? In fact blocking with a shield was used in chain mail, and by the time plate was made the use of shields began declining. Get out of here with realism arguments and EMURSION BS. This game has no collision detection, no friendly fire, and you carry siege in your pocket. Realism is not really considered.

Trayyacakes wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Another one...really? Didn't we hash all of this out a month ago?

Let's think about this for one second.

Any shield capable of blocking significant amounts of damage will be heavy.
Despite how buff you are, holding up heavy objects will wear you out. (Don't believe me? Grab a couple textbooks and hold them out in front of you for a minute or three. (Not paperbacks, big books.))
You feel that burning? That's your arms losing the capability to continue doing that forever.
Do you know what you need to do to be able to do that some more?

Rest your arms!

Now imagine getting smacked on that shield repeatedly. How long can you sustain that?

So...how does this not make sense?

In the world of magic, elves and cat people, this argument is invalid.

Except for one thing. If it's based on stamina...it ain't magic.

Really? you are going to use "logic" and "realism" in this game? Ok Heavy attacks, in what world does swinging "harder" a "heavy attack" take over 2s longer than a normal attack, and when would it ever be a good idea to leave yourself open to attack that long? Why should you get stam back from swinging harder, or pulling your bow string back farther? Why does heavy armor(plate armor) get bonuses to blocking, when the main point of plate armor was you didn't need a shield to block while wearing it? In fact blocking with a shield was used in chain mail, and by the time plate was made the use of shields began declining. Get out of here with realism arguments and EMURSION BS. This game has no collision detection, no friendly fire, and you carry siege in your pocket. Realism is not really considered.

A certain amount of realism is fun. Too little, not fun. Too much, not fun.
It's about striking a balance.

Nobody here is asking for or advocating 100% realism, and I highly doubt anyone would want 0% realism.

Personally, I don't think heavy attacks should give you back stamina, but I don't see the harm in it. We needed a mechanism to regain stamina without stopping combat, it provides one. Don't presume to know my stance on everything, you don't and you can't.

cjthibs wrote: »

Another one...really? Didn't we hash all of this out a month ago?

Let's think about this for one second.

Any shield capable of blocking significant amounts of damage will be heavy.
Despite how buff you are, holding up heavy objects will wear you out. (Don't believe me? Grab a couple textbooks and hold them out in front of you for a minute or three. (Not paperbacks, big books.))
You feel that burning? That's your arms losing the capability to continue doing that forever.
Do you know what you need to do to be able to do that some more?

Rest your arms!

Now imagine getting smacked on that shield repeatedly. How long can you sustain that?

So...how does this not make sense?

If a shield is designed to be carried in combat it is light weight, most shields like that were at or below 10 pounds. If a shield is that heavy it is either A, a death ticket, or B, designed to be planted in the ground. Also see the other post about things like heavy attacks lowering your guard and somehow gaining stamina, then suggest how the game should be changed for 'sense.'

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Another one...really? Didn't we hash all of this out a month ago?

Let's think about this for one second.

Any shield capable of blocking significant amounts of damage will be heavy.
Despite how buff you are, holding up heavy objects will wear you out. (Don't believe me? Grab a couple textbooks and hold them out in front of you for a minute or three. (Not paperbacks, big books.))
You feel that burning? That's your arms losing the capability to continue doing that forever.
Do you know what you need to do to be able to do that some more?

Rest your arms!

Now imagine getting smacked on that shield repeatedly. How long can you sustain that?

So...how does this not make sense?

In the world of magic, elves and cat people, this argument is invalid.

Then all arguments about armors, weapons, shields, should also be invalid. So where is my Castanic tera armor for my High Elf

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Another one...really? Didn't we hash all of this out a month ago?

Let's think about this for one second.

Any shield capable of blocking significant amounts of damage will be heavy.
Despite how buff you are, holding up heavy objects will wear you out. (Don't believe me? Grab a couple textbooks and hold them out in front of you for a minute or three. (Not paperbacks, big books.))
You feel that burning? That's your arms losing the capability to continue doing that forever.
Do you know what you need to do to be able to do that some more?

Rest your arms!

Now imagine getting smacked on that shield repeatedly. How long can you sustain that?

So...how does this not make sense?

@cjthibs

Would be be so kind as to give me an analogy for shooting fireballs from my hands or shooting lightning bolts from my finger tips?! How about turning into a werewolf? Hell, even if you could just tell me why my character can conjure up sticks of fire and light and I can't, it would be greatly appreciated. I mean, hold something that's on fire with your bare hands and tell me how you get on.

Whilst I agree with your sentiment, comparing anything in-game to real life is just completely ridiculous considering most of what we witness in the game has next to no bearing on real life genetics, physics and so on.

It's not ridiculous, because these things CAN be based on real world examples.

Of course I can't give you an analogy to anything magical because those things do not exist. Shield and swordplay however, do exist and therefore can be analogized.

Just to note, I didn't suggest any changes, even though I have been accused of such in this thread already.

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

You might have a valid argument if blocking didn't cost anything, however, there is a cost to blocking.

There is no sense in making a block different from swinging an axe. Go on, swing it around for a bit... feel that burning... maybe stop swinging the axe for a while and hide behind your shield while you catch your breath...

While there's a cost to swinging your axe it doesn't affect your regeneration and if you swing it hard enough it will even give you back some stamina!

If you want realism using a weapon should cost stam and reduce regen, while hiding behind your shield should be the low cost, high regen option.

Ideally you should be restricted to a single activity at a time. If you're blocking, or conjuring a shield, then you shouldn't be able to attack.

I basically agree with you other than the high regen while blocking.
Every action should cost.

I don't necessarily think actively blocking should kill all regen, but it should reduce it by a large margin.

Even so, the current setup (0 regen) is not crippling for tanks. It just requires a bit of thought rather than constantly holding up your shield.