This would negatively impact the experience of the more casual PvE player.

Bah - I'm getting awfully tired of all these threads telling people how they "should" play, and how players "should" communicate, and calls to Zeni to implement changes to makes things fall in line with how the loudmouth of the moment feels the world (and the people in it) "should" be.

Bugs need fixed, broken mechanics need fixed, known exploits need to be mitigated. Beyond that, everybody needs to tend to their own playstyle and preferences, and contribute positively to any groups thay are a part of. You don't have the right not to be annoyed by what anybody else does, nor to be bothered by what this game is compared to other games.

ETA - I recognize the hypocrisy, that this post makes me the loudmouth of the moment telling other people what to do (in this case, telling them to stop telling other people what to do)

I spam the hell outta sprint and block when in PvP. Oh and dodgeroll, thats my crutch right there. Until they nerf those...come at me bruh!

gard wrote: »

Snowgoons wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Spamming is a result of there being a best bang for your buck skill for the situation. No matter how things are changed, some theorist out there is going to run the numbers and find the skill that gives the best results. Using a skill over and over doesn't mean it's a crutch. Often doing so is simply the most efficient means to the end.

Also most spam is broken up by attack weaving, block canceling, and animation cuts. Rarely are players using one skill, and just that skill over and over.

I'm personally sick of people like you trying to use words like "weaving" "canceling" and "animation cuts" like you actually know what you are talking about or this requires some sort of skill, just mashing another button after you mashed the original button doesn't = skill.

On topic though: Even if that is the case, CLEARLY this "most efficient means to the end" as you put it, is a crutch.

Then what does? Isn't that what the game boils down to? Knowing what action to take and when?
Or do you play without mashing buttons using your psijiic mind powers? Please explain!

OMG where's the LOL button?

1. It's psijic don't try to use something you don't know how to spell.
2. If you don't know what im referring to in that statement and want to take it out of context cool.
3. The LOL button is right next to the google search button, make use of this next time.

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

I spam the hell outta sprint and block when in PvP. Oh and dodgeroll, thats my crutch right there. Until they nerf those...come at me bruh!

Two out of those three are getting the nerf hammer with the next update.

heh, not really sure what took them this long to notice PvP needed this, kinda scares me..

mcurley wrote: »

There are plenty of MMOs out there that have skills with cooldowns. Go play them.

If you think it takes more skill to calculate a strong skill rotation than it does to min/max a hero for ESO style combat then you are just wrong.

This is just not the game for you.

because I mentioned skill cooldowns. when you learn to read and formulate an on topic response, let me know.

Reverb wrote: »

Bah - I'm getting awfully tired of all these threads telling people how they "should" play, and how players "should" communicate, and calls to Zeni to implement changes to makes things fall in line with how the loudmouth of the moment feels the world (and the people in it) "should" be.

Bugs need fixed, broken mechanics need fixed, known exploits need to be mitigated. Beyond that, everybody needs to tend to their own playstyle and preferences, and contribute positively to any groups thay are a part of. You don't have the right not to be annoyed by what anybody else does, nor to be bothered by what this game is compared to other games.

ETA - I recognize the hypocrisy, that this post makes me the loudmouth of the moment telling other people what to do (in this case, telling them to stop telling other people what to do)

no one is saying someone can't just continue pressing one button if they want to, the other options should be attractive enough to allow multiple skills to shine not just one, if you still want to press one button, go for it, but as of now there really aren't many options for players.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

I spam the hell outta sprint and block when in PvP. Oh and dodgeroll, thats my crutch right there. Until they nerf those...come at me bruh!

Two out of those three are getting the nerf hammer with the next update.

Just kidding, I do none of these things...might be why I die so much. However, dem jabs, gots to have my jabs.

RobDaCool wrote: »

Ah MMO PVP, I've been playing MMO's long enough to know that if you kill me in PVP I'm a noob, if I kill you my class needs nerfed.

No it's the other way around if I kill you. I am awesome.
if you kill me. You are exploiting a broken OP class and need nerf.
If I can't sometimes kill you because you can run away..hm....Nerf Sorcs.

Snowgoons wrote: »

@ZOS_ArtG

I don't even see the difference in my post after your moderation edit, but cool, thanks for censoring me in some way.

You do realize in less than 100 years everyone here will be dead though right? I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's pointless to hide people from the raw truth like the news and government and *** already does, but that's your current job right, do your thing.

F7sus4 wrote: »

Snowgoons wrote: »

Any skill being spammed over and over by any class in pvp should be nerfed in pvp

i see this post is bringing out the intelligent crowd of ESO...but what do you expect from someone in a guild called Baby Face Bananas...

I see this is still going on.

TLDR of my earlier post: All skills have various uses. It is more efficient to use some skills more frequently than others when considering cast time, damage, resources used, cc timers etc...

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

Tetras had squares.

ESO NEEDS SQUARES NOW!!!! !! !!! !!!!!!!!!! LISTEN DEVS! !!!!! SQUARES !

Tetris*


As for the topic at hand which clearly became a flame war let's see... As a Dual-Wielding Nightblade my offense revolves around Funnel Health for both recovery and ranged attacking, Ambush to catch fleeing foes or get the drop on them, Blinding Flurry for close combat which also benefits me via passives, and I can use Steel Tornado when need be. Beyond that I have Mirage slotted and my Ultimate is Incapacitating Strike. This is my setup for now and is subject to change later on but I kick some serious ass when I bring my A-game using this and yes I can get spammy with Funnel Health at times but can you blame me? The only thing that can stop me from spamming my skills is depleted Magicka and Stamina. I for one am all about variety but in games like this you do what you need to do to survive. At the same time though spam is a weakness because if you see it too much you learn how to counter it so don't complain about spam but rather work on that counter. Yes spam is bleh and boring I understand that but whuddyagunnado?

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

Otto correct error.

Lol

I pity the device that has an auto-correct that does not recognize Tetris.

In most cases both pvp and pve if a player base gravitates to one particular skill or weapon in most cases it is because that skill or weapon is seen to have an advantage or some exploit attached to it, and gives at least in their mind some over powerful advantage, like at he moment nirn and sharpened, both broke and will be fixed in the next big update what ever year that will be..:)

So that is why you see some players pressing the same buttons over an over or doing the same thing over an over.

GaldorP wrote: »

There are some good reasons why almost any other MMOG from the past 10 years has clearly visible cast times and cool-downs on skill-use (for most skills)

It gives the players more feedback when they can use what skill, gives them a better idea of how strong each skill is, limits the use of powerful abilities without giving them very high resource cost and allows the designers to keep cast-times on most skills very, very low (except for channelling abilities) which makes the controls feel more responsive. Cool-downs also encourage the strategic use of skills. As a player, you don't want to waste a powerful ability with a 15 seconds cool-down by using it in the wrong moment.

Without cool-downs balancing is harder to control for the game designers. Hard-hitting instant damage skills all need long cast times and relatively high resource cost (Snipe, Uppercut, and Flurry, for example). Low resource cost damage abilities need to be mainly about secondary effects and deal low damage or have the main part of their damage being damage over time (over about 10 seconds; Entropy, Poison Arrow, Searing Strike, or Fire Rune, for example).

And still, abilities like Efficient Purge, Radiant Destruction, Ambush, Steel Tornado, Flame Lash, Dark Talons, Mass Hysteria, or Elemental Ring cause balancing issues when they're being spammed.

I like the combat in ESO, and I'm not saying the system should be changed to include cool-downs for all skills. But it might be helpful for PvP balance to actually add cool-downs for some abilities (Bolt Escape or dodge-rolls for example) instead of just increasing the cost for continuous use. Just something to consider.

By the way, Ultimates in ESO do have cool-downs already (or a mechanic that's very similar)

Very well put together post and very true, it would be good to see more intuitive changes than just "well make it cost more"

Balance is a very hard thing to achieve without breaking certain types of playstyles... you really have to worry about those people who flock to one type of skill when changing things like this because it really does make people angry, you fix something that has been broken for years or bugged and people quit the class, but to me it still doesn't mean just leave stuff broken to the point where people see mashing one button as a viable option.

I have seen people here complain that they only have 10 hotkeys and 5 available at a time and they start breaking down how they need healing abilities and support abilities and their attack abilities, but really says who? Why pretend you can cover all these roles when clearly you can't and it's reduced you to spamming one button? and why can't you be a dps with only dps skills on your bar? Why can't you be a healer with only healer abilities on your bar?

Answer: As many against me stated here, you want to pretend you can fill all roles and you're trying to achieve what you feel is best, or what Deltia's Gaming told you is best, how about using your brain? How about being independent?

I'm all for the freedom we have in ESO and being able to cover multiple roles, but unless were getting more hotkeys or something, this seriously needs to be looked at if it's reducing people to spamming 1-2 skills.

I have been killed by plenty of people that use skill morphs almost no one is choosing and use more than one skill, it's really sad how people just fall in line like sheep because something is "best" i.e. how many vampires there are compared to werewolves or people who don't choose either, i.e. how many dark elf/imperial dragonknights there are compared to any other race.

Humans really do resemble lemmings.

@ZOS

I also hate this "we made the game so we make the decisions but might look at something you suggest" mentality in every MMO, would it be wildly shocking for ZOS to suggest 4-5 different changes when changing something, and put a poll on the forums to see what we the actual players of the game think would work best?

Let people choose between bolt escape costing more and more and a cooldown etc, put some videos showing each in action and then a simple poll asking the players what they prefer, because if you don't care what the players want, you shouldn't be making video games for anyone but yourself.

so give any repeated use of a skill a cost cooldown? Ala Bolt escape?

ya. i could get behind that if nothing else than to get people to make full use of their bar..

it would help with Blobs.