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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
The 33% dodge roll penalty.
Best Answer
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Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes it will stack like the new BE to cut down on infi dodge rollers. Enough to still have dodging valid but not over the top that it is now with the whole Black Widow hard core parkor stabby stab stuff.5
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Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭why should a stamina cost increase and magica cvost increase stack with each other? makes both rather useless as you would have no option to ever reset any of them as a sorc while fighting...spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭why should a stamina cost increase and magica cvost increase stack with each other? makes both rather useless as you would have no option to ever reset any of them as a sorc while fighting...
OP is not asking if the two penalties stack with each other, he's asking if the roll dodge cost penalty stacks with itself in the same way that the Bolt Escape penalty stacks with itself.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
Zsymon✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »OP is not asking if the two penalties stack with each other, he's asking if the roll dodge cost penalty stacks with itself in the same way that the Bolt Escape penalty stacks with itself.
That was my question yes.0 -
Zsymon✭✭✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Yes it will stack like the new BE to cut down on infi dodge rollers. Enough to still have dodging valid but not over the top that it is now with the whole Black Widow hard core parkor stabby stab stuff.
If the dodge roll penalty really stacks, then dodging is not viable anymore at all, certainly not for medium armor users, who rely solely on dodge to stay alive, since they have no block or damage shields.
With the new change a medium armor user could not dodge any more than a magicka user, since they would otherwise burn all the stamina they need for abilities.
All you would have to do is keep firing projectiles at a medium armor user, and they will blow up without any chance of survival; they can't block the projectiles, they can't dodge 'em, they can't absorb them, they'll just die.
While shield stacking is still there without the slightest nerf to damage shields. How is that balance?Edited by Zsymon on 4 July 2015 07:161 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭
well the way he formulated his question this was not entirely clear...Emma_Eunjung wrote: »why should a stamina cost increase and magica cvost increase stack with each other? makes both rather useless as you would have no option to ever reset any of them as a sorc while fighting...
OP is not asking if the two penalties stack with each other, he's asking if the roll dodge cost penalty stacks with itself in the same way that the Bolt Escape penalty stacks with itself.
_________________________________________Does anyone know if this dodge roll penalty stacks like with the new Bolt Escape?Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Yes it will stack like the new BE to cut down on infi dodge rollers. Enough to still have dodging valid but not over the top that it is now with the whole Black Widow hard core parkor stabby stab stuff.
If the dodge roll penalty really stacks, then dodging is not viable anymore at all, certainly not for medium armor users, who rely solely on dodge to stay alive, since they have no block or damage shields.
With the new change a medium armor user could not dodge any more than a magicka user, since they would otherwise burn all the stamina they need for abilities.
All you would have to do is keep firing projectiles at a medium armor user, and they will blow up without any chance of survival; they can't block the projectiles, they can't dodge 'em, they can't absorb them, they'll just die.
While shield stacking is still there without the slightest nerf to damage shields. How is that balance?
it depends on the reset timer, if its like the current BE timer (4sec) i see no problems with the increasement as you do have frequently situations where you do not need to roll for 4 sec by braking los or using other abilities to cover that time.
so i do not see any problems.
spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
iseko✭✭✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Yes it will stack like the new BE to cut down on infi dodge rollers. Enough to still have dodging valid but not over the top that it is now with the whole Black Widow hard core parkor stabby stab stuff.
If the dodge roll penalty really stacks, then dodging is not viable anymore at all, certainly not for medium armor users, who rely solely on dodge to stay alive, since they have no block or damage shields.
With the new change a medium armor user could not dodge any more than a magicka user, since they would otherwise burn all the stamina they need for abilities.
All you would have to do is keep firing projectiles at a medium armor user, and they will blow up without any chance of survival; they can't block the projectiles, they can't dodge 'em, they can't absorb them, they'll just die.
While shield stacking is still there without the slightest nerf to damage shields. How is that balance?
Shields were reduced in cyrodiil by 15% (now). In 1.7 it will be by 50% (so another 35%). Not the slightest nerf? A 12k hardened ward is now going to be 7.5k ish. Dmg is also reduced by 50%. But it was not nerfed now. So shields will be stronger in 1.7 then 1.6 one might say... However. The MAJOR class to shield stack is sorcs. And the nerfbat came down haaaaard on sorcs. The shields were just a means to an end. Take 1-2 hits while streaking awah to safety. That second part: the streaking is going to become much much harder. If you do not play a sorc you will not know this. I tell you: sorcs got f'ed over. Especially since a lot of them use block as well. Getting knocked down = death. They have very limited stamina pool and low stam regen. Those seconds that their regen is 0%... Sorcs are going to be a LOT easier to kill me thinks. No more running and harder stamina management.
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vichoi✭✭✭As a sorc who highly rely on BE, I'm happy with the change, without an option to run, I'll fight till I die, as I know the dodge roll runner will stay in the fight too. However, I'm worry about the future nerf if cost increase Is the only solution ZOS can think of.
And the cloak NB sounds too strong and fun to play with the buff.Edited by vichoi on 4 July 2015 11:030 -
Zsymon✭✭✭✭Shields were reduced in cyrodiil by 15% (now). In 1.7 it will be by 50% (so another 35%). Not the slightest nerf?
Yes, not the slightest nerf, if damage gets lowered too then lowering damage shield values is not a nerf, it's an adjustment. If they wouldn't lower damage shields by 50% when damage gets lowered by 50%, it would be a 100% buff to shields.
That means damage shields after the update will be exactly as they were before, not the slightest nerf, while every other defense was nerfed into the ground.Edited by Zsymon on 4 July 2015 11:240 -
iseko✭✭✭✭Shields were reduced in cyrodiil by 15% (now). In 1.7 it will be by 50% (so another 35%). Not the slightest nerf?
Yes, not the slightest nerf, if damage gets lowered too then lowering damage shield values is not a nerf, it's an adjustment. If they wouldn't lower damage shields by 50% when damage gets lowered by 50%, it would be a 100% buff to shields.
That means damage shields after the update will be exactly as they were before, not the slightest nerf, while every other defense was nerfed into the ground.
Way to quote only part of what I said. I acknowledged what you are saying in my next bit (the post you half quoted). Major class to stack shields is sorcs. Shield ate unmitigated. They only use them to take a couple of hits while streaking away. That wont work anymore. Their stamina pool will get recked if they start to use block. Which sorcs often do btw... So it will be stand and fight for them. And the shields alone wont help them enough with that.
Edited by iseko on 4 July 2015 12:020 -
Zsymon✭✭✭✭I have seen plenty of Sorcs continuously eating the attacks of 5-6 people at once, stacking their shields over and over without ever getting low on health, taking down those attackers one by one. Stacked shields do far more than just eat a few blows between Bolt Escapes, I understand you want to minimize your favorite classes' strengths, but people already know how insanely powerful stacked shield Sorcs are, there's no need to try and convince us you're not that strong.
When the update hits, Sorcs will be the only class with a strong defensive mechanic, and it was already the strongest to begin with. There was absolutely no reason to leave shield stacking intact while nerfing dodge and block into the ground. It should be absolutely impossible to have up more than one damage shield.0 -
iseko✭✭✭✭I have seen plenty of Sorcs continuously eating the attacks of 5-6 people at once, stacking their shields over and over without ever getting low on health, taking down those attackers one by one. Stacked shields do far more than just eat a few blows between Bolt Escapes, I understand you want to minimize your favorite classes' strengths, but people already know how insanely powerful stacked shield Sorcs are, there's no need to try and convince us you're not that strong.
When the update hits, Sorcs will be the only class with a strong defensive mechanic, and it was already the strongest to begin with. There was absolutely no reason to leave shield stacking intact while nerfing dodge and block into the ground. It should be absolutely impossible to have up more than one damage shield.
my main is not a sorc. It's templar. I have a VR14 sorc but I find it boring. Don't like playing with it so ultimately I dont care.
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Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Awesome now stamina sorcs will have no defense.Tome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462509/tome-of-alteration-mastery-ii-the-decievers-manual-thieving-guide-for-new-characters
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/505262/adventures-in-ultra-ultrawide-an-ongoing-series1 -
cozmon3c_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Awesome now stamina sorcs will have no defense.
Yup stam sorc is done now, Eric didn't even make an attempt at making them a viable option like he said he would back in February.Guild UMBRA Chapter Lead
~Leper Si -V14 Sorcerer~
Youtube Channel - Leper
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCozmon3c/videos2 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shields were reduced in cyrodiil by 15% (now). In 1.7 it will be by 50% (so another 35%). Not the slightest nerf?
Yes, not the slightest nerf, if damage gets lowered too then lowering damage shield values is not a nerf, it's an adjustment. If they wouldn't lower damage shields by 50% when damage gets lowered by 50%, it would be a 100% buff to shields.
That means damage shields after the update will be exactly as they were before, not the slightest nerf, while every other defense was nerfed into the ground.
Way to quote only part of what I said. I acknowledged what you are saying in my next bit (the post you half quoted). Major class to stack shields is sorcs. Shield ate unmitigated. They only use them to take a couple of hits while streaking away. That wont work anymore. Their stamina pool will get recked if they start to use block. Which sorcs often do btw... So it will be stand and fight for them. And the shields alone wont help them enough with that.
I shield stack right in the middle of blobs of people and AOE then to dust. Only time I streak is to make people self aware or panic that they are about to be hit by a bomb.
So dont say its all they do it for.@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
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Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nothing2591 wrote: »rip non nightblade stamina pvp builds
Stamina NBs got nerfed double if you ask me, they mostly rely on dodge-roll/block to avoid/reduce damage.
If they want to roll a lot their stamina regen needs to be very high, this means their max stamina and/ore weapon damage will be lower. With the increased dodge roll cost for dodging multiple times they will have to rely a lot more on Cloak to sustain.
This means their magicka pool will deplete faster and they wont be able to Fear as much as before.
I think magicka NBs will have a huge advantage because they can spam Cloak and Fear as much as they like.
On top of that, the damage of proximity detonation will be increased which is great for magicka NBs.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
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Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer0 -
Zsymon✭✭✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »On top of that, the damage of proximity detonation will be increased which is great for magicka NBs.
I don't think they said the damage will be increased, they just said it will scale with the amount of people it hits.. it will probably hit for far less on one or two targets, compared to now. Basically a big nerf against low amounts of targets, and it will likely be useless in 1vs1 or 1vs2 fights.Edited by Zsymon on 5 July 2015 16:540 -
Zsymon✭✭✭✭nothing2591 wrote: »rip non nightblade stamina pvp builds
Stamina NBs got hit the hardest by this nerf, since they have no defense apart from dodge, unlike DKs and Templars. No matter how much stamina recovery a NB has, they'll never be able to dodge more than DKs or Templars now, due to the rapidly stacking high penalty, since their stamina would be at zero in seconds.
I don't think anyone even bothered thinking of stamina Sorcs though, they probably feel Sorcs shouldn't be stamina builds, otherwise they would have done at least some meaningful stamina addition to that class.
Edited by Zsymon on 5 July 2015 17:000 -
Zsymon✭✭✭✭There is absolutely no reason to have high stamina recovery anymore after this update. There will be literally not a single advantage you gain by having a high stamina recovery.
Eventually it will be RIP stamina builds in general, everyone will go back to magicka.Edited by Zsymon on 6 July 2015 08:040 -
R0M2K✭✭✭✭Yup agree, why use medium armor at all now?
- Burst wont be enough
- Roll is dead
- Nirn is dead
- Block is dead
Harry, hermion and Dumber-rofl will be pleased.0 -
byrom101b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Yup agree, why use medium armor at all now?
- Burst wont be enough
- Roll is dead
- Nirn is dead
- Block is dead
Harry, hermion and Dumber-rofl will be pleased.
Do you have anything else to say other than Harry Potter?
Zenimax will take away your infinity dodges and your 50K+ spell resistance and your one-shoting from stealth, and you are upset.
I get it.
But you had it good, oh so laughably ezemode good for a while, so don't complain.
Stop eating sour grapes and start thinking about how your closing skills will eat Sorcs for breakfast when they run out of magicka on their third BE and have nothing to hit you with, can't dodge more than twice and can't block your insane stamina burst (yes, it's still there...) for more than 0.5 seconds before their tiny stamina pool is gone...Edited by byrom101b16_ESO on 6 July 2015 17:330 -
tonemd✭✭✭✭So, does the stacking only occur if the roll is back to back, or is there a window in which a consecutive dodge roll will cause the increase? Like if I do dodge-roll-cast-dodge-roll or dodge roll-block-dodge roll will it still stack if it's within a certain amount of time?
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