The Problem with PVP that could End ESO

dwayneaharveyub17_ESO · June 2015

Everyone I know loves PVP. The ultimate test of your skills is not playing scripted world bosses, but facing unpredictable players who have mastered their skills. I get rolled all the time, so I am nowhere near those guys, but I aspire to be one day.

The problem with PVP in this game it seems is AD usually rolls certain servers on pvp. Our server was steady. AD won while many players dualed 1v1. We had an AD guy switch sides on our server and come to EP, organize us and create zerg groups like the AD have. (AD has many talented players as well, of course). Now EP was rolling everyone and all hell broke loose. People switching campaigns, guilds and even sides to combat the evil that had been created. People hacking into other peoples TeamSpeak to spy. It even went as far as someone MAKING A FAKE DEATH THREAT and having the police called to someone's house at 2 in the morning because he would not be crowned Emperor.

Where is the Fun at?

Small groups get run over by big groups. Big groups get run over by even Bigger groups. Then AD had no population on our campaign and was getting bonus points for there low pop, then they all switch over to our campaign to thwart our run.

This is a game, and it is supposed to be fun, WOW lost my attention because of too many elites who dogged the casual player.

My question is this. Why cant we have small scale PVP, based on our rankings, that would enable us to play against players on our level and have some fun?

Other Games Like WOW and EverQuest 2 - has a wonderful PVP system, but the game is nowhere as fun as ESO. Its time for ESO to adapt. This experiment is not working.

Large Scale PVP is dominated by LARGE groups. I am not good enough to be in a snipe group yet, so can ESO swallow their pride and give us small scale PVP?
Or we need more servers to spread out the Large groups and prevent the campaign switching. I know some will switch despite the 150K AP cost that is being proposed because they are at the top and have it to spend.

Zsymon · June 2015

I don't think ZOS can enforce small scale PvP, it's something that players create by going out with smaller groups. I guess ZOS could theoretically give PvP rewards and bonuses to people moving about in groups of 2-4. Maybe Imperial City will change things, I dunno. But Cyrodil right now was designed for large scale PvP.. it's meant to be zerged.

TheLaw · June 2015

Vet PVP on PC has been dead for months. We've been begging Zenimax to make changes for almost a year now, but they don't seem to care about our feedback.

Teargrants · June 2015

Um no, the problem with pvp that will kill the game is LAG. Lag has caused more ppl to quit than anything else.

Roselle · June 2015

I lag more in Bangkorai than Cyrodiil.

I'm not joking.

THIS GAME MAKES NO SENSE.

Ace_SiN · June 2015

dwayneaharveyub17_ESO wrote: »

Everyone I know loves PVP. The ultimate test of your skills is not playing scripted world bosses, but facing unpredictable players who have mastered their skills. I get rolled all the time, so I am nowhere near those guys, but I aspire to be one day.

The problem with PVP in this game it seems is AD usually rolls certain servers on pvp. Our server was steady. AD won while many players dualed 1v1. We had an AD guy switch sides on our server and come to EP, organize us and create zerg groups like the AD have. (AD has many talented players as well, of course). Now EP was rolling everyone and all hell broke loose. People switching campaigns, guilds and even sides to combat the evil that had been created. People hacking into other peoples TeamSpeak to spy. It even went as far as someone MAKING A FAKE DEATH THREAT and having the police called to someone's house at 2 in the morning because he would not be crowned Emperor.

You've never played a sandbox MMO, have you(granted ESO isn't a sandbox)? Besides the cop calling part, this is all normal for a game that involves conquering territory. This was normal at the start of PC launch, but the "politics" died out after people realized how meaningless winning the campaign is. If they made PvP more meaningful then I'd imagine this type of deception would return.

dwayneaharveyub17_ESO wrote: »

Small groups get run over by big groups. Big groups get run over by even Bigger groups. Then AD had no population on our campaign and was getting bonus points for there low pop, then they all switch over to our campaign to thwart our run.

Small groups don't inherently get destroyed by a big group. EP normally has the biggest zerg on PC, but that doesn't mean DC and AD just fall over either. Most of it is a L2P issue.

dwayneaharveyub17_ESO wrote: »

My question is this. Why cant we have small scale PVP, based on our rankings, that would enable us to play against players on our level and have some fun?

Other Games Like WOW and EverQuest 2 - has a wonderful PVP system, but the game is nowhere as fun as ESO. Its time for ESO to adapt. This experiment is not working.

WoW PvP is fun on a competitive level, but it gets old really fast. WoW doesn't offer the dynamic PvP situations that you can find yourself in in any MMO that offers some sort of Open World PvP environment.

dwayneaharveyub17_ESO wrote: »

Large Scale PVP is dominated by LARGE groups. I am not good enough to be in a snipe group yet, so can ESO swallow their pride and give us small scale PVP?

As I said, it's a l2p issue. As long as you're not trying to take keeps with 5-10 guys, then there's plenty of small scale opportunities.

Teargrants wrote: »

Um no, the problem with pvp that will kill the game is LAG. Lag has caused more ppl to quit than anything else.

^This.

Forestd16b14_ESO · June 2015

No what's causing it is is elitest pvp guilds be EP, AD, or DC. exploiters and broken mechanics that every one abuses. Not the Ebonheart Pact players. Cause I remember a time when AD did the same thing a few months ago rolling through ever server taking it over.

Were all to blame about PvP not one faction not one guild not one player so please love of Kyne shut up about all the bashing against each other guild faction and so on about how there "the reason" why pvp is in a very bad spot now. You high and mighty AD players are just as bad and much as fault for PvPs problems as EP or DC.

Robbmrp · June 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

I don't think ZOS can enforce small scale PvP, it's something that players create by going out with smaller groups. I guess ZOS could theoretically give PvP rewards and bonuses to people moving about in groups of 2-4. Maybe Imperial City will change things, I dunno. But Cyrodil right now was designed for large scale PvP.. it's meant to be zerged.

@ZOS could create Campaigns based on levels. They can easily set them up for levels 10-20, 30-40, 40-50, V1-V7 and V8 - V14. They could be smaller zones with 1/3 of the population of the full Campaigns.

There's many ways they can do this. The question is... Will they.....

k2blader · June 2015

dwayneaharveyub17_ESO wrote: »

My question is this. Why cant we have small scale PVP, based on our rankings, that would enable us to play against players on our level and have some fun?

It would take a lot of money and effort and Zeni probably doesn't think the investment would be worth it.

Personally I like the idea of bracketed battlegrounds over what Cyrodiil is now.

DoubleShot27 · June 2015

its called join a different server

Snit · June 2015

This is an RvRvR game, focused on open-world warfare. It's not about 4x4, or 8x8 battlegrounds, e-sport etc. There are plenty of games that do those well.

Oddly, no game does both well. It tends to be either open-world or Warsong Gulch. Not both. I'm not sure why this is, but I am sure I want TESO to stay focused on Cyrodiil. I picked this game because of that focus.

filmoretub17_ESO · June 2015

TheLaw wrote: »

Vet PVP on PC has been dead for months. We've been begging Zenimax to make changes for almost a year now, but they don't seem to care about our feedback.

What game you been playing? PVP has been alive ever since launch. Yes, there are issues but pvp is very much alive.

roastedduck · June 2015

pvp is not dead, everyones just rerolling sorcs then after they cant kill nbs they rerolled nbs, just wait till they are fully geared at it will be full pop again

kevlarto_ESO · June 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Um no, the problem with pvp that will kill the game is LAG. Lag has caused more ppl to quit than anything else.

This^^^^ Everything from insta-jib, speed hacks, vamp exploits with mitigation to shield stacking, to glitching into keeps, ninja scrolling, and the list of issues goes on and on, has not caused more people to leave the game than lag, it is the common enemy of all factions.

Kupoking · June 2015

Ill tell you why small scale pvp will induce more elitism like in games like WoW.

In structured pvp (pvp with fixed numbers on each side) a player with less skills gets more noticed. That 'bad' or 'newb' player will be pushed aside by elitist players and if he is unlucky, will get completely destroyed by being branded a weak player.

In an open warfare pvp system, like in eso, daoc, WvW Gw2, those weaker players are less noticed as they are a part of a bigger whole.They end up contributing at their own way and own pase to success of all, learning bit by bit on how to become a great player.

It doesnt work that way with every groups in ESO. The game is full of elitist *** with ridiculous egos. But some guipd, like mine, take pride i to picking up ppl branded as 'pugs', giving them a role in a bigger whole, building their knowledge and skill eventually making them player able to compete with those elitist jerks.

It is the essence of the pvp those games has to offer. If you do not understand it and want to change this game your way, you are leaving all those people behind, who work for a whole rather than for personnal praise.

Kupoking · June 2015

Besides, wow and eq2 are not pvp ganes. Pvp in those games are a mini game and in fact those games are failures in term of pvp.

I would believe that structured PvP was a good solution if I didnt witness it killing a beautiful Realm vs Realm game (Warhammer online)

Vizier · June 2015

ZoS needs to create campaign objectives that are more remote in Cyrodiil such as holding roads, small towns, quest hubs, priories, non-keep mines and mills etc. Make then have significant impact for their faction. If there is a great many of these objectives it won't be convenient or even practical for Zergs to keep them since the zerg can't be everywhere. These objectives would promote small group PvP. They could even create some delves that only allow let's say 4 of each faction in at any given time and those that hold it contribute passive bonus to their alliance. There is so much wasted potential but instead ZoS concentrates on this glorified tower defense mode PvP. Too bad, really.

Kupoking · June 2015

Vizier wrote: »

ZoS needs to create campaign objectives that are more remote in Cyrodiil such as holding roads, small towns, quest hubs, priories, non-keep mines and mills etc. Make then have significant impact for their faction. If there is a great many of these objectives it won't be convenient or even practical for Zergs to keep them since the zerg can't be everywhere. These objectives would promote small group PvP. They could even create some delves that only allow let's say 4 of each faction in at any given time and those that hold it contribute passive bonus to their alliance. There is so much wasted potential but instead ZoS concentrates on this glorified tower defense mode PvP. Too bad, really.

Your so right

Rune_Relic · June 2015

Roselle wrote: »

I lag more in Bangkorai than Cyrodiil.

I'm not joking.

THIS GAME MAKES NO SENSE.

The PVP is still on the same physical servers as PVE.
If PVP is creating server issues it will hit everyone., regardless of campaign and location.

Sotha_Sil · June 2015

Vizier wrote: »

ZoS needs to create campaign objectives that are more remote in Cyrodiil such as holding roads, small towns, quest hubs, priories, non-keep mines and mills etc. Make then have significant impact for their faction. If there is a great many of these objectives it won't be convenient or even practical for Zergs to keep them since the zerg can't be everywhere. These objectives would promote small group PvP. They could even create some delves that only allow let's say 4 of each faction in at any given time and those that hold it contribute passive bonus to their alliance. There is so much wasted potential but instead ZoS concentrates on this glorified tower defense mode PvP. Too bad, really.

Hear! Hear!

filmoretub17_ESO · June 2015

Vizier wrote: »

ZoS needs to create campaign objectives that are more remote in Cyrodiil such as holding roads, small towns, quest hubs, priories, non-keep mines and mills etc. Make then have significant impact for their faction. If there is a great many of these objectives it won't be convenient or even practical for Zergs to keep them since the zerg can't be everywhere. These objectives would promote small group PvP. They could even create some delves that only allow let's say 4 of each faction in at any given time and those that hold it contribute passive bonus to their alliance. There is so much wasted potential but instead ZoS concentrates on this glorified tower defense mode PvP. Too bad, really.

This is some good ideas but you are ignoring the fact that they are already going to implement different types of cyrodiil that will promote small groups. It is already approved and moving into the game soon as they finish the patch.

Garion · June 2015

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

ZoS needs to create campaign objectives that are more remote in Cyrodiil such as holding roads, small towns, quest hubs, priories, non-keep mines and mills etc. Make then have significant impact for their faction. If there is a great many of these objectives it won't be convenient or even practical for Zergs to keep them since the zerg can't be everywhere. These objectives would promote small group PvP. They could even create some delves that only allow let's say 4 of each faction in at any given time and those that hold it contribute passive bonus to their alliance. There is so much wasted potential but instead ZoS concentrates on this glorified tower defense mode PvP. Too bad, really.

This is some good ideas but you are ignoring the fact that they are already going to implement different types of cyrodiil that will promote small groups. It is already approved and moving into the game soon as they finish the patch.

Changing the way campaign scoring works will make little... If any difference to Cyrodiil. This whole idea to have a campaign with resources counting toward scoring is a nice idea but makeshift me difference in reality because the vast majority of players don't care about scoring.

Introducing entirely new objectives would be both refreshing and would help to give groups both large and small more purpose within Cyro.

Jules · June 2015

Vizier wrote: »

ZoS needs to create campaign objectives that are more remote in Cyrodiil such as holding roads, small towns, quest hubs, priories, non-keep mines and mills etc. Make then have significant impact for their faction. If there is a great many of these objectives it won't be convenient or even practical for Zergs to keep them since the zerg can't be everywhere. These objectives would promote small group PvP. They could even create some delves that only allow let's say 4 of each faction in at any given time and those that hold it contribute passive bonus to their alliance. There is so much wasted potential but instead ZoS concentrates on this glorified tower defense mode PvP. Too bad, really.

This sounds like a really fun and interesting idea for the small man side of things. I especially like your 4v4v4 idea where whichever faction holds a delve/whatever gives passive bonuses to their alliance. However TTK is very short, I wonder if this idea would need to be reworked so that it would prove to be a feasible and still challenging goal for small mans.

lonestar_kid92 · June 2015

Roselle wrote: »

I lag more in Bangkorai than Cyrodiil.

I'm not joking.

THIS GAME MAKES NO SENSE.

Same here as soon as I got south the whole game got screwy go anywhere else its comply fine

lottasay_ESO · June 2015

TheLaw wrote: »

Vet PVP on PC has been dead for months. We've been begging Zenimax to make changes for almost a year now, but they don't seem to care about our feedback.

This.

They seem to ignore the fact that Cyrodil is nothing more than a zerg fast.

Add instanced battlegrounds, arena and we're good.

Vizier · June 2015

Jules wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

ZoS needs to create campaign objectives that are more remote in Cyrodiil such as holding roads, small towns, quest hubs, priories, non-keep mines and mills etc. Make then have significant impact for their faction. If there is a great many of these objectives it won't be convenient or even practical for Zergs to keep them since the zerg can't be everywhere. These objectives would promote small group PvP. They could even create some delves that only allow let's say 4 of each faction in at any given time and those that hold it contribute passive bonus to their alliance. There is so much wasted potential but instead ZoS concentrates on this glorified tower defense mode PvP. Too bad, really.

This sounds like a really fun and interesting idea for the small man side of things. I especially like your 4v4v4 idea where whichever faction holds a delve/whatever gives passive bonuses to their alliance. However TTK is very short, I wonder if this idea would need to be reworked so that it would prove to be a feasible and still challenging goal for small mans.

I hear you. The nice thing about this idea is it wouldn't require much additional content at all. For the most part the content is already there. They pretty much just need to add flags for indicating factional ownership, determine what "value" it would give the owning alliance and ensure objectives are fairly evenly spread around. I'm sure theirs more involved but seems pretty simple to me all things considered.