Why no CP constellations to reduce physical dmg?

Baphomet · May 2015

We have "hardy" and "elemental" defender which easily reduces damage of pratically all magical attacks with a very little investment. Why isn't there a counterpart for regular physical damage?

It's so easy to take 6-10% damage off fire, frost, shock, magic, poison and disease dmg, but you have to invest tons and tons of CP in armor focus for a very, very minor physical mitigation.

Shouldn't there be an equal to "hardy" and elemental defender" for physical damage, which already out dps magic by a good margin?

F7sus4 · May 2015

That was my first thought when I saw Light/Medium/Heavy Armor Focus CP passives.

The best boost is being received by that type of armor that already provides the best defense (Heavy), while the weakest armor that needs it the most gets close to nothing (Light).

Doing some math, +15% bonus with approx. 25000 Armor (Heavy Armor) is +3750. That's massive. And +15% bonus on 2500 Armor (Light Armor), which gives +375 is... well, just laughable and utterly not worth wasting your 100 Champion Points. With just 20 invested it's gonna be 0,00...% additional damage mitigation, ergo - not worth it.

Of course, no one should expect boosting Light Armor with CPs to make himself tank, but the difference should have been at least noticeable, while it is completely negligible. So the conclusion is that it's, obviously, not Light Armor users' way to go. There are certainly better passives to stick with for increasing damage mitigation - shield boosters in particular and Bastion is a perfect example (affects Hardened Ward, Ward Ally etc.). Definitely worth it. Hope it helps.

Turelus · May 2015

The thing is most casual gamers don't crunch these numbers, so to them they see the light amour passive and go "Hey, I can use this!".

I believe it was at the ESO Guild Summit about the Champion System where ZOS said they don't really work the game around the hardcore players because most players are casual and don't care about those numbers.

Garion · May 2015

Because ZOS very obviously want stamina builds to rule the world.

Turelus · May 2015

Garion wrote: »

Because ZOS very obviously want stamina builds to rule the world.

Well, maybe they just wanted Stamina players to be able to say "Now you know how I felt!"

RavenSworn · May 2015

Garion wrote: »

Because ZOS very obviously want stamina builds to rule the world.

Yeap, wanna know what they called ESO before 1.6?

Elder Sorcerers Online. Because everyone's a Sorcerer online.

Garion · May 2015

Turelus wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Because ZOS very obviously want stamina builds to rule the world.

Well, maybe they just wanted Stamina players to be able to say "Now you know how I felt!"

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Because ZOS very obviously want stamina builds to rule the world.

Yeap, wanna know what they called ESO before 1.6?

Elder Sorcerers Online. Because everyone's a Sorcerer online.

Yeah I get it, magicka was powerful pre 1.6. That doesn't mean stamina builds should be the OP ones post 1.6. The whole idea behind this big change was balance. The game is probably less balanced than before.

Turelus · May 2015

Garion it will be balanced again, we're just stuck on this build until after console release and we get the first real large build.

Mayrael · May 2015

I hope so, cause its really anoying when you meet stamina tank which can block almost endlessly and switch to two handed and he hits as hard as you with full magica dps set... Its just wtf...

kijima · May 2015

Mayrael wrote: »

I hope so, cause its really anoying when you meet stamina tank which can block almost endlessly and switch to two handed and he hits as hard as you with full magica dps set... Its just wtf...

I seem dem blockin, I be pheerin.

trimsic_ESO · May 2015

You don't have to care much. Magicka still rules the world in Cyrodiil.

Zsymon · May 2015

Garion wrote: »

Because ZOS very obviously want stamina builds to rule the world.

Lol, we said the same thing about magicka builds not long ago. I think it's quite obvious that ZOS doesn't want either magicka or stamina builds be to stronger than the other, it is just difficult to balance. Right now though the strength of stamina builds is being grossly exaggerated, magicka builds are still stronger almost all of the time, not everyone wants to be a Bosmer Nightblade.

Zsymon · May 2015

Deleted.

Baphomet · May 2015

Granted, there still are a lot of things to address balance-wise, but this was just to bring to light one aspect of the equation, so to speak. Speccing for physical mitigation should be just as easy as speccing for magical/elemental mitigation.

Just wanted to bring this particular bit up because with the introduction of nirnhoned (even though a change is coming, I've heard), it is easy to assume that the devs are still oblivious about the power of stamina builds and suffering from the illusion that magicka builds are still too strong - which a few are in some cases, not arguing with that, and that also has to be addressed too, of course.

Snit · May 2015

It's part of the general overcorrection towards stam builds.

Surfinginhawaii · May 2015

F7sus4 wrote: »

That was my first thought when I saw Light/Medium/Heavy Armor Focus CP passives.

The best boost is being received by that type of armor that already provides the best defense (Heavy), while the weakest armor that needs it the most gets close to nothing (Light).

Doing some math, +15% bonus with approx. 25000 Armor (Heavy Armor) is +3750. That's massive. And +15% bonus on 2500 Armor (Light Armor), which gives +375 is... well, just laughable and utterly not worth wasting your 100 Champion Points. With just 20 invested it's gonna be 0,00...% additional damage mitigation, ergo - not worth it.

@F7sus4 , this is very good information! What are the numbers with medium armor? Is it worth putting CP points into medium armor or will the results be like light armor, non-existent? Thanks!

Septimus_Magna · May 2015

I think the idea behind this is that LA and MA builds should rely on active abilities to mitigate damage.

LA builds have benefits towards magicka skills to mitigate damage, shields or self-heals for example.
MA builds have benefits towards stamina abilities to mitigate damage, dodging, rally/vigor or blocking for example.
HA builds have the highest passive mitigation but they have little benefits towards active skills, only block cost reduction.

Each armor type has viable builds but some classes work a lot better with certain armor types than others.

florian.billeb16_ESO · May 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

LA builds have benefits towards magicka skills to mitigate damage, shields or self-heals for example.
MA builds have benefits towards stamina abilities to mitigate damage, dodging, rally/vigor or blocking for example.
HA builds have the highest passive mitigation but they have little benefits towards active skills, only block cost reduction.

The main problem is not here. but in fact
1) you have some champion point to reduce the damage of magicka attack
2) you have some champion point go have more physical / magical damage
with a lot of champion point, a stamina player (and with nirn), can reduce too much magicka attack, when a magicka player can't really reduce stamina attack.

So more and more champion in the game, more and more stamina will have a huge advantage.

R0M2K · May 2015

There CP to increase armor, aka, physycal resist.

florian.billeb16_ESO · May 2015

R0M2K wrote: »

There CP to increase armor, aka, physycal resist.

Right, but the problem is the same

you have CP to have more physical damage versus CP to have more armor
you have CP to have more magicka damage versus Cp to have more magicka

but it's just not the same thing.
1 CP in light armor dont do the same than 1 cp point in magicka resistance.

Wreuntzylla · May 2015

It has to do with the amount of spell penetration you can get in the game.

Varicite · May 2015

Baphomet wrote: »

We have "hardy" and "elemental" defender which easily reduces damage of pratically all magical attacks with a very little investment. Why isn't there a counterpart for regular physical damage?

It's so easy to take 6-10% damage off fire, frost, shock, magic, poison and disease dmg, but you have to invest tons and tons of CP in armor focus for a very, very minor physical mitigation.

Shouldn't there be an equal to "hardy" and elemental defender" for physical damage, which already out dps magic by a good margin?

Most likely for the same reason that there is no stamina regen Mundus stone, while there is Atronach for Magicka regen.

Pure oversight.

Valymer · May 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

We have "hardy" and "elemental" defender which easily reduces damage of pratically all magical attacks with a very little investment. Why isn't there a counterpart for regular physical damage?

It's so easy to take 6-10% damage off fire, frost, shock, magic, poison and disease dmg, but you have to invest tons and tons of CP in armor focus for a very, very minor physical mitigation.

Shouldn't there be an equal to "hardy" and elemental defender" for physical damage, which already out dps magic by a good margin?

Most likely for the same reason that there is no stamina regen Mundus stone, while there is Atronach for Magicka regen.

Pure oversight.

I always wondered if that was a compromise...as there is a weapon damage Mundus but no spell damage one.

Varicite · May 2015

Valymer wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

We have "hardy" and "elemental" defender which easily reduces damage of pratically all magical attacks with a very little investment. Why isn't there a counterpart for regular physical damage?

It's so easy to take 6-10% damage off fire, frost, shock, magic, poison and disease dmg, but you have to invest tons and tons of CP in armor focus for a very, very minor physical mitigation.

Shouldn't there be an equal to "hardy" and elemental defender" for physical damage, which already out dps magic by a good margin?

Most likely for the same reason that there is no stamina regen Mundus stone, while there is Atronach for Magicka regen.

Pure oversight.

I always wondered if that was a compromise...as there is a weapon damage Mundus but no spell damage one.

Nah, when asked why there was no Stamina regen Mundus in the game, the dev answer was basically: "Hmm, it does seem like there should be one, huh? Maybe we will add one in the future."

Edit: Found quote

ZOS_JasonLeavey wrote: »

Sheezabeast: Curious minds want to know...well at least mine....why do we have no Mundus stone for Stamina Regen?
You make a fair point; it makes sense to have stamina regeneration stones since the atronach gives magicka regeneration. This is something we’ll look into further.

Source: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1760019/#Comment_1760019

Valymer · May 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

We have "hardy" and "elemental" defender which easily reduces damage of pratically all magical attacks with a very little investment. Why isn't there a counterpart for regular physical damage?

It's so easy to take 6-10% damage off fire, frost, shock, magic, poison and disease dmg, but you have to invest tons and tons of CP in armor focus for a very, very minor physical mitigation.

Shouldn't there be an equal to "hardy" and elemental defender" for physical damage, which already out dps magic by a good margin?

Most likely for the same reason that there is no stamina regen Mundus stone, while there is Atronach for Magicka regen.

Pure oversight.

I always wondered if that was a compromise...as there is a weapon damage Mundus but no spell damage one.

Nah, when asked why there was no Stamina regen Mundus in the game, the dev answer was basically: "Hmm, it does seem like there should be one, huh? Maybe we will add one in the future."

Edit: Found quote

ZOS_JasonLeavey wrote: »

Sheezabeast: Curious minds want to know...well at least mine....why do we have no Mundus stone for Stamina Regen?
You make a fair point; it makes sense to have stamina regeneration stones since the atronach gives magicka regeneration. This is something we’ll look into further.

Source: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1760019/#Comment_1760019

lol...I knew I was giving them too much credit