rajaniemiorama_ESO wrote: »

ZoS only had a protection in this content when the game was in closed beta. Once it went live they openly dropped that protection. Do what you want.

Any idea where the official statement is located?

Bouvin wrote: »

Most likely ends up on how you want to use it.

If you want to use screenshots for news or editorial it's probably fine.

If you want to use them for advertising or other business agendas, you'd probably have an issue.

I'm pretty sure in the end they own the IP because they can argue the screenshot is a reproduction of their art.

And no, it's not the same as taking photo in public. It's more like taking someone else's photo and making a vector art poster out of it...you'd need permission to use their IP, even if creating something different in the end.

Its a huge legal debate, that's why I'm hoping ZoS has a public statement.

Here is a nice read on the issue for those interested:

http://www.ren-reynolds.com/downloads/RReynolds-MMORPG-IPR.htm

That's why I am hoping ZoS has a publically posted clear statement with their stance so we can follow the established rules and not get into legal problems.

freespirit wrote: »

Might be somewhere in this lot

http://www.zenimax.com/legal_terms_us

Read it apparently they claim rights to all content even user generated content. So I guess if you cartoon a catman and they can articulate that it is a khajiit then it would defacto belong to them. Seems they also prohibit all redistribution unless expressly authorized in writing.

Bouvin wrote: »

Most likely ends up on how you want to use it.

If you want to use screenshots for news or editorial it's probably fine.

If you want to use them for advertising or other business agendas, you'd probably have an issue.

I'm pretty sure in the end they own the IP because they can argue the screenshot is a reproduction of their art.

And no, it's not the same as taking photo in public. It's more like taking someone else's photo and making a vector art poster out of it...you'd need permission to use their IP, even if creating something different in the end.

News or editorial would fall under fair use I think. But it seems screenshot would fall under derivative? But what about like for instance in programming derivitive work is very different.

Audigy wrote: »

The games content is protected by copyright law. If you distribute said content without permission, you break the law. That said, companies be it music or gaming, allow you to distribute your content as long you do not make money with it. This includes monetizing by YT and donations which are considered OK, by most companies.

As soon you however sell your screenshots on a famous picture selling point or in theory your shooted video on Amazon, their lawyers will sue you.

See that's a really grey area. I wish they would specify what users can and cannot do with specific examples of authorized and unauthorized activities

Faugaun wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

Might be somewhere in this lot

http://www.zenimax.com/legal_terms_us

Read it apparently they claim rights to all content even user generated content. So I guess if you cartoon a catman and they can articulate that it is a khajiit then it would defacto belong to them. Seems they also prohibit all redistribution unless expressly authorized in writing.

Bouvin wrote: »

Most likely ends up on how you want to use it.

If you want to use screenshots for news or editorial it's probably fine.

If you want to use them for advertising or other business agendas, you'd probably have an issue.

I'm pretty sure in the end they own the IP because they can argue the screenshot is a reproduction of their art.

And no, it's not the same as taking photo in public. It's more like taking someone else's photo and making a vector art poster out of it...you'd need permission to use their IP, even if creating something different in the end.

News or editorial would fall under fair use I think. But it seems screenshot would fall under derivative? But what about like for instance in programming derivitive work is very different.

Audigy wrote: »

The games content is protected by copyright law. If you distribute said content without permission, you break the law. That said, companies be it music or gaming, allow you to distribute your content as long you do not make money with it. This includes monetizing by YT and donations which are considered OK, by most companies.

As soon you however sell your screenshots on a famous picture selling point or in theory your shooted video on Amazon, their lawyers will sue you.

See that's a really grey area. I wish they would specify what users can and cannot do with specific examples of authorized and unauthorized activities

@ZOS_KaiSchober actually replied to that specific question of yours in the German Forum, I tried to look the thread up but without much success.
However, he said that you are allowed to record videos, take pictures etc. but that you are not allowed to make money with it and that it must be freely available to those watching. My interpretation is, that you can not ask people for money to see your videos, but that you can monetize your video on YT & Twitch.

Maybe he or someone else from ZOS can explain this further.

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

There is just one general rule to follow:

1. Don't try to make money off of ESO.

And you're safe

I'd think that they want streamers and even addon authors to make money. It gives them an incentive to be associated with ESO and enhances gameplay directly or indirectly for other ESO gamers.

But they probably wouldn't let you take a screenshot of the game and let you use it as a label on a candy bar or a bar of soap that you were planning to sell nationwide unless they were getting a cut. ZeniMax the parent company of ZOS is known for its lawsuits to protect their intellectual property.

This seems logical, but what if the streamer somewhere else said something that ZoS didn't appreciate? Then by streaming videos which are not his copyright the company could take legal action against him/her and put the hurt on so to speak. This just opens a lost of people up to potential problems in the future without clear public guidelines that specify what we are and are not allowed to do. With what I have seen so far I would be terrified to post a stream, which as you point out is often good free advertising for ZoS.

@Audigy Thanks I'll attempt the German forum also.

@everyoneelse thanks for the responses, it's Monday morning so they should be hitting the forums soon maybe a green will poke their head in and clarify things.

My specific concerns (but there are many others that really need to be clarified) are: can I utilize without fear of adverse actions, screenshots, modified screen shots in the form of comics strip type material, streamed video or any other user generated content in the following circumstances: on the ESO official forums, on third party websites not controlled by me, on websites controlled by me and does the presence or absence of advertising on the same page make a difference?

For instance I make calculators for the champion system based on data obtained in game, I derive formulas that model the data (these formulas are certainly my IP since I created them) however I an interested in using cropped (modified, derivative work) images which would display the tooltip description for what the skills are advertised to do.

Similar to other websites (these are not mine):

http://esohead.com/items/44481-prismatic-blade

http://tamrielfoundry.com/dungeon-sets/

Or for instance to post a screenshot on these forums I must paste the image URL, since I cannot upload the image directly to ESO servers and get a URL then I must put the image at some other location on the web....this creates the problem of distribution as now all of a sudden I am responsible for the distribution of the photo as the person who uploaded the image. Further the company/individual who owns and operates the website it is loaded at could also potentially be responsible for distribution.

I think much of the fanbase are not trying to cause harm to the game and much of this material is way more beneficial for ZoS than harmful. However, without clear guidelines regarding what is and is not authorized by zos these fans/players etc.. Are potentially knowingly or unknowingly putting themselves at legal risk.

What is OK?
At what point should someone seek written permission?
Who is authorized to give said permission? Any zos employee? Only the lawyer? The CEO?
What is the process to inquire in writing about said permission?

Obviously just because others do something doesn't mean you can. They may have permission or they may be illegally doing the activity.

Rant over...

Enodoc wrote: »

I can't help with the pure legal status, but I can say what we do on UESP. For example, here is a screenshot I took in-game and uploaded to UESP:

This is accompanied on the upload page with the following licensing text:
This image was created for use on UESP using components taken from the Elder Scrolls series of video games or from websites created and owned by ZeniMax Online Studios. The copyright for the components is held by ZeniMax Online Studios while the copyright for this particular composition is held by UESP. It is available for use under the same Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License as our text content. For further details, see our copyright policy.

Also on UESP, we have a number of in-game icons that are used within the appropriate and relative contexts, such as the Veteran icon:

This is accompanied on the upload page with a different license:
This image was taken from the Elder Scrolls series of video games or from websites created and owned by ZeniMax Online Studios, the copyright of which is held by ZeniMax Online Studios. All trademarks and registered trademarks present in the image are proprietary to ZeniMax Online Studios, the inclusion of which implies no affiliation with the UESP. The use of images to illustrate articles concerning the subject of the images in question is believed to fall under the fair dealing clause of Canadian copyright law.

Note that UESP also contains advertising.

That is actually (I think) a decent approach and thanks for sharing!

Leggi wrote: »

What about edited material?
Example. I'm making ingame panoramas. Not only ESO, any good looking game. So it's edited in special software, used montage. Does ZOS still have copyright?
Just like the following one:

P.S. Bigger if clicked

Yeah I would say so. Like my UESP one, ZOS would hold copyright for all the components within the image, but the composition itself is yours. Amazing picture, by the way

Really wish ZoS would chime in, mayb e give us webmasters some clear guidelines and perhaps similar to our affiliate marketing relationships a clear guide of what we should state in our own disclaimers ... For instance I have to disclose that I use cookies (I don't but the people who put ads on my pages do). I mean look at any affiliate or advertising program that webmasters can sign up for...there are usually clear guidelines on what they can use, who owns what, what disclaimers must be made etc...

The system is easiest if the company, ZoS in this case (who have lawyers on retainer) set their own guidelines and then webmasters can either agree and produce the content or disagree and find something else to write about. Webmasters and the likes are generally used to following specific guidelines from multiple sources. It would be nice to have ZoS take the lead and outline, clearly, in English and in writing what they expect. This is beneficial to not only ZoS and WebMasters but also to players who utilize the webmasters services to post screenshots or other items which at current is a huge gray area.

Webmasters provide added value to ZoS' product ...usually. ZoS should support their webmasters. Same with non-webmaster active user generated content creators...like in the rp community there are many players who actively provide free positive advertising in the form of reviews, or fan art, or videos etc...

I'll tell you all what a copyright law teacher told me:

Unless you have been given permission in writing (in this case from ZOS) any videos, pictures, etc you upload or use is violation of copyright.

There is no stance. Either you get express written permission, or your liable to be sued. Perhaps they will wait 5, 10, 15 years, maybe more, maybe less, maybe never. The only way to be 100% certain you wont get sued is to get permission from ZOS, in writing.

All those folks putting videos up on Youtube, I'd suggest contacting ZOS and getting a written statement of permission or else pull your videos down. Anyone trusting a company not to comeback and sue you down the line does so at their own peril.

Of course ZeniMax is dodging an official answer because they gave themselves a black eye the moment they went after John Carmack for alleged IP theft of vague "proprietary technology."

ZeniMax feels like the kind of company who will claim that any thoughts you have while playing their games are their property, so I would get permission in writing to use unaltered (resized only) screenshots for a certain purpose (informative, entertainment, etc). You probably don't need it - writing The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited (Copyright 2014-15 ZeniMax Media Inc.) under a screenshot should be sufficient in making sure everyone knows what it is and who it belongs to.

But I don't trust ZeniMax, so get it in writing. Or do what I do - every time you think about writing something about TESO outside the forum, stop and write something about any other subject instead.

danno816_ESO wrote: »

There are some exceptions to this. For instance there was a fan who remade the worlds of LotR using the same engine that was used in Oblivion.

That is not an exception, that is using game resources to make another game. There is a clear legal and logical path to showing reduced revenue to the originating company if something like this got out. Not to mention the hit on reputation if the project sucked. BGS has a very clear stance on using other game's resources, even ones they made before, in any other game, including the ones they make now. Modders are not allowed at all to use any other game resources in their mods, even to the point of using Oblivion resources in say Skyrim.

This is not the same at all as posting a screen shot/video and saying, look at this or talk about this or here is some information that can help you play the game or here is this cool thing I did in this game.

Nestor wrote: »

danno816_ESO wrote: »

There are some exceptions to this. For instance there was a fan who remade the worlds of LotR using the same engine that was used in Oblivion.

That is not an exception, that is using game resources to make another game. There is a clear legal and logical path to showing reduced revenue to the originating company if something like this got out. Not to mention the hit on reputation if the project sucked. BGS has a very clear stance on using other game's resources, even ones they made before, in any other game, including the ones they make now. Modders are not allowed at all to use any other game resources in their mods, even to the point of using Oblivion resources in say Skyrim.

This is not the same at all as posting a screen shot/video and saying, look at this or talk about this or here is some information that can help you play the game or here is this cool thing I did in this game.

And there is a world of gray area in the middle of those two examples...

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We can help clarify this. (For your own peace of mind, the info below was vetted by our legal team.)

Bethesda Softworks®, and ZeniMax® Online Studios ultimately own the copyrights and trademarks for The Elder Scrolls Online®: Tamriel Unlimited™, and anything related to it. Everything mentioned in the first post sounds fine. Generally speaking, we're fine with fan creations and even enjoy sharing them, but there are a few things to watch out for. Here are some key points:

• Creations using our IP or assets must be in accordance with our Terms of Service, Code of Conduct and Privacy Policy, all of which are linked to on our website.
• Don't use anything related to The Elder Scrolls IP in such a way that would be considered inappropriate (vulgar, obscene, pornographic, etc.) or damaging to the IP.
• Don't claim anything related to The Elder Scrolls IP as your own original creation. It should include all copyright, trademark, and other legal notices related to The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited, Bethesda Softworks, and ZeniMax Online Studios.
• Don't use anything related to The Elder Scrolls IP for monetary gain or in a commercial context. In short, if you create something using The Elder Scrolls IP, you may not sell it or otherwise use it for monetary gain.

Everything you mention here makes a pretty strong case to never let Angry Joe EVER play a Zenimax Online Studios game again. He damaged the IP, used images from ESO but offered no trademarking, and ultimately used his video as click bait to promote his own Channel. Too bad this wasn't a legally binding contract that would allow civil suit =s