Once Again, Without a Combat Log PvP Rage Will Continue.

Schurge · April 2015

I was here at the beginning and quit the game within a few weeks because the PvP - while good - wasn't good enough to justify the Vet. Grind. A very common complaint through Beta and launch was the lack of a Combat Log. ZOS said that they didn't want people to play the UI (as if any PvPer worth his salt ever played the UI). I remember saying then there would be a lot less complaining about PvP if players actually knew what killed them. All we knew was we died instantly, and without a Combat Log there was no way to figure out why.

I've come back, started on the Vet. grind. Today I took a break from that to PvP at Vet. rank 4. I see they've added the ability to see the last five things that hit you... and I am sorry but that is just not enough. I primarily play PvP focused games and I have never seen as much whining and calls for nerfs as what exists on these forums... and frankly I think it is all justified. Now all we know is we got hit by three wrecking blows or a 10k crystal shard and without more information it is justified to think that all the classes are over-powered.

There will always be whining, but there would be a lot less of it if it was easier to see the math behind it. We need a combat log with time stamps and a break down of the total damage for each hit, with a sub-total of what was mitigated and what ignored mitigation. It also needs to keep track of what debuffs are on you. All of these things have been industry standard for years and won't be hard to implement.

A 10k crystal shard seems a lot less over-powered if you can see it was actually a critical hit and that you only mitigated 5% of the damage and need to take a look at your gear. Time stamps are especially critical... if you have five wrecking blows it is justified to pull out the torches but if you see that they were over a period of fifteen seconds obviously you are doing something wrong on your end.

I am tempted to rage about sorcerers... I have little difficulty killing Dragon Knights and Nightblades but when a Sorcerer has a shield up it seems I literally do zero damage. I am not going to complain though because I have no idea how the shields work, and it is entirely possible that they mitigate damage as well as act as a second healthbar and then that is just a case of me not being strong enough yet or needing to spec more into penetration. A combat log would give me the answers I need and there will be a lot less complaining when people know what is going on (and any complaints about real imbalance will be validated because know all of the other variables to take into consideration).

I know Zenimax has been emphatic in the past about wanting to keep the game immersive... Well, you also promised lots of new content and now with BTP and Pets in the Crown Store it might be time to swallow your pride and make this MMO playable. There is very strong competition (and a few wild cards) coming up in the next couple years in the world PVP market... it is time to make some changes.

As an addendum, I would like to pre-emptively respond to the PVE'rs who say dungeons will be ruined and casuals won't find groups... Well if your guild won't play with you find another one or get gudd.

Wreuntzylla · April 2015

I couldn't read the wall of text, but you had me at the title. Good job.

olsborg · April 2015

Combat Log Statistic, its an addon and I love it.

ToRelax · April 2015

olsborg wrote: »

Combat Log Statistic, its an addon and I love it.

Yes - but neither should something like a combat log be only available via addon, nor does it show you what actually hit you. In addition to that, it's not very reliable, often does not show hits as crit when they were crits, show magicka restoring skills as heals, etc.

Itoq · April 2015

I think that you, OP, make a great point.

However, even if you had a log many, if not most, of the aural and visual cues of combat are lackluster to missing altogether on the receiving end. I would argue that real time information is more important than post-play information. Players also get pissed and don't learn much when they don't see or hear much of the stuff that kills them.

Additionally, there are also netcode issues that have bad side effects such as multiple attacks piling up into one second and bad designs such as the stun-lock/perma-stun issue, one to two hits kills and the damage/survivability gap between good builds/gear/cp to bad builds/gear/cp being way too big which all further complicate the learning curve.

In short, I would argue that there are many fixes that would lower player rage and improve player understanding more than logs.

Schurge · April 2015

Itoq wrote: »

I think that you, OP, make a great point.

However, even if you had a log many, if not most, of the aural and visual cues of combat are lackluster to missing altogether on the receiving end. I would argue that real time information is more important than post-play information. Players also get pissed and don't learn much when they don't see or hear much of the stuff that kills them.

Additionally, there are also netcode issues that have bad side effects such as multiple attacks piling up into one second and bad designs such as the stun-lock/perma-stun issue, one to two hits kills and the damage/survivability gap between good builds/gear/cp to bad builds/gear/cp being way too big which all further complicate the learning curve.

In short, I would argue that there are many fixes that would lower player rage and improve player understanding more than logs.

I also died to a critical rush and three wrecking blows even though on my screen I was just critical rushed. I've also been killed by melee attacks from multiple sources even though there was only one enemy on my screen. I also am unable to see a lot of the spell projectiles, but I was assuming that was a problem on my end. The power supply on my desktop needs replaced so I've been using a laptop not meant for gaming.

Dreizopf · April 2015

olsborg wrote: »

Combat Log Statistic, its an addon and I love it.

I dont know, how good this addon works, but I think, that no console-player can use any addon including this one.

So Zenimax has to work on their GUI at all. Otherwise this forum will get flooded by comments from console-players unable to handle the GUI in a modern manner.

Oughash · April 2015

A combat log should have been in the game since day one.

The addon Combat Log Statistic is not good enough.

Daenerys · April 2015

Any immersive argument went out the window with the intrusive advertising. I too use CLS, but also feel that I shouldn't have to- it should just be in game! Yet another example of them relying on addon devs to do their job, without pay or thanks.

helediron · April 2015

CLS tries to do its best, but ZOS hides essential details from addons. They had that information in beta but hid it in fear of macro exploits. In beta CLS reported that X hit you with Y for Z. Now it can only report you were hit for Z. They must either restore the addon API or make the log into the game.

The_Death_Princess · April 2015

They should make it like any other games, off line to text file if you want. That way you can review your situation, and improve. Any macroing of an offline txt file would be in violation of TOS (due to 3rd party parsing) and then could be banned. I stopped using CLS, cause really, damage floaters does just as much.