What I want... is your SOUL! Muhahahahah!

Qellian · April 2015

*evil coorperation song ends* ahhem... hi there, i like to discuiss something that bothered me from the start, and that only get stronger after i complated main quest in the game... Namely: *spoiler alert: spoiler alert* getting back your soul *spoiler alert: spoiler alert*

Perhaps it is simply my lack of understanding, or perhaps i'm quite damn right, and story department overlooked it... Or perhaps its intentional, i'll speak these thoughts in the minute, but for those who still havent finish the main quest: *looks in the eye* it is ill advised for you folks to continue in this thread. Yes you... We don't serve yar kind here, m'kay?

First i like to ask... What the oblivion is a soul? Is it what defines us? is it what makes us wonder? is it what influence our actions for good? (this one is a bit too disneyish, i agree) Or is it what grants us power? ability bend to reality in lesser degree trough its divine essence? Lo! Take head my words traveler, because i say, it is none of these things! And i have no idea what it does actualy. How am i concluded this? I'm getting to that good sirs and ladies, i'm getting to that...

If you look at all the adventurers as the Vestige, specialy big regional quests that's resolve around how you save your entire faction at the map you're in, without a soul, we don't have any disadvantages compare to a normal human or elven being... Fine, or beast folk being, whatever...
There was one set back though...*dilulululululuuuu flashbacks*

Prophet "But first... We must attune yourself to nirn again... oooohh shard of Aetherus, fall upon us and anoint us with thy blessing! There! Yup, it wasnt a big deal at all, now just channel at the damn thing so we can get out of this horrible, horrible place..."

And that's that... Bam! We were in nirn again, without problem, and mind you, some soulshrivens didnt even need that like *cough* cadwell *cough*.

In fact i digress, it we being without a Soul was our advtange troughout the ENTIRE game... Not we were only has no penalty compare to a person with a soul, we had advantages such as "only a soulless person can lift that axe", "only a soulless person could survive that spell", "only a soulless person could what do that" here and there, heck we even been able to use amulet of kings at its full potential without burned away thanks to our condition.

So... i like to ask now... shouldn't we all get rid of our souls? With its soul gems we could have charge our night lambs as well, right? What is a soul in elder scrolls universe, and what do you think of ESO's take on the subject? Do you think souls are good? Bad? What is a re sell value of a level 50 adventurer's soul? Tell me! Tell me everything!

ps: sorry for long post, i'm very sick at the moment... horrible flu... i feel like i'll pass out quite often when i get up... so since i'm stucked here, behind my blankets, entertain me! or'll die of boredom! pleaseeee... =/

sadownik · April 2015

Oh its even more cuirous. We all have no souls, yet we are able to learn to make our soul explode - skill soul shatter. Does it mean that we actualy have soul, adn all that souless issue is just a foul plan to make us run all across the Tamriel to get back what we never lost? Is it metaphore?

Betahkiin · April 2015

The nature of the soul is not knowable. Every wizard that has attempted it vanishes without a trace. What can be known is that souls are a source of mystic energy that can be harvested.

Every creature, living or dead, is powered by a soul. Without it, they are just lumps of flesh or piles of bones. This animating force can be contained within a soul gem, if the soul gem has the capacity. From the gem, the power can be used to power magical items.

Centuries of experimentation has demonstrated that there are black souls and white souls. Only the rare black soul gem can hold the soul of a higher creature, such as a man or an elf. While the souls of lesser creatures can be captured by gems of many colors, they are all categorized as white soul gems. Hence the division of souls into black and white.

White souls are far safer than black souls, although not as powerful. Beginning students of Mysticism should not dabble in black souls or black soul gems. Even if one were to ignore the guild strictures against the necromatic arts used to power black soul gems, it is dangerous to the caster to handle them for long. If the gem is not precisely the size of the encased soul, small bits of the caster's soul may leak into the gem when it is touched.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Souls,_Black_and_White

SHADOW2KK · April 2015

Soul Assault...

Nice thread OP, interesting wee read

Qellian · April 2015

-Betahkiin
I'm familir with the entry but it doesn't cover almost anything that we experienced as the Vestige now isn't?. Should I pust another disclaimer that says "hang in this post at on your risk, you may vanish without a trace"? Is it what you're implying though? You can't block the arcane scientific progress sir!

-SHADOW2KK
feel free to share your arcanist opinion no matter the degree of your practice, this is a silly and academic place, its safe zone.

bellanca6561n · April 2015

SHADOW2KK · April 2015

Qellian wrote: »

-Betahkiin
I'm familir with the entry but it doesn't cover almost anything that we experienced as the Vestige now isn't?. Should I pust another disclaimer that says "hang in this post at on your risk, you may vanish without a trace"? Is it what you're implying though? You can't block the arcane scientific progress sir!

-SHADOW2KK
feel free to share your arcanist opinion no matter the degree of your practice, this is a silly and academic place, its safe zone.

Haha, I don`t really have anything to share at this point in time, I am by nature a warrior in game and real life, and have a natural mistrust of all things magical, but may at a later time have something to contribute to this arcane discussion.

Betahkiin · April 2015

Qellian wrote: »

-Betahkiin
I'm familir with the entry but it doesn't cover almost anything that we experienced as the Vestige now isn't?. Should I pust another disclaimer that says "hang in this post at on your risk, you may vanish without a trace"? Is it what you're implying though? You can't block the arcane scientific progress sir!

-SHADOW2KK
feel free to share your arcanist opinion no matter the degree of your practice, this is a silly and academic place, its safe zone.

As written, apparently nothing concerning the Vestige ..... makes sense.

Basing on the scriptures, a soulless being could not crossing a third of Tamriel killing right and left, making choices between good and evil and raise a flag of loyalty to his faction.

Now we can divide the soul of consciousness.

We could say that the soul is the fuel that drives our body, while consciousness is the decision maker.

By losing the soul we are able to make decisions, but we still need the vital energy to carry them out.

This is where you, the vestige would enter in the scene, fulfilled prophecy, the exception to the rule that the ancient scrolls were able to predict.

Lacking a soul you are able to move forward.

How?

Well, it could be the ability to absorb vital energy from the environment.

Could also be the ability to act as a reservoir for someone else to channel vital energy in us, perhaps the prophet who visits us in the cell at the beginning of our adventure.

Maybe losing the soul the main source of vital energy is lost, but not all, perhaps a remnant left that allows to perform basic functions such as moving and speaking and in the case of our hero this reservoir exceeds the norm being sufficient to reveal the captivity and give battle to the enemy in search of liberation.

But they are just a few of many possible theories and speculations ...

Qellian · April 2015

perhaps by runing around wild and gathering shards trough the tamriel we're forging ourselves a somewhat soul? thus being able to cast our spells, (after all, all classes has access to spells, with intresting edges too, templar is a paladin that has source of power unexpleined, it isnt clerical though, perhaps psionic?, and dragon knight almost bordering dovahkiins, nightblade as an arcanist that constantly energy vampire people actualy makes sense for a soulles person, but they drain vitality, not magicka. and sorcerer is our classic reality bender spell caster's mmo representations, that conjures, and blast)

also perhaps most of our responses to things are quite two dimensional, because we lacked a soul (you know =P railroading here and there) but even joke aside, that doesn't change once we get our soul back.
That what creates most confusion i believe... Being without a soul has no impact, fair enough, but getting your soul back doesn't either...
Jokes aside i mean it is obvious that things, story wise not %100 connected, such as with Meridia's gift, we continue our journey in tamriel with 'what if' concept, as what if we werent start at the place we started, but even though at that point we allready claimed our souls, we still finish some quests because 'we don't have a soul and thus that artefact/spell didnt affect us'. Which makes even harder to detect the properities of a soul...

Betahkiin · April 2015

Qellian wrote: »

perhaps by runing around wild and gathering shards trough the tamriel we're forging ourselves a somewhat soul? thus being able to cast our spells, (after all, all classes has access to spells, with intresting edges too, templar is a paladin that has source of power unexpleined, it isnt clerical though, perhaps psionic?, and dragon knight almost bordering dovahkiins, nightblade as an arcanist that constantly energy vampire people actualy makes sense for a soulles person, but they drain vitality, not magicka. and sorcerer is our classic reality bender spell caster's mmo representations, that conjures, and blast)

also perhaps most of our responses to things are quite two dimensional, because we lacked a soul (you know =P railroading here and there) but even joke aside, that doesn't change once we get our soul back.
That what creates most confusion i believe... Being without a soul has no impact, fair enough, but getting your soul back doesn't either...
Jokes aside i mean it is obvious that things, story wise not %100 connected, such as with Meridia's gift, we continue our journey in tamriel with 'what if' concept, as what if we werent start at the place we started, but even though at that point we allready claimed our souls, we still finish some quests because 'we don't have a soul and thus that artefact/spell didnt affect us'. Which makes even harder to detect the properities of a soul...

Or perhaps our special gift is consumed to complete the prophecy ...

We were born endowed with a special power, able to replace the vital energy of our soul should lose.

When retrieving the soul, the replacement energy leaves our body giving rise to the original.

That's our gift.

We are able to remain unchanged at the loss of our soul, the question is that many times we can do?

The other question is, when a player dies in the game, we are able to revive him with a charged gem soul.

But it is assumed that the soul of our gem is not the same that the player lost.

Same when we die and someone raise us with a Soul Gem.

They fill our bodies with a different soul.

Therefore, it is rare that one runs the main story behind his soul when actually playing then, we will lose infinity times and we will be reloaded with different souls.

What is the role of generic soul and personal one?

What differences exist between the personal soul and other captured in a gemstone?

Clearly, being filled with an generic gem has no impact on our player, so I reached this point, have to fight to regain our own soul does not make sense ....

Qellian · April 2015

Resurrection via a soul shard doesn't nessecerly implies that we're getting filled with another soul but perhaps, it requires that that amount of energy (appropiate level (size) of a soul gem filled energy) is simply required to mend our teared body and re connect our conscience with our body. In another word as a focus for the 'spell' that resurrects us.
Since such applications are common in tamriel. I always felt a bit weird about that side of the Elder Scroll universe actualy. Some soul trapments and magicial item makings also traps the concious of the creature that its soul stolen, but that's rarely the case. We mostly use other being souls as a *shows a duracell batter to screen with an uncanny smile* as this...
(Uuuu! We should make a matrix crossover!)

But that's an intresting take as well.

Betahkiin · April 2015

Qellian wrote: »

Resurrection via a soul shard doesn't nessecerly implies that we're getting filled with another soul but perhaps, it requires that that amount of energy (appropiate level (size) of a soul gem filled energy) is simply required to mend our teared body and re connect our conscience with our body. In another word as a focus for the 'spell' that resurrects us.
Since such applications are common in tamriel. I always felt a bit weird about that side of the Elder Scroll universe actualy. Some soul trapments and magicial item makings also traps the concious of the creature that its soul stolen, but that's rarely the case. We mostly use other being souls as a *shows a duracell batter to screen with an uncanny smile* as this...
(Uuuu! We should make a matrix crossover!)

But that's an intresting take as well.

But to die in the game, when channeled with a soul gem, or use one of our inventory did not get up so corporea.

A spectral figure of our character stands, which could clearly be the new soul infused, or own at death remained floating in the vicinity and seeing that our body gets energy returns to claim it as their own.

But none of this is officially clarified.

Qellian · April 2015

Let's see what day light crew will say about the subject, and who knows (though i don't have high hopes for that occurance) perhaps someone responsible from story department shows up and says few things.

Shunravi · April 2015

Qellian wrote: »

Let's see what day light crew will say about the subject, and who knows (though i don't have high hopes for that occurance) perhaps someone responsible from story department shows up and says few things.

*nudge nudge* @Lawrence_Schick *nudge nudge*

Qellian · April 2015

*your nudge seems to be uneffected* quick! use something that'll lower his defence and try again!

Betahkiin · April 2015

Qellian wrote: »

*your nudge seems to be uneffected* quick! use something that'll lower his defence and try again!

The portal was opened my lord ....

Just waiting for the master Lawrence appears ...

Rune_Relic · April 2015

Perhaps the user provides the soul....unlike all other other NPCs.

arena25 · April 2015

Ugh...i can't take this anymore...mods! Help me make sense of all this!

Enodoc · April 2015

Every creature, living or dead, is powered by a soul. Without it, they are just lumps of flesh or piles of bones.
This is definitely the important starting point. Soul Shriven, since they do not have their souls, are instead animated by a Vestige (hence The Prophet's name for you) which takes on the form you had in life. The "body" of a Soul Shriven is not their original body; rather, it is formed out of Chaotic Creatia - in Coldharbour, this is the Azure Plasm.

Secondly, Souls are Anuic in origin, while Vestiges are Padomaic. This is why the "Shard of Aetherius" is required - to reattune the Anuic part. Have a read of this paragraph, from Chaotic Creatia: The Azure Plasm: His theory is that the Soul Shriven's bodies are flawed because they have lost the focusing principle of their Anuic souls, so their vestiges are imperfect patterns. I concurred that this was likely, and then proposed the theoretical possibility of a Soul Shriven who, despite having lost his or her soul, possessed some other intrinsic Anuic aspect. This shall-we-say "paragon" Soul Shriven would form an unflawed body in Coldharbour that was a perfect duplicate of the body worn in Mundus. In fact, if this paragon bore a sufficiently high Anuic valence, upon contact with Padomaic creatia its body would form almost instantaneously.

The blue glow on resurrection (either from a soul gem or at a wayshrine) is likely also based on the same effect. A sudden surge of Anuic energy (either the other soul or the Wayshrine's connection to Aetherius) causes the body to reform instantly.

The description of Soul Shatter - "Player's soul explodes on death..." is likely just a mistake/simplification. "Player's vestige of chaotic creatia explodes on death..." may be more accurate, but also more confusing.

For more, see UESP: Souls

Qellian · April 2015

You sir are a master arcanist... I applaud you, so many nice information!

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO · April 2015

The paragon explanation gets me thinking

In Coldharbour, when we encounter Estre, Thallik, and Angof, they all retain the appearance they had in life. Not to mention everybody we find in Heart's Grief. I wonder if there's a rationale as to how they all kept their former appearances. Surely they can't all be paragons?

Enodoc · April 2015

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

The paragon explanation gets me thinking
In Coldharbour, when we encounter Estre, Thallik, and Angof, they all retain the appearance they had in life. Not to mention everybody we find in Heart's Grief. I wonder if there's a rationale as to how they all kept their former appearances. Surely they can't all be paragons?

I think quite simply they're just not Soul Shriven. They still have their souls with them.

Qellian · April 2015

I agree, they weren't soul shriven. in fact whole that tournemant no matter how much rigged were suppose to their get out of jail card, provided they were succeed.