[Devs] Please have a look at Battle Roar

Brizz · February 2015

This is the main reason that Dragon Knights can live for way longer then any other class versus multiple players. When combined with Tripotions, Dragon Knights can have enough stamina to hold block longer then any other class, enough magicka to both reflect attacks, heal, and do damage, and enough health to live against 10+ opponents.

This passive is not very well known to players, and seems to fly below the radar. I think the imbalance players feel against dragon knights isn't their reflect, it isn't their self heal, and it isn't their block, it's their ability to do these things seemingly endlessly.

This is evidenced in many pvp videos like this one, and is compounded 10 fold when a dragon knight becomes emperor and gains double ultimate generation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAzhw2mHAFI

Please address the real problem, because when 1.6 launches without soft caps, Dragon Knights will become kings.

Shadesofkin · February 2015

Keep Battle Roar exactly as it is.

NovaShadow · February 2015

I do agree very much though I don't think they should whack it too hard with the nurf stick.

Panda244 · February 2015

The only reason that passive was semi-OP was because DKs could recharge their ultimates so fast, Battle Roar is fine the way it is. Because the ultimate gen nerf in 1.6 is going to [snip] every DK out there... I'm just glad my build is self-sustaining without ultimate spam

It was OP before 1.6, but with 1.6 DKs won't have their resources topped off in large fights cause they need to be dropping banners endlessly to do it. I don't support the change to ulti gen but it helps balance PvP...

The passive itself is absolutely fine. It's just the fact that DKs could spam their ultimates endlessly like you said. Trust me Briizz, come 1.6 your build will be able to faceroll every DK out there, and you won't have to worry about eight batswarms in 1v1 anymore

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

IxSTALKERxI · February 2015

Have you personally played a DK on PTS? The nerf to ultimate gain is a nerf to that passive already, plus the potions are a 45s cool down now. Also it seems their stamina regen has suffered also.

Brizz wrote: »

Dragon Knights can live for way longer then any other class versus multiple players.

I also disagree with this... NB's can survive much longer then DK's. Being a NB I thought you would know this. :P

Night-claw · February 2015

no no no no enough dk nerf

Shadesofkin · February 2015

Battle Roar is the type of significant passive that sets the class apart aside from skills. It is there because it's a staple of the Dragon Knights. It's already going to be harder to achieve in 1.6, there is no need to directly nerf it, the rebalancing of the game has done that.

eliisra · February 2015

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

I also disagree with this... NB's can survive much longer then DK's. Being a NB I thought you would know this. :P

...and sorcerers can survive even longer, just Bolt Escape all the way back to the keep lol.

But I think the topic is about how DK's actually tank AND kill stuff, when taking on a full raid of pesky milkdrinkers. NB's cant do that, only tank people for a little bit while sapping around. You need to be afk literally, to actual die from NB AoE tank.

Still, I don't see any reasons to mess with Battle Roar either, not with the massive changes to ulti gain in 1.6.

Lionxoft · February 2015

I've played DK on pts and it's at least an ultimate every 30 or so seconds. The problem when they nerf DKs is that they always try to nerf ONE ability to the ground at a time when it's not really the abilities on their own that are the problem. Battle roar is the exception to that rule. Battle Roar = Reset button and needs tweaking.

DK gets incredible sustain because of the passive effects of their abilities and passives. In regards to survivability and sustain, GDB grants stam and health recovery including increased healing while it's active. Whenever you cast your shield or another earthen heart ability you gain 5% stamina. If you let loose an ultimate it's basically a reset button which this update might have changed extremely fast ulti gain however ulti still comes fairly quickly.

I find it silly that they removed the NB catalyst passive entirely and battle roar went untouched.

OtarTheMad · February 2015

Was that video even from pts? Just asking... didn't seem like it.

ssewallb14_ESO · February 2015

Almost all of what allowed that video to happen has been nerfed, either directly or indirectly.

Orchish · February 2015

Posting in the PTS section with a video from 1.5. Good one. Ult gen change is a nerf to DK's as is, banner is nerfed too. Besides, once you actually play on the PTS and test out 1.6 for you self you'll see that every class can stay alive forever with shield stacking. Not to mention stamina now drains so fast when blocking.

Kaghei · February 2015

Brizz wrote: »

Please address the real problem, because when 1.6 launches without soft caps, Dragon Knights will become kings.

lol do you read the patch note?
Ult gain in aoe (or pvp situations) has been nerfed a ton, suddenly its not possible to spam ults, and obviously this is a nerf to all classes, it hurts Dks the most. If dks want to be strong in 1.6 they cannot rely on ult spamming, the whole play style has changed.

If you want to talk about classed being kings, check out sap essence since you are a nb. Unlimited resources....

IxSTALKERxI · February 2015

eliisra wrote: »

You need to be afk literally, to actual die from NB AoE tank.

Not with my broken build on live. :P I'll have to upload a video.

Domander · February 2015

shadesofkinb14_ESO wrote: »

Battle Roar is the type of significant passive that sets the class apart aside from skills. It is there because it's a staple of the Dragon Knights. It's already going to be harder to achieve in 1.6, there is no need to directly nerf it, the rebalancing of the game has done that.

This.

Shadesofkin · February 2015

Lionxoft wrote: »

...Battle Roar = Reset button and needs tweaking.

DK gets incredible sustain because of the passive effects of their abilities and passives. In regards to survivability and sustain, GDB grants stam and health recovery including increased healing while it's active. Whenever you cast your shield or another earthen heart ability you gain 5% stamina. If you let loose an ultimate it's basically a reset button which this update might have changed extremely fast ulti gain however ulti still comes fairly quickly...

Yes, Dragon Knights have some sustainability beyond what might be available to other classes. that doesn't mean it needs tweaking, it means they designed a different class with an entirely different skill set in mind from all the other classes who also have different skill sets from one another. There are enough changes to the class, there are enough changes to the game. Battle Roar should *never* be messed with. Not only because I play a DK and have no desire to see it nerfed yet again, but because it is part of the draconic theme/feel of the class.

I've seen Dragon Knights, with their incredible sustainability , fall to the hands of a teleporting greatsword wielding sorcerer in light armor, a sword and board bashing templar, bursting nightblades and plenty of monsters. It's not as if they're gods among men, they're just a different class that has been designed differently.

Update 6 has already changed enough that Battle Roar isn't the sort of problem its being made out to be in the initial post. Sorry, but no...Battle Roar doesn't need to be touched.

DisgracefulMind · February 2015

Leave Battle Roar alone! Seriously, getting really tired of people going back to the "nerf DK plz qq". In the PTS, playing a DK has become a lot more technical. Timing ultimates to receive the Battle Roar stat regain is much more important now. Leave our class alone and allow us to play with it in 1.6 before you cry and scream for more DK nerfs.

TagaParti · February 2015

DKs dont worry, we will still be the king of the hill. Although i dont like that they nerf us in so many ways now, like our wings and earthen heart active skills, also that broken chain, and that pathetic reformed inferno. But we will do good, they cant nerf us further or else noone could finish any pve content anymore. Enough of this DK nerf, i challenge you to nerf my DK from being Unkillable, there will always be a way. But it is always your choice, to nerf your players characters into a world called Unsub!

Derra · February 2015

Leave DKs alone already.

I would have wholeheartedly agreed 4 months ago. Now this thread isn´t even beating a dead horse but burning its rotten corpse.

prototypefb · March 2015

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Leave Battle Roar alone! Seriously, getting really tired of people going back to the "nerf DK plz qq". In the PTS, playing a DK has become a lot more technical. Timing ultimates to receive the Battle Roar stat regain is much more important now. Leave our class alone and allow us to play with it in 1.6 before you cry and scream for more DK nerfs.

i wonder why devs havent' fixed this OP passive skill yet, it's sickly broken, not even close to what tooltip says, it must be fixed before real balance can become a reality in game.
it's a free full resource recovery with 1 click of a button with 0 drawbacks, where it should be a minor resource recovery.
i tested today on my DK vr6 15k hp, and it aparently crit for 16k hp recovery and full other stats aswell. it is insanely broken, compared to any other crpa passive skill out there.
dks will need some love if/when devs decide to fix this....

Xjcon · March 2015

Brizz wrote: »

This is the main reason that Dragon Knights can live for way longer then any other class versus multiple players. When combined with Tripotions, Dragon Knights can have enough stamina to hold block longer then any other class, enough magicka to both reflect attacks, heal, and do damage, and enough health to live against 10+ opponents.

This passive is not very well known to players, and seems to fly below the radar. I think the imbalance players feel against dragon knights isn't their reflect, it isn't their self heal, and it isn't their block, it's their ability to do these things seemingly endlessly.

This is evidenced in many pvp videos like this one, and is compounded 10 fold when a dragon knight becomes emperor and gains double ultimate generation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAzhw2mHAFI

Please address the real problem, because when 1.6 launches without soft caps, Dragon Knights will become kings.

Where is the down vote option?

Rosveen · March 2015

Brizz wrote: »

Please address the real problem, because when 1.6 launches without soft caps, Dragon Knights will become kings.

So... Are DKs kings yet?

Ace_SiN · March 2015

When has DK ever stopped being the king?

ArconSeptim · March 2015

Nerf Templars leave DKs alone, DKs suffered too much already...go back to your Sorcerer whiners threads

ArconSeptim · March 2015

Xjcon wrote: »

Brizz wrote: »

This is the main reason that Dragon Knights can live for way longer then any other class versus multiple players. When combined with Tripotions, Dragon Knights can have enough stamina to hold block longer then any other class, enough magicka to both reflect attacks, heal, and do damage, and enough health to live against 10+ opponents.

This passive is not very well known to players, and seems to fly below the radar. I think the imbalance players feel against dragon knights isn't their reflect, it isn't their self heal, and it isn't their block, it's their ability to do these things seemingly endlessly.

This is evidenced in many pvp videos like this one, and is compounded 10 fold when a dragon knight becomes emperor and gains double ultimate generation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAzhw2mHAFI

Please address the real problem, because when 1.6 launches without soft caps, Dragon Knights will become kings.

Where is the down vote option?

This is old video btw, and its old version of the game...so

EnOeZ · March 2015

Sorry Brizz, but I have to also disagree with you...

_ NB can fade away and turn invisible
_ Sorcerers can spam shields and of course blink away
_ Templars have a full spec of great heals... and the almighty blazing shield

DK also need some kind of class-specific strong survival mechanism.

Panda244 · March 2015

Before 1.6 I would've been able to be convinced otherwise.

But now.

Dis thread only be good for farming dem mysterious lol points!

Brizz · March 2015

It seems that with all the changes in 1.6, battle roar has been toned down a lot. This thread is old guys, players keep commenting and bumping it up and it's hilarious.

james_vestbergb16_ESO · March 2015

Brizz wrote: »

This is the main reason that Dragon Knights can live for way longer then any other class versus multiple players. When combined with Tripotions, Dragon Knights can have enough stamina to hold block longer then any other class, enough magicka to both reflect attacks, heal, and do damage, and enough health to live against 10+ opponents.

This passive is not very well known to players, and seems to fly below the radar. I think the imbalance players feel against dragon knights isn't their reflect, it isn't their self heal, and it isn't their block, it's their ability to do these things seemingly endlessly.

This is evidenced in many pvp videos like this one, and is compounded 10 fold when a dragon knight becomes emperor and gains double ultimate generation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAzhw2mHAFI

Please address the real problem, because when 1.6 launches without soft caps, Dragon Knights will become kings.

The reason DK's have this passive is because DK's dont have any passives that reduce costs for Magicka, Stamina and or Ultimates. In 1.5 (Prolly different in 1.6, haven't bothered checking) ALL other classes except DK's had such passives. Sorcs had cost reduction passives for All three, I believe Templars had the same and NB had for Magicka and Stamina I think.

This is the main reason DK's were given this passive which is meant to serve the same purpose. Resource management.

However with all the ultis dropping it wasn't perfect, i'll give you that much. But as others have pointed out the new Ulti system nerfs this passive, and along with it a part of DK's resource management.

If other classes still have the passives that give cost reduction (still, not sure how it is in 1.6), my question to you is: Are you willing to give those up? Because the Ulti change might have changed for all classes but it was basically only a nerf for DK's because of the lack of cost reduction passives.

sagitter · March 2015

The opness of dk was pre 1.6 ultimate regen synergized with battle roar.