Yes, the realities of the JS can be quite jarring to the uninitiated. Heck, it's worse for those who have played the game before because we could get away with so much. But some kind of warning or pop up as we are dropped into the world would be nice.

Or even a Get of Jail Free Card (or rather Reduce Your Bounty for Fee Card) could be given out to players just out of the Wailing Prison. Of course limit the free bounty cleanse to something like 200 or whatever so that it does not get abused. But someone makes a simple mistake, they can clean their record and know better the next time. Maybe even have it so the Guard gives you a break on the first arrest for a low level bounty, if you don't try to flee or attack them.

If you rack up a high bounty right out of the gate, well, that's too bad, deal with it. The game does a good job of telling you that your committing a crime, ignore that at your own peril.

I say let them learn the hard way. If they cannot be bothered to read the in-game help/website/forums for basic gameplay info, let them learn not to hit attack button at everything that moves. The whole point of a justice system in the first place.
The skillbar becoming active and lighting up while pointing at a NPC is a dead giveaway that it is attackable.

Sorry, but i don't support lazy people in MMO's who "can't be bothered, because it's a game". The game guide and information is even in-game... If they don't/can't read it... well, then a first death will teach them the hard way.

And i really don't care if you say otherwise.

Ysne58 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
It is really important to have some kind of warning message for new people either during or as they leave the tutorial that gives them notice about the consequences of attacking people in town, getting caught stealing, healing people with bounties or any other activity in the justice system.

I went through it again last night and was asked to group while doing so. One of the characters was on his very first play through. The first thing he did was attack an NPC. People just do not have enough gold to pay a bounty when immediately leaving the starter dungeon. I did mail him the money so he could pay it off. It was only 57 gold, but for a brand new person who knows nothing...it was quite a shock to him.

While i like the idea of an introduction to the justice system for beginners with an option to skip..

I do believe you just helped a criminal..
And you should now be flagged as an Accessory..

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

For example, there will be a pop-up before you break into a home

@ZOS_GinaBruno Not in my experience.

I personally want nothing whatsoever to do with Justice, ever, so I have never tried to 'cold' break into a house but there's a normal, long-standing quest in Alik'r (or possibly Bangkorai I forget which now as they have similar architecture at times) that at one point sends to to an abandoned house (or maybe it's a house in which the NPC has been murdered).

In either case the house is now locked as part of Justice and when you try to open it you get the lock-picking UI.

Yes, there's something in red that's the warning you're about to do something Justice-related but there was no pop-up like you seem to be describing at all.

I know other old quests now force you to engage in Justice in this way, I've seen one player report they were spotted and ended up with a bounty, no idea if that one gives a pop-up.

IMO it's VERY USER UNFRIENDLY to force us to engage in something some of us have no desire to and can seriously negatively affect our game experience, in our view, simply in order to progress quests that have been in the game since day 1.

ZOS may be very proud of Justice, it's not universally viewed in that way, believe me!

Kragorn wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

For example, there will be a pop-up before you break into a home

@ZOS_GinaBruno Not in my experience.

I personally want nothing whatsoever to do with Justice, ever, so I have never tried to 'cold' break into a house but there's a normal, long-standing quest in Alik'r (or possibly Bangkorai I forget which now as they have similar architecture at times) that at one point sends to to an abandoned house (or maybe it's a house in which the NPC has been murdered).

In either case the house is now locked as part of Justice and when you try to open it you get the lock-picking UI.

Yes, there's something in red that's the warning you're about to do something Justice-related but there was no pop-up like you seem to be describing at all.

I know other old quests now force you to engage in Justice in this way, I've seen one player report they were spotted and ended up with a bounty, no idea if that one gives a pop-up.

IMO it's VERY USER UNFRIENDLY to force us to engage in something some of us have no desire to and can seriously negatively affect our game experience, in our view, simply in order to progress quests that have been in the game since day 1.

ZOS may be very proud of Justice, it's not universally viewed in that way, believe me!

I completely agree with you here and said the same thing in another thread. No quests, not related to Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild should force a player to take part in the Justice System if they want nothing to do with it.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We actually do have a number of tutorial pop-ups when performing Justice-related activities for the first time. For example, there will be a pop-up before you break into a home or pickpocket your fellow citizen that explains what you're about to do, and there's a pop-up that appears after you kill an NPC that gives you bounty. If you guys are finding that these aren't happening, though, please let us know!

These all have worked correctly for me on multiple characters.

Perhaps these do not pop up for people who have disabled on-screen tutorials?

It is reasonable to think that most new players will not have disabled them though.

Samadhi wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We actually do have a number of tutorial pop-ups when performing Justice-related activities for the first time. For example, there will be a pop-up before you break into a home or pickpocket your fellow citizen that explains what you're about to do, and there's a pop-up that appears after you kill an NPC that gives you bounty. If you guys are finding that these aren't happening, though, please let us know!

These all have worked correctly for me on multiple characters.

Perhaps these do not pop up for people who have disabled on-screen tutorials?

It is reasonable to think that most new players will not have disabled them though.

Ah, that's probably why I don't recall seeing those pop ups. I'll test later.

Turelus wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We actually do have a number of tutorial pop-ups when performing Justice-related activities for the first time. For example, there will be a pop-up before you break into a home or pickpocket your fellow citizen that explains what you're about to do, and there's a pop-up that appears after you kill an NPC that gives you bounty. If you guys are finding that these aren't happening, though, please let us know!

This may not be working correctly then, as I have never had this come up when I went to break in to a home during the one quest where I was forced to do it, or not do the quest.

Do you have tutorials turned off?

No.. I don't.

Kragorn wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

For example, there will be a pop-up before you break into a home

@ZOS_GinaBruno Not in my experience.

I personally want nothing whatsoever to do with Justice, ever, so I have never tried to 'cold' break into a house but there's a normal, long-standing quest in Alik'r (or possibly Bangkorai I forget which now as they have similar architecture at times) that at one point sends to to an abandoned house (or maybe it's a house in which the NPC has been murdered).

In either case the house is now locked as part of Justice and when you try to open it you get the lock-picking UI.

Yes, there's something in red that's the warning you're about to do something Justice-related but there was no pop-up like you seem to be describing at all.

I know other old quests now force you to engage in Justice in this way, I've seen one player report they were spotted and ended up with a bounty, no idea if that one gives a pop-up.

IMO it's VERY USER UNFRIENDLY to force us to engage in something some of us have no desire to and can seriously negatively affect our game experience, in our view, simply in order to progress quests that have been in the game since day 1.

ZOS may be very proud of Justice, it's not universally viewed in that way, believe me!

I also agree that those quests need have methods added on to them that would allow non justice system players to do them.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We actually do have a number of tutorial pop-ups when performing Justice-related activities for the first time. For example, there will be a pop-up before you break into a home or pickpocket your fellow citizen that explains what you're about to do, and there's a pop-up that appears after you kill an NPC that gives you bounty. If you guys are finding that these aren't happening, though, please let us know!

That's all well and good, but most bounties come from attacking NPCs where you state the pop-up appears after attacking. Switching it around so that you receive some sort of warning BEFORE attacking would make a huge difference.

Even putting in a mini-quest tutorial such as the main tutorial, where there's no ramifications for players actions, in the main cities which includes having to pickpocket, loot, trespass and murder would be extremely handy. Players can then complete those specific actions within the quest without receiving a bounty (or receive one with instructions to find the nearest refuge) and learn the justice system properly before being let loose on Tamriel's citizens.

It would make a HUGE difference to new players, especially those coming next Tuesday and who attack NPCs (first law of gaming, if you can attack it you do and then learn not to) only to find themselves constantly killed by way OP guards.

You might reap the monetary gain but the reputation of TU under the general gaming population will drop faster than we do through glitches.

The church is left the prison is right choose your path - pay the consequences .
there are messages btw...

I'm pretty sure attacking innocents in Oblivion or Skyrim got you a bounty too. Coming from those games, why would any potential newbie now expect it to be different in ESO?

The lack of sandbox elements like the Justice System has been heavily criticised since launch and now they've finally added something. There comes a point when the community just needs to be happy with getting what they've asked for.

There's tutorial pop-ups. That combined with common sense should be enough for most people (especially coming from a TES background). No reason to hold everybody's hands.

I don't see why killing innocents shoudl be off by default. This is just going to hide some of the games content from players until they realise it's there.

Killing/Stealing has been part of every recent TES game and anyone coming from the TES series should be aware of it, other MMO players should just learn fast from their mistakes and not repeat the issues. Sure you might lose one or two customers from it but if they're leaving over something minor like that chances are they would have left later any way.

There are fr crueller MMO games out there.

They can just get killed by guards - for newbies it is not a problem and the bounty goes away.