Attribute points respec and/or double builds

Helluin · February 2015

To grant more versatility with groups and be helpful, both in PvE and in PvP, I would like to suggest a changement or a new feature.
Infact, with softcaps removed, just switch gear is not often enough when it's required to change from a role to another one.

In 1.6 it is possible to respec champion points everywhere but it could be added the chance to respec also attribute points without visiting the shrine.

This would help to switch from a role to another one when in group.
A player would simply switch his/her gear, champion points and attribute points to be able to fulfil a different role (from damage dealer to healer or tank).
Another way to achieve the same goal is to add a sort of double build system.
A character then would be able to set a profile 1 and a profile 2 with champion and attribute points spent in different ways.
With a switch, out of combat, from a profile to another one, a player would be able to fulfil more easily two different roles.

This system could be extended to the morphs chosen for further more versatility.

This double build feature could be unlocked at lvl 50 or upon completing Cadwell's Gold.
Since many players didn't appreciate the poor reward of this long quest, to unlock a similar feature would be an amazing reward.

Option 2 imho seems better, even if harder to be implemented, because it prevents some downsides of option 1 and it could also solve the Cadwell's Gold reward issue.

What do you think about this?

Helluin · February 2015

With 1.6.3 the cost to respec Champion Points is a lot higher than in previous patches (70CP, 3.000 golds).

Considering this, the option (2) to save a main build and a side build would be really a great feature imho.
This is good not only for different contents but also for players interested to fulfil different roles (tank, damage dealer, healer).

SoulScream · February 2015

It costs so much and takes long enough clicking all those skills and passives I really preferred how Rift did things with saved soul skill sets.

indigoblades · February 2015

thats a good suggestion..... in 1.5 the softcaps made it easy to play many roles .... pve & pvp with with either staffs or stam wpns..... in 1.6 changing gear wont allow that unless i revisit my attribute points.

Kragorn · February 2015

SoulScream wrote: »

It costs so much and takes long enough clicking all those skills and passives I really preferred how Rift did things with saved soul skill sets.

WOW's dual-spec mechanic is more comparable to what ESO could do I'd have said, Rift's of course is in a different league of usefulness I agree.

It's bizarre if you think about it, is many ways ESO provides far more options in order to create a build due to the pitifully small number of skills we can slot out of the large number available, yet the game's UI simply makes USING that flexibility impossible for most practical purposes and also far, FAR too costly gold-wise and time-consuming to encourage most people to even TRY experimenting much.

sput4ueb17_ESO · February 2015

This game so far among other things has a difference from other games because you can play any type of game play you like with your character.Now in live to switch roles is fast and easy .
For 1.6 to keep up there is a necessity of either cheep like 1000 k respec of champion points or as post says a profile saver.
Pls consider this
thanks

Helluin · February 2015

Indeed there is an huge number of skills, this is something I always really liked, and I agree with you @Kragorn on the small number of slottable ones, by design choice or issues related to consoles and controllers.
This is a feature I never liked.

But for this and RIFT or WoW systems used to achieve something similar, but for Champion Points and Attribute Points, what do you consider important to add into a possible multiple build system?
Mundus Stones and morphs or the first two are enough? Something else?

When the Champion System is capped (long time), it would be just a matter of Attribute Points but meanwhile I consider this tool important for several reasons like the ones we are all writing so far.

ToRelax · February 2015

At the moment, you can switch roles on Live server with changing gear, because of the softcaps. Now that they are being removed, you may want to respec if you want to switch roles. Not looking forward to it.
The option #2 would make it possible to switch roles without having to pay several thousand gold and a significant amount of time everytime.
Hey @ZOS, you could even sell the option to have a 3rd or more builds in the crown store (aka LoL)

.

Helluin · February 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Hey @ZOS, you could even sell the option to have a 3rd or more builds in the crown store (aka LoL) .

Good idea!
I'd probably buy two more hehe.

pmn100b16_ESO · February 2015

I was going to make a post today about this very thing. If you actively swap between end game pvp and pve, if you're serious about your builds, you're going to be faced with a 3000g (current cost on pts) bill everytime you change champ points. If I wanted to go from magicka build in pvp to stamina build for trials, I'd also likely be faced with the 3000g build for attribute changes. Thats 6000g everytime you go from cryodiil to craglorn.

In 1.5 I could make sacrifices on the attributes so that I didn't have to pay gold everytime to change them. I would have preferred more magicka for pvp and more health but pve, but I managed to find a way to prevent the 3000g cost everytime I changed roles. In 1.6, as has been said, with the removal of softcaps, you're likely going to want to respec attributes and champ points if you want to be competitive going from end game pvp to pve, and its going to cost 6000g everytime. I don't know about anyone else, but I can't afford that. That seems extremely high. Its almost like zos is saying, we don't want you to explore all the different builds your character has to offer, pick one and stick with it.

DeLindsay · February 2015

SoulScream wrote: »

It costs so much and takes long enough clicking all those skills and passives I really preferred how Rift did things with saved soul skill sets.

^ This period. All this "but we need gold sinks crap" is nothing but a wall to keep Players from really doing want they want in ESO. Respec's of whatever should be virtually free (it's 1000 Gold in Rift) and we should have multiple, saved skill sets as well as multiple Costume slots that we could change our look at will without even touching our Gear.

Helluin · February 2015

For multiple saved skill sets and gear, I use an addon (Wykkid's Toolbar and Outfitter).
For CP an addon should be doable saving different profiles; we could always respec but the cost would be high after a while.
For Attribute Points instead there is also the additional limitation of a shrine.

The option 1 to be able to always respec at a cheap cost is doable but would make your decisions meaningless. For example, you face a boss as tank, you have some issues and after a wipe you respec stats/champion points.
It's good but it could be also controversial.

The option 2 instead would avoid the issues of option 1, there won't be necessary to change the Attribute shrine.
A player would have 2 or X saved builds, so he/she can switch amongst those.
When he/she wants to change something in one of these builds, he/she would use the tools already in place with a respec of Champion Points and a visit to an Attribute points shrine.
If not a problem, also save a different Mundus Stone can be good.
To be really complete also morphs could be part of this system but let's start with CP and attributes at least.

Considering all your posts and what I think, option 2 seems more solid than 1.
It also gives the option to sell in crown store additional build sets, as correctly stated by @ToRelax .

pmn100b16_ESO · February 2015

Well something needs to be done because if this goes live, I'll be paying 12000g everyday to play pvp the pve. Going pvp spec in afternoon, 6000g, swapping to pve spec for evening, 6000g, repeat the next day. I'll be broke within the month. If people JUST pve or JUST pvp, there's zero cost because you'll just stay on the same build. But for those of us that swap between content, maybe we're a minority I don't know, but we're being penalized hard.

The thing is, I would have thought zos would like to encourage build diversity and the adjusting of champ/attributes points to develop varying theories for your class. Putting the re-specs behind a pay wall actively discourages this.

Helluin · February 2015

Even if playing just PvE or PvP, you would respec anyway, if as mindset you are flexible and you want to help your group.
If my guild in a Trial or in Cyrodiil requires dps, healer or support, I would respec anyway even playing just one content.

For example, often during our PvP events I'm doing so switching between a build more focused on damage and one that grants healing, according to the number of healers in group.

pmn100b16_ESO · February 2015

Helluin wrote: »

Even if playing just PvE or PvP, you would respec anyway, if as mindset you are flexible and you want to help your group.
If my guild in a Trial or in Cyrodiil requires dps, healer or support, I would respec anyway even playing just one content.

For example, often during our PvP events I'm doing so switching between a build more focused on damage and one that grants healing, according to the number of healers in group.

yeah sure, if you swap class roles regularly you're going to be hit. Again, probably a minority overlooked.

GreyRanger · February 2015

I would like to see option 2. Version of it have been done in a number of MMOs, but I am sure it won't happen for 1.6. The removal of the soft caps + champion points which dramatically reduce people's ability to quickly swap roles is also going to make it harder to put together teams for daily trials. Fewer people will be able/willing to fill more than one role. There will be a lot more team looking for tank or healer . . . followed by chirp chirp

Helluin · March 2015

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Is there a chance you could consider this proposal or something similar for future?
It would help a lot players who want to switch builds or to be more helpful to their group and guild changing a role during PvE and PvP.

If it's possible, it would be nice to move this thread to General Discussion, now that update 6 is live, so more players can see it and give their opinion on this matter.