Another Radiant Destruction Topic (Templar P.O.V.)

Fizzlewizzle · March 2015

With the recent wave of complaints about Radient Destruction i thought i should write my own point of view about this new skill.
I will discuss the pro's, con's and what should be changed to make it a more balanced skill.

First off, the skill itself.
Do i find it Overpowered? No, I don't find it overpowered.
The mechanic it uses (the channel) makes it seem far more powerful because all the damage it does is written down as a single hit, even though it does multiple hits over a longer period of time. A single Cast of Radiant Destruction could be compared to 3X Reverse Slash or Assassin's Blade, but unlike Radiant Destruction Reverse Slash or Assassin's Blade will shows its damage as multiple hits.

What is good about Radiant Destruction (user Pov):
- It has long Range (28M).
- It is a channel (double sided blade)
- Cost efficient.

What is bad about Radiant Destruction (user Pov):
- It is a channel.
- No options for attack weaving.
- Decreased movement speed.
- Susceptible for attacks.

Lets start with the good ones. It is the execute with the longest range in the game. You can (as a healer) stand far away from the main fight while dealing decent damage in the execute phase. During the normal phase i wouldn't recommend using this skill to anyone. With the changes to light attacks (much faster) it is often better to use any other skill/ attack style, and combine it with light attacks.
It being a channel makes it very cost efficient. getting about 3-4 hits for 25% more Stamina than Reverse Slash takes (no idea about Assassin's Blade) is very good. Also, when it goes into execute mode the damage goes up slowly but surely (it won't suddenly bump up to 300%, it goes in stages, like Reverse Slash works).

The bad side starts off with it being a channel, and with that it covers almost all grounds immediately. Because it is channeled you can't mix in other attacks, or do animation cancelling. the first half won't work and the second half stops your skill from working. Added to that you have the decreased movement speed one has while channelling, which makes you a very easy target.

Is it the "Ultimate that doesn't cost Ultimate" people are claiming it to be? Lets answer that with another question: Is Reverse Slash or Assassin's Blade the ultimate that doesn't cost ultimate? No. Personally i use both Radiant Glory (the healing morph) and Soul Assault as offensive tools.
The description about the damage on both is the following:

Are they alike: The use and the graphical display are very much alike. The damage however, not so much.

What i think should change.
Radiant Destruction is a very good skill for 1v1 fights, something Templars have been needing for a long time now.
That you can't do anything against it however, is something that is something that should change.

My personal opinion would be that you should be:
- Able to block it (for reduced damage).
- That you can break line of sight (will stop the damage completely).
- Using a skill that deflects magic should work on it (based on the type of deflect skill*).

What should NOT work on it:
- Dodgeroll (It will not break it, though it should allow you to dodge 1 tick of the skill).
- Purge or any Cleanse skill (Its not a DoT effect, its a normal attack).

I hope to have a civilized conversation about this skill. Arguments about this skill (be it good or bad) are welcome, but give some reason for why you have said argument. Reasons such as"Look at this Damage Recap, he hit (X) against me using that skill" is not a valid argument, as a Damage Recap does NOT show the situation of the fight. (Videos are okay, since we can all see what happened).

Kragorn · March 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

With the recent wave of complaints about Radient Destruction i thought i should write my own point of view about this new skill.

Fine, but why create yet another thread on this subject?

Alcast · March 2015

Good point dude, i dont understand all the QQ about that skill lawl.

Wblow hits you in the face with even more

And it is simple math: 9,5k over 3 seconds=3,166dmg/second lower dmg as Crushing shock.

But now, Lets say the users has full magicka= 40% increase.
9,5*1,4=13,3k dmg over 3 seconds = 4,43kdmg/second (slightly higher than Crushing shock)

And ofc if 3x Enemys jesus beamz you in the face you will die, but same goes for CS and wblow.

Now lets say the 330% apply (would be at like 10% or even lower of enemies HP?)
9,5k*1,4*4,3=57,2kdmg over 3 seconds = 19k/second.

19k is much, but EVERY OTHER EXECUTE deals that dmg at that low health.

Fizzlewizzle · March 2015

Kragorn wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

With the recent wave of complaints about Radient Destruction i thought i should write my own point of view about this new skill.

Fine, but why create yet another thread on this subject?

Because all of the topics i have read so far are nothing but complaints. Be it complaints about the skill or complaints about complaints. Nothing that actually contributed to the users of said skill or the receiving end of the skill.

Do i think we deserved a decent dps skill? Yes, i do. Do i think the skill is perfect? No, far from. The problems however isn't with the damage or the use (as most will make you believe), its about what you can do against it, which is currently nothing.

Against all other skills you can block, which doesn't seem to work against Radiant Destruction.
Using skills like Reflective Scales, Defensive Posture or Eclipse should also work against it.

With the current Reflective Scales you can return 4 spells to the caster. This shouldn't mean that you can return 4 Radiant Destructions, but at least being able to return 4 ticks of damage should be possible.
Same with Defensive Posture (which should only reflect 1 tick), and the Defensive Stance Morph (The reflected Tick should Stun the caster, terminating the rest of the channel).
(Eclipse would be the only skill that works against the target for 100% of the beam, as it has a time duration instead of a cast count).

Alcast wrote: »

Good point dude, i dont understand all the QQ about that skill lawl.

Wblow hits you in the face with even more

And it is simple math: 9,5k over 3 seconds=3,166dmg/second lower dmg as Crushing shock.

But now, Lets say the users has full magicka= 40% increase.
9,5*1,4=13,3k dmg over 3 seconds = 4,43kdmg/second (slightly higher than Crushing shock)

And ofc if 3x Enemys jesus beamz you in the face you will die, but same goes for CS and wblow.

Now lets say the 330% apply (would be at like 10% or even lower of enemies HP?)
9,5k*1,4*4,3=57,2kdmg over 3 seconds = 19k/second.

19k is much, but EVERY OTHER EXECUTE deals that dmg at that low health.

I do understand the complaints people have, which was one of the reasons i made this topic.
The solutions they give however aren't helpful in any way. You would only end up with a useless skill dps wise, while defending would still be impossible.

You have a very good example of what a normal "accepted" skill does compared to the Radiant Destruction skill. And although the one of the morphs give a 40% bonus (which will put it above the Crushing Shock skill), Crushing shock users can weave light attacks between there casts, which will most likely even it out.

(I do wish to ask you to refrain from uses lawl's, QQ, Jezus beamz and other such comments. Trying to keep it civilized might already be hard on a bit more sensitive topic... and such comments might provoke people.)

cozmon3c_ESO · March 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

With the recent wave of complaints about Radient Destruction i thought i should write my own point of view about this new skill.

Fine, but why create yet another thread on this subject?

Because all of the topics i have read so far are nothing but complaints. Be it complaints about the skill or complaints about complaints. Nothing that actually contributed to the users of said skill or the receiving end of the skill.

Do i think we deserved a decent dps skill? Yes, i do. Do i think the skill is perfect? No, far from. The problems however isn't with the damage or the use (as most will make you believe), its about what you can do against it, which is currently nothing.

Against all other skills you can block, which doesn't seem to work against Radiant Destruction.
Using skills like Reflective Scales, Defensive Posture or Eclipse should also work against it.

With the current Reflective Scales you can return 4 spells to the caster. This shouldn't mean that you can return 4 Radiant Destructions, but at least being able to return 4 ticks of damage should be possible.
Same with Defensive Posture (which should only reflect 1 tick), and the Defensive Stance Morph (The reflected Tick should Stun the caster, terminating the rest of the channel).
(Eclipse would be the only skill that works against the target for 100% of the beam, as it has a time duration instead of a cast count).

Alcast wrote: »

Good point dude, i dont understand all the QQ about that skill lawl.

Wblow hits you in the face with even more

And it is simple math: 9,5k over 3 seconds=3,166dmg/second lower dmg as Crushing shock.

But now, Lets say the users has full magicka= 40% increase.
9,5*1,4=13,3k dmg over 3 seconds = 4,43kdmg/second (slightly higher than Crushing shock)

And ofc if 3x Enemys jesus beamz you in the face you will die, but same goes for CS and wblow.

Now lets say the 330% apply (would be at like 10% or even lower of enemies HP?)
9,5k*1,4*4,3=57,2kdmg over 3 seconds = 19k/second.

19k is much, but EVERY OTHER EXECUTE deals that dmg at that low health.

I do understand the complaints people have, which was one of the reasons i made this topic.
The solutions they give however aren't helpful in any way. You would only end up with a useless skill dps wise, while defending would still be impossible.

You have a very good example of what a normal "accepted" skill does compared to the Radiant Destruction skill. And although the one of the morphs give a 40% bonus (which will put it above the Crushing Shock skill), Crushing shock users can weave light attacks between there casts, which will most likely even it out.

(I do wish to ask you to refrain from uses lawl's, QQ, Jezus beamz and other such comments. Trying to keep it civilized might already be hard on a bit more sensitive topic... and such comments might provoke people.)

dude reflective scales works against to much crap, if anything you dk's should have to choose between reflecting magicka or stamina projectiles.

jopeymonster · March 2015

There are currently 3 possible bugs affecting this skill which will make it seem OP. We need those fixed first before we begin to evaluate it further.

No one had an issue with it on PTS once the bugs were ironed out. The thing is, players should be directing their frustration toward ZOS for releasing known bugs found in PTS, into a Live Update, not the class or skill that is affect by said bugs.

Anyone play PTS when Redbull and friends discovered the 1million+ War Horn damage bug? Just be glad that bug didn't make it into Live. xD

Fizzlewizzle · March 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

With the recent wave of complaints about Radient Destruction i thought i should write my own point of view about this new skill.

Fine, but why create yet another thread on this subject?

Because all of the topics i have read so far are nothing but complaints. Be it complaints about the skill or complaints about complaints. Nothing that actually contributed to the users of said skill or the receiving end of the skill.

Do i think we deserved a decent dps skill? Yes, i do. Do i think the skill is perfect? No, far from. The problems however isn't with the damage or the use (as most will make you believe), its about what you can do against it, which is currently nothing.

Against all other skills you can block, which doesn't seem to work against Radiant Destruction.
Using skills like Reflective Scales, Defensive Posture or Eclipse should also work against it.

With the current Reflective Scales you can return 4 spells to the caster. This shouldn't mean that you can return 4 Radiant Destructions, but at least being able to return 4 ticks of damage should be possible.
Same with Defensive Posture (which should only reflect 1 tick), and the Defensive Stance Morph (The reflected Tick should Stun the caster, terminating the rest of the channel).
(Eclipse would be the only skill that works against the target for 100% of the beam, as it has a time duration instead of a cast count).

Alcast wrote: »

Good point dude, i dont understand all the QQ about that skill lawl.

Wblow hits you in the face with even more

And it is simple math: 9,5k over 3 seconds=3,166dmg/second lower dmg as Crushing shock.

But now, Lets say the users has full magicka= 40% increase.
9,5*1,4=13,3k dmg over 3 seconds = 4,43kdmg/second (slightly higher than Crushing shock)

And ofc if 3x Enemys jesus beamz you in the face you will die, but same goes for CS and wblow.

Now lets say the 330% apply (would be at like 10% or even lower of enemies HP?)
9,5k*1,4*4,3=57,2kdmg over 3 seconds = 19k/second.

19k is much, but EVERY OTHER EXECUTE deals that dmg at that low health.

I do understand the complaints people have, which was one of the reasons i made this topic.
The solutions they give however aren't helpful in any way. You would only end up with a useless skill dps wise, while defending would still be impossible.

You have a very good example of what a normal "accepted" skill does compared to the Radiant Destruction skill. And although the one of the morphs give a 40% bonus (which will put it above the Crushing Shock skill), Crushing shock users can weave light attacks between there casts, which will most likely even it out.

(I do wish to ask you to refrain from uses lawl's, QQ, Jezus beamz and other such comments. Trying to keep it civilized might already be hard on a bit more sensitive topic... and such comments might provoke people.)

dude reflective scales works against to much crap, if anything you dk's should have to choose between reflecting magicka or stamina projectiles.

Ehm... i'm a Templar.
Most of the times i counter a DK's Reflective Scales with My Eclipse skill. It creates a nice game of tennis which the DK will lose (he can only reflect 4 times, i can do it for 6 seconds). Cast Eclipse on one, followed by Radiant Destructions and you will still drill through his scales like they weren't there.

Templars have a counter for Reflective scales, as well as Defensive Posture. So giving DK's the option to use them won't hurt us,

Snit · March 2015

Sorc PoV Response: I clicked 'Agree.' That's a reasonable view.

I think the big issue is the morph increasing damage if the Templar's current magicka is high. You see some crazy numbers sometimes, enough to compare to the Soul Assault ultimate.

I don't necessarily want to see it become reflectable. As unhappy as sorcs are that DK's can nullify our primary sustained and burst damage skills, sharing that misery doesn't help anyone (except DK's). Seeing scale-spammers melted by deathrays may get old someday, but that day is not soon

Joy_Division · March 2015

You are wasting your time. People who have been killed by the spell have already made up their mind. Probably mostly DKs who are used to reflecting everything and using their pajamas and shields to survive against 20 players beating them down.

Xelphos · March 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

With the recent wave of complaints about Radient Destruction i thought i should write my own point of view about this new skill.
I will discuss the pro's, con's and what should be changed to make it a more balanced skill.

First off, the skill itself.
Do i find it Overpowered? No, I don't find it overpowered.
The mechanic it uses (the channel) makes it seem far more powerful because all the damage it does is written down as a single hit, even though it does multiple hits over a longer period of time. A single Cast of Radiant Destruction could be compared to 3X Reverse Slash or Assassin's Blade, but unlike Radiant Destruction Reverse Slash or Assassin's Blade will shows its damage as multiple hits.

What is good about Radiant Destruction (user Pov):
- It has long Range (28M).
- It is a channel (double sided blade)
- Cost efficient.

What is bad about Radiant Destruction (user Pov):
- It is a channel.
- No options for attack weaving.
- Decreased movement speed.
- Susceptible for attacks.

Lets start with the good ones. It is the execute with the longest range in the game. You can (as a healer) stand far away from the main fight while dealing decent damage in the execute phase. During the normal phase i wouldn't recommend using this skill to anyone. With the changes to light attacks (much faster) it is often better to use any other skill/ attack style, and combine it with light attacks.
It being a channel makes it very cost efficient. getting about 3-4 hits for 25% more Stamina than Reverse Slash takes (no idea about Assassin's Blade) is very good. Also, when it goes into execute mode the damage goes up slowly but surely (it won't suddenly bump up to 300%, it goes in stages, like Reverse Slash works).

The bad side starts off with it being a channel, and with that it covers almost all grounds immediately. Because it is channeled you can't mix in other attacks, or do animation cancelling. the first half won't work and the second half stops your skill from working. Added to that you have the decreased movement speed one has while channelling, which makes you a very easy target.

Is it the "Ultimate that doesn't cost Ultimate" people are claiming it to be? Lets answer that with another question: Is Reverse Slash or Assassin's Blade the ultimate that doesn't cost ultimate? No. Personally i use both Radiant Glory (the healing morph) and Soul Assault as offensive tools.
The description about the damage on both is the following:

Are they alike: The use and the graphical display are very much alike. The damage however, not so much.

What i think should change.
Radiant Destruction is a very good skill for 1v1 fights, something Templars have been needing for a long time now.
That you can't do anything against it however, is something that is something that should change.

My personal opinion would be that you should be:
- Able to block it (for reduced damage).
- That you can break line of sight (will stop the damage completely).
- Using a skill that deflects magic should work on it (based on the type of deflect skill*).

What should NOT work on it:
- Dodgeroll (It will not break it, though it should allow you to dodge 1 tick of the skill).
- Purge or any Cleanse skill (Its not a DoT effect, its a normal attack).

I hope to have a civilized conversation about this skill. Arguments about this skill (be it good or bad) are welcome, but give some reason for why you have said argument. Reasons such as"Look at this Damage Recap, he hit (X) against me using that skill" is not a valid argument, as a Damage Recap does NOT show the situation of the fight. (Videos are okay, since we can all see what happened).

Seems very reasonable to me. It wouldn't hurt me much anyways as I use the execute as intended, on enemies lower than 30% health (Mainly bosses in dungeon runs.).