Templar and Dragonknight: Do we need to be Vampire in pvp with 1.6?

ToRelax · March 2015

I have played a bit magicka on PTS, he did not have the tools to survive and/or escape multiple attackers anymore like the other classes.
NB can cloak and shado image, Sorc can use Mines, BoL and a magicka based shield, Templar has a ton of healing and a shield that kills uncareful melee attackers. Scales won't help against melee, your shield is scaling with max health, you can neither block nor heal through everything, Petrify is single target, Talons won't save you as you need to be close to the enemies...
My best bet would be Mistform as well

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Yuke · March 2015

Dont forget that hey have changed Evil Hunter. Might not be the best decision to run around as a vamp.

Cinbri · March 2015

Will cure vamp 100% and glad about it

Soulac · March 2015

Yuke wrote: »

Dont forget that hey have changed Evil Hunter. Might not be the best decision to run around as a vamp.

NANANANANANANA BATCAT

Father · March 2015

Its not worth it becoming vampire again,there are far more powerfull ultimates out there like ice comet.
Every Melee or bow that uses crit build or simply want 10% wep crit puts Evil Hunter on his bar, I'm one of the those people.
Your best bet is to use Rapid manuever and some snare ability or get invisibility potion which lasts 20 sec.
or craft Unstoppable or Immovable potion forgot the name,it lasts 20sec and great in pvp

I cured my vampirism on PTS and recently on Live due to the many cons it has.
The only thing I really miss is Dark Stalker it boosts sneak speed greatly, and stacks with rapid maneuver double take and concealed weapons.

Panda244 · March 2015

Templars and Dragonknights don't have escapes, Templars don't because ZOS is silly, Templars die if the group dies basically, Dragonknights' don't because every good Dragonknight has a mindset they enter when *** gets rough called "Survival" and they just start spamming skills that keep them alive, dropping standards etc etc etc. Until A, they die, or B, backup arrives.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · March 2015

Dreyloch wrote: »

Lhorion wrote: »

Hey,
my thoughts were:
Sorcs have the oportunity to port away if they are the target in open world pvp.
Nightblades have the opoertunity to use shadow + vanish when they are the target (and they have placed the shadow ) in open world pvp.

Templars and DKs don't have any escape skill. I don't like vampires, but I am scared. Do we need to be Vampire for the escape? Or do you see any othe roption to handle with beeing the target in 1.6? I would welcome your thoughts. At the moment I think I will be vamp because of this, but I would be glad about annother way.

Regards,
Lorion

Short answer? Just man up and wear plate, and NO you don't need to be a vamp what kind of silliness is this thread?

Use routes that aren't so direct as to let the bad guys know where to hide on your path. DK's and Temps have the ability to take considerable damage. Even now wearing cloth on live I can most times survive a sniper hit enough to get knocked off my horse and have a fighting chance as a DK. You can't use potions while mounted, so unless you plan to run everywhere, get your horse speed up soon as you can, use the support skill for speed while mounted and moving around. You can cast stuff while mounted in 1.6

If your that scared to be out running in PvP, then don't PvP.

so many miss the point and go bla bla bla live: NOPE. 1.6 is much different and 1.5 strategies are mostly out the window, if you think you can jump in to 1.6 with the same light armor sword board dps tank and wreck face while absorbing damage all day, well bring some lube on the patch day your in for a rough surprise.
Im also curious how this will go because so many dk and templar play this way and its just not as powerful or even viable at all anymore. when i don light armor for pvp it will probably be for a glass cannon ganker. going to have to figure out group play still.

Vanzen · March 2015

Father wrote: »

Its not worth it becoming vampire again,there are far more powerfull ultimates out there like ice comet.
Every Melee or bow that uses crit build or simply want 10% wep crit puts Evil Hunter on his bar, I'm one of the those people.
Your best bet is to use Rapid manuever and some snare ability or get invisibility potion which lasts 20 sec.
or craft Unstoppable or Immovable potion forgot the name,it lasts 20sec and great in pvp
I cured my vampirism on PTS and recently on Live due to the many cons it has.
The only thing I really miss is Dark Stalker it boosts sneak speed greatly, and stacks with rapid maneuver double take and concealed weapons.

Never used invisibility potions. How do they work ? You just can become invisible for a period of time, right in the midle of a fighting crowd ?!

timidobserver · March 2015

There are alternatives to escaping at all, but yes to answer your question, if you want to escape vampire is the only way for a Templar or DK.

Solanum · March 2015

Have you considered invisibility potions?

Mistform makes you immune to heals, so in group-play that can kinda suck.
Not to mention it takes a chunk out of your magicka which won't recover in mistform either.

Francescolg · March 2015

Lhorion wrote: »

amage shields are more important than any kind of heal

100% that has been since release and not just yet.

TEMPLARS: your best "self heal" is your blazing shield combined with blocking. If targetted by NB: 1. BS 2. BS/Purifying Ritual 3. PR/BS 4. heal - nothing else will help you. Use your heals when the shield stands, as the heal will be 50%+ less than the shield's value due to heal debuff (90% use it)

Birdovic · March 2015

Lol @ this Thread
When you cant fight off 3 Enemy at once, its unfair e.e (desperate sorc here xD)

Going vamp will kill you even faster( Silver bolt, 40% Fire dmg, talons in mistform etc.)
All i can Tell you is use maneuver if you really Need to run.
But i agree with others, fight them off until you get help from allies. If you run Solo, well, defense is your best way to stay Alive.

WhiskyBob · March 2015

Go full stamina and pop werewolf for 20 seconds of amazing howl of despair peaking at 30k dps. (70cp)

Lhorion · March 2015

@Francescolg Try to block in 1.6! And i never said shields were not strong. But they are more important in 1.6.
@andypappb16_ESO Please read before complaining. If you would have done you would know that this is not about 1v3-4 or running away. If you still misunderstand, let it be - seems to be difficult to understand.

Vanzen · March 2015

I think to block effectively in 1.6, you need to go heavy armor magicka. Weird, isnt it ? Stam wont do, you ll never have enough stam to block and use abilities at the same time. I ve tried vs Cyrodiil guards. With 99 cp, full magicka, I can perma block vs 3 guards and kill them with magicka.With stam, I either block or dps, but not both.Am a DK. And furthemore I ve been given to understand that reduce stam cost wont reduce your block cost, as its a particular perk in champ constellation.

Kas · March 2015

tbh I did not have the opportinutiy do do any meaningful test on the PTS. All I've met are solos or zergs. It's pretty much out of discussion that stamina builds are vastly superior for that. Especially since they seem to be the new way to unite defensive (descent mitigation in MA, block not as good as heavy but better than light and MANY more dodge rolls) and offensive (crazy single target damage with wrecking blow and several class skills).

However, while vigor is a great skill, it is in no way comparable to resto or templar heals - all of which scale off magicka. Further, talons, spear shards, fear and even encase are just better AoE CC than anythign stam has to offer. Liekwise, best AoE damage seems to be magicka. Last but not least, while synergies became harder to use, all of the are incredibly awesome.

Sadly I have never been able to test group fights on the PTS, but I'm pretty sure a group with several magicka users (maybe some stam that can focus important targets and drop decent caltrops) will still eat a group of stamina users alive. Maybe this is not true for smaller groups, but you don't need a 20man bomb train (I hope they'll go away but tbh I don't see that happending at all) - I think groups of ~8 are enough. But I guess I won't know for sure until 1.6 goes life.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2015

You do understand that Mystform is not an escape, nor has it been for some time. It's essentially a magicka based Sprint.

It increases your movement speed, but only base movement. Therefore, someone with stamina to spare can simply sprint after you and keep pace, only now you have less Magicka when yours is over.

Granted, you have the reduction to damage during, but it's not the escape it once was.

(Several patches ago, you could Mystform + 'Sprint') which gave you considerable speed increase. It hasn't been this way for some time, however.)

Lhorion · March 2015

@Merlin13KAGL Again: I donÄt want to run away, I need a way to get out of focus fpr a while. Mistform would force the group to attack annother target so I am safe for the moment. Against a good group you cannot wait until the magica of the guy using mistform is gone. You have to hit annother target than and this is my intention.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2015

Lhorion wrote: »

@Merlin13KAGL Again: I donÄt want to run away, I need a way to get out of focus fpr a while. Mistform would force the group to attack annother target so I am safe for the moment. Against a good group you cannot wait until the magica of the guy using mistform is gone. You have to hit annother target than and this is my intention.

@Lhorion, well that it will do.

It won't keep someone bent on your destruction from pursuing, but it should make you a bit less intriguing for a few seconds (perhaps long enough).

Just remember your MR and HR basically stops for the duration and you still have collision in form of blood and fog...go figure.

Snit · March 2015

Retreating Maneuver is also very good. It's not a one-button solution, but it's effective. As a sorc with Streak on my primary bar, I find some situations where the best solution for escaping involves spamming a damage shield and popping Retreating M. It gives your whole group a chance.

I've never tried the invis pots. Those have got to be worth a shot, though, for those situations where you're locked in "detected" and low on resources.

Lhorion · March 2015

P.S.: Mistform works well for this kind of use.