1.6 Trial Bow Build

Stalwart385 · February 2015

Has anyone had any success with a stam bow build? I have a NB Redguard VR2 I want to level in 1.6 to range dps with. Kinda corned my self into bow with Redguard and wanting range. Wondering if it can be a viable sustained DPS for serious trial runs.

Thanks

Alphashado · February 2015

ZoS doesn't seem to give 2 turds about a viable, sustainable Bow rotation right now. They seem to want all their DPS to be melee. As it stands right now, based on my own testing with a NB on the PTS, there isn't anything even remotely competitive with the Bow atm. Burst dmg in PvP is fine, but sustainable, competitive dps for dungeons and trials, the Bow isn't even on par with any of the ranged casting builds.

There have been multiple attempts to start a conversation about it here on this forum, and it's generally met with criticism from people who think the only dps that matters is melee and they think that melee should be 50% stronger than ranged. Right now, 8k-9k DPS is the best sustainable DPS I've seen posted or discussed, while almost every class is getting 12k-15k with DW or a 2H rotation.

If something doesn't change, Bow builds will not even be welcome in trial runs. I hope I am wrong. I keep hoping I am missing something and someone will figure out a way to make the Bow viable in 1.6, but I haven't seen any proof yet.

My personal opinion is it's because ZoS doesn't want to make the Bow too strong in PvP. It's a shame that PvP effects PvE like that, but it's the sad truth. And it will always be like that in games where both co exist. PvP will ALWAYS trump PvE, and that is just the sad truth about developmental changes because dungeon bosses can't appeal to the developers about how they want everything nerfed, but PvP players certainly can, and do.

DDuke · February 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

ZoS doesn't seem to give 2 turds about a viable, sustainable Bow rotation right now. They seem to want all their DPS to be melee. As it stands right now, based on my own testing with a NB on the PTS, there isn't anything even remotely competitive with the Bow atm. Burst dmg in PvP is fine, but sustainable, competitive dps for dungeons and trials, the Bow isn't even on par with any of the ranged casting builds.

There have been multiple attempts to start a conversation about it here on this forum, and it's generally met with criticism from people who think the only dps that matters is melee and they think that melee should be 50% stronger than ranged. Right now, 8k-9k DPS is the best sustainable DPS I've seen posted or discussed, while almost every class is getting 12k-15k with DW or a 2H rotation.

If something doesn't change, Bow builds will not even be welcome in trial runs. I hope I am wrong. I keep hoping I am missing something and someone will figure out a way to make the Bow viable in 1.6, but I haven't seen any proof yet.

My personal opinion is it's because ZoS doesn't want to make the Bow too strong in PvP. It's a shame that PvP effects PvE like that, but it's the sad truth. And it will always be like that in games where both co exist. PvP will ALWAYS trump PvE, and that is just the sad truth about developmental changes because dungeon bosses can't appeal to the developers about how they want everything nerfed, but PvP players certainly can, and do.

It is especially sad, because Bow has never been "OP" in PvP. In fact, it became worse after 1.5 & the nerf to stealth damage.

The only thing it was, was popular. I doubt that'll be the case after 1.6, and I'm quite certain that would've been the case even without nerfing Bow.

Ehh... whatever. I'm going DW/DW anyhow.
Still, makes me sad that there won't be free AP in form of snipers anymore.

Stalwart385 · February 2015

Melee/Ranged argument aside. I don't see why it should be that different from staff builds. Is ranged physical damage too OP against light only players? With the change to mob armor and spell resist, what about light wearing mobs mobs? I'll try testing it.

This sucks to here. Thanks for letting me know though. Hard to test dps without a pts testing group.

Alphashado · February 2015

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Hard to test dps without a pts testing group.

Indeed. Here is a thread you may find interesting in regards to how challenging it is to test viable builds. Especially on the PTS. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/140994/formal-request-for-target-dummies-1-6-is-a-perfect-example/p1

Please feel free to help us keep the above thread alive if you are interested, or submit a /feedback in-game if you agree.

Fatalyis · February 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Ehh... whatever. I'm going DW/DW anyhow.

I was pretty dead set on staying Magicka-based until I played a DW/DW toon on PTS.

Asgari · February 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

ZoS doesn't seem to give 2 turds about a viable, sustainable Bow rotation right now. They seem to want all their DPS to be melee. As it stands right now, based on my own testing with a NB on the PTS, there isn't anything even remotely competitive with the Bow atm. Burst dmg in PvP is fine, but sustainable, competitive dps for dungeons and trials, the Bow isn't even on par with any of the ranged casting builds.

There have been multiple attempts to start a conversation about it here on this forum, and it's generally met with criticism from people who think the only dps that matters is melee and they think that melee should be 50% stronger than ranged. Right now, 8k-9k DPS is the best sustainable DPS I've seen posted or discussed, while almost every class is getting 12k-15k with DW or a 2H rotation.

If something doesn't change, Bow builds will not even be welcome in trial runs. I hope I am wrong. I keep hoping I am missing something and someone will figure out a way to make the Bow viable in 1.6, but I haven't seen any proof yet.

My personal opinion is it's because ZoS doesn't want to make the Bow too strong in PvP. It's a shame that PvP effects PvE like that, but it's the sad truth. And it will always be like that in games where both co exist. PvP will ALWAYS trump PvE, and that is just the sad truth about developmental changes because dungeon bosses can't appeal to the developers about how they want everything nerfed, but PvP players certainly can, and do.

It is especially sad, because Bow has never been "OP" in PvP. In fact, it became worse after 1.5 & the nerf to stealth damage.

The only thing it was, was popular. I doubt that'll be the case after 1.6, and I'm quite certain that would've been the case even without nerfing Bow.

Ehh... whatever. I'm going DW/DW anyhow.
Still, makes me sad that there won't be free AP in form of snipers anymore.

How is bow useless in PvP? it actually got more popular after the nerf to stealth and the buff to snipe with reduced cast time.

Poxheart · February 2015

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

ZoS doesn't seem to give 2 turds about a viable, sustainable Bow rotation right now. They seem to want all their DPS to be melee. As it stands right now, based on my own testing with a NB on the PTS, there isn't anything even remotely competitive with the Bow atm. Burst dmg in PvP is fine, but sustainable, competitive dps for dungeons and trials, the Bow isn't even on par with any of the ranged casting builds.

There have been multiple attempts to start a conversation about it here on this forum, and it's generally met with criticism from people who think the only dps that matters is melee and they think that melee should be 50% stronger than ranged. Right now, 8k-9k DPS is the best sustainable DPS I've seen posted or discussed, while almost every class is getting 12k-15k with DW or a 2H rotation.

If something doesn't change, Bow builds will not even be welcome in trial runs. I hope I am wrong. I keep hoping I am missing something and someone will figure out a way to make the Bow viable in 1.6, but I haven't seen any proof yet.

My personal opinion is it's because ZoS doesn't want to make the Bow too strong in PvP. It's a shame that PvP effects PvE like that, but it's the sad truth. And it will always be like that in games where both co exist. PvP will ALWAYS trump PvE, and that is just the sad truth about developmental changes because dungeon bosses can't appeal to the developers about how they want everything nerfed, but PvP players certainly can, and do.

It is especially sad, because Bow has never been "OP" in PvP. In fact, it became worse after 1.5 & the nerf to stealth damage.

The only thing it was, was popular. I doubt that'll be the case after 1.6, and I'm quite certain that would've been the case even without nerfing Bow.

Ehh... whatever. I'm going DW/DW anyhow.
Still, makes me sad that there won't be free AP in form of snipers anymore.

How is bow useless in PvP? it actually got more popular after the nerf to stealth and the buff to snipe with reduced cast time.

Yeah... I play with a guy right now that can drop 2.2K focused aim attacks on people. (Yes, they are vr14 and have high pvp ranks).

Wolfenbelle · February 2015

@Alphashado, your post is spot on. Absolutely true. I've played bow since reaching level 10 on my first character in April 2014, and have stuck with it all this time. But it is situational only. I use it as a support weapon in both PvP and PvE when I'm in groups. I use it a lot when soloing and can play at my own pace. But if I want to do serious DPS, I go with my 2h greatsword.

I love the bow, however, and wish it was less situational and a more viable sustained DPS weapon. In real medieval battles (as well as hunting for food) the bow was the go-to weapon of choice to avoid the dangers of hand-to-hand combat, or of getting too close to a game animal and risk having it wound or kill you. (Until the 20th Century and the discovery of antibiotics, even a minor wound could be fatal due to infection.) Until the invention of reliable firearms, bows and siege weapons were the one sure way to kill the enemy while minimizing risk to yourself and your troops. The English longbow is probably the deadliest ranged hand-held weapon ever invented prior to the invention of firearms.

Sadly, in this game, bows are nowhere near as important as their real life historical role. ESO bows are largely useless in many combat situations.

xaraan · February 2015

Bows aren't in a very good place in 1.6.

Also, I was pretty much told they don't want them to be as good as melee. Unfortunately, it's not like 5% worse, or 10% worse, it's like 25%+ worse combined with higher costs to resources vs similar melee skills than in 1.5. So your abilities cost more (sometimes twice what a melee weapon skill that does similar damage costs) and does less damage.

This is supposed to be because they are in less danger at range, which is BS IMO. Every dungeon run I've been on has plenty of ranged attackers that go after bow users immediately plus you are often outside of the range of many AoE heals and stuff like shards for stamina that are usually being thrown at boss. In PvP there are tons of ranged attacks and gap closers or even stuff like reflect on DKs.

Plus, when people want good DPS to run with them, they don't care if you are at range or melee, all they care about is the number. So if the number is low, then that weapon build is excluded from content just for that reason.

I have never had a problem with my bow build, even at launch when vet was much harder and NB and stam builds were crappy. After using it in 1.6 on PTS I immediately switched to my DW and started also leveling 2H on live.

Alphashado · February 2015

xaraan wrote: »

Bows aren't in a very good place in 1.6.
Plus, when people want good DPS to run with them, they don't care if you are at range or melee, all they care about is the number. So if the number is low, then that weapon build is excluded from content just for that reason.

Exactly this. The ONLY reason that a Bow should have slightly less DPS then melee is to prevent melee from being excluded or undesirable. At the end of an encounter, the final DPS from melee should be the same as a Bow, melee having slightly higher DPS potential, but having to move around a little more to compensate. The idea is for both styles to be equally effective so we have diversity and choice.

That isn't the case in 1.6. There is such a disparity between melee and Bow, that nobody will be using them. The Bow isn't even on par with ranged casting builds.

Kingdinguhling · February 2015

Honestly tis is my opinion but ZOS has given Melee DPS a lot more buffs 2 hander and dual wield. the problem is with all the gap closers a 2 hander can be on top of you and locking you down in a split second. I find that a Melee has the whole package

Gap Closer (Especially 2 hander has a high damage Closer)

Extra DPS due to being Melee

And all the good heals

It just seems to me that in PVP with gap closers being this utilized there really shouldn't be a bonus to Melee DPS.

it really puts them over the top because its so easy to get the jump on someone.

pppontus · February 2015

Bow is dead. Just imagine that the only weapons available are 1H&S, DW, 2H, Destro and Resto. There is no Bow anymore.

At least I've tried to feedback this multiple times in game and on the forums as well as report the bugged animations, but there has been no response so it seems safe to assume it's going to stay this way for a few months.

Edit: Not that it matters much to me anyway, I'll just never bring my Stamina build to a ranged fight

I mostly feel sorry for those who don't have that option.

Alphashado · February 2015

pppontus wrote: »

Bow is dead. Just imagine that the only weapons available are 1H&S, DW, 2H, Destro and Resto. There is no Bow anymore.

At least I've tried to feedback this multiple times in game and on the forums as well as report the bugged animations, but there has been no response so it seems safe to assume it's going to stay this way for a few months.

Edit: Not that it matters much to me anyway, I'll just never bring my Stamina build to a ranged fight I mostly feel sorry for those who don't have that option.

The sad thing is they are making one of the oldest and most established Archetypes in fantasy lore/gaming obsolete.

People enjoy playing with a Bow because they find it fun. The Archer/Ranger/Rogue is a staple of the fantasy genre going back to Tolkien, D&D, and even real life history and lore. We first learned about the legend of Robin Hood when we were barely old enough to talk for Pete's sake.

The Bow should be just as optimal as any other ranged DPS. It boggles the mind why it isn't. All we can do is hope that ZoS gives it some love in the near future. if they are worried about any buffs effecting burst dmg in PvP, all they would have to do is add this little nugget: "Bonus damage does not apply to other players". They could even add a passive to the Bow skill line that would increases bow damage over a sustained period of time, therefore not effecting PvP or burst damage, but rather buffing the bow for long, sustained boss fights.

TehMagnus · February 2015

TBH I wish bow was viable, I'd roll stamina DK DPS immediately since in close quarters it's doing very nice DPS, but as long as bow continues to suck: Not gonna happen.