New Alliance War Skills unlock at Rank 24?

Phaedrus · January 2015

Seriously ZOS? You have a chance to draw more people into PvP and give those PvP people a chance to shine and award them for countless hours of gameplay and you decide to just shove it back in their face?

Honestly what is the point of playing PvP past rank 24? Can you give me anything besides unlocking a skill point?

Please consider changing this to unlock these skills at a higher level.

s7732425ub17_ESO · January 2015

Holy crap. Do the new skills really unlock at rank 24? That is absurdly high and pretty much excludes all but the most hardcore players from using those skills.

Very poor decision. I would much rather see the skills unlock at a more reasonable Alliance level such as 14.

Iggybot · January 2015

Is this for all 4 new abilities? I'm only 21, got a lot of pvping to do before the patch goes live!

Phaedrus · January 2015

Iggybot wrote: »

Is this for all 4 new abilities? I'm only 21, got a lot of pvping to do before the patch goes live!

Guard and Vigor unlock at skill rank 10. Which is Alliance War Rank 24.

And this is way way way too low, takes 7.8 million AP to get to that rank, excludes no one from getting it, the most hardcore PvP players, imho, are at least rank 30 and the highest ranked player is 47.

Please reconsider this ZOS

timidobserver · January 2015

The divide in this thread is hilarious.

Guy that is under rank 24: OMG that is too high.
Guy that is over rank 24: OMG that is too low. What is the point of pvp.

WebBull · January 2015

Rank 24 is insanely high and excludes most players.

Phaedrus · January 2015

WebBull wrote: »

Rank 24 is insanely high and excludes most players.

It should!! If you want the skill you need to PvP. PvP players are forced to PvE in order to get the best gear all the time.

If you want PvP skills guess what...go PvP.

Rosveen · January 2015

You say you want to draw more people into PvP, how exactly would it help if new skills required a stupidly high PvP rank?

Phaedrus · January 2015

Rosveen wrote: »

You say you want to draw more people into PvP, how exactly would it help if new skills required a stupidly high PvP rank?

LOL at 24 being stupidly high first of all. And second of all gaining PvP rank requires one thing and one thing only, guess what that is? PvP-ing!!

So the more people that want those skills = the more people that will PvP

WebBull · January 2015

Phaedrus wrote: »

WebBull wrote: »

Rank 24 is insanely high and excludes most players.

It should!! If you want the skill you need to PvP. PvP players are forced to PvE in order to get the best gear all the time.

If you want PvP skills guess what...go PvP.

All I do is PvP and I am only rank 19. Granted I did not cheat/exploit my way to higher levels like many.

Black_Wolf88 · January 2015

people play pvp in many different ways. ganking, zergs, small groups, dueling and a lot more.
the ap gain in most of the ways can be quite slow, thus limiting most people from getting too high ranks.

to say that 24 isnt high is wrong. it depends on your point of view, however, for most people rank 24 is very high. I would guess that out of people who play pvp from casually to hardcore a very high % is below rank 20, probably even below 15.

Phaedrus · January 2015

Black_Wolf88 wrote: »

people play pvp in many different ways. ganking, zergs, small groups, dueling and a lot more.
the ap gain in most of the ways can be quite slow, thus limiting most people from getting too high ranks.

to say that 24 isnt high is wrong. it depends on your point of view, however, for most people rank 24 is very high. I would guess that out of people who play pvp from casually to hardcore a very high % is below rank 20, probably even below 15.

Ok maybe it's me, PvP Rank 24 seems really low to me but if there really aren't that many people there yet I guess it's ok.

I really don't think the percentages are that low though. Not to sound elitist or whatever but almost everyone I play with are above that level.

Also, what is the point of playing beyond 24? There is literally no advantage.

s7732425ub17_ESO · January 2015

If you look at the campaign leader boards, you see that the top 2% of players get 1.5 million AP or more per 30 days (NA EP). This means that 98% of players average less than 1.5 million AP per 30 days. And the average player gets substantially less AP per month because of play time constraints and splitting between PVP and PVE.

The time sink is huge. It will literally take half a year for a semi-hardcore player getting 1.5 million AP a month to unlock those skills. They are completely out of reach for any casuals. They should be unlocked at 3 million AP instead of 7.8.

Rosveen · January 2015

Phaedrus wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

You say you want to draw more people into PvP, how exactly would it help if new skills required a stupidly high PvP rank?

LOL at 24 being stupidly high first of all. And second of all gaining PvP rank requires one thing and one thing only, guess what that is? PvP-ing!!

So the more people that want those skills = the more people that will PvP

Not 24. I meant whatever rank is acceptable according to you, so 30+, as I understand. But IMO 24 is daunting enough for someone who's just starting.

ToRelax · January 2015

I think unlock at 24 is perfectly fine...

I have to admit I am 32 and yet don't care about AP or ranks at all (at least since I got to rank 24).

Rank 24 doesn't seem so high to me even though I know a lot of people who still haven't reached it.

Only thing I could think of is that PvE players may want those skills maybe, I don't like that you have to do so much PvE to be competitive in PvP (mainly Undaunted sets, I don't think the passives are worth the efford) and I wouldn't like if it would become the other way around now, too, either.

Phaedrus · January 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

I think unlock at 24 is perfectly fine...

I have to admit I am 32 and yet don't care about AP or ranks at all (at least since I got to rank 24).

Rank 24 doesn't seem so high to me even though I know a lot of people who still haven't reached it.

Only thing I could think of is that PvE players may want those skills maybe, I don't like that you have to do so much PvE to be competitive in PvP (mainly Undaunted sets, I don't think the passives are worth the efford) and I wouldn't like if it would become the other way around now, too, either.

Ya good points, you people are making me feel differently. PvP-ers don't want to be forced to PvE and so PvE-ers shouldn't be force to PvP.

I was just really looking forward to have something to strive for in PvP. Maybe next time.

Panda244 · February 2015

I had to PvE to get the Engine Guardian set and Undaunted Rank 9 for the passives, it was a grind.

So yes, you have to PvP to get Alliance Rank 24. It's a grind, deal with it. The two new abilities aren't "I Win" buttons either, Guard is rather useless since they ruined Reflect, and Vigor is only good for stamina builds, if you're using a heal...... as a DPS....... in PvE........

It takes about a week of casual play to get to Alliance War Rank 10, and about three weeks to get to Rank 20. It took generally the same amount of time to grind out Undaunted Rank 9 if you didn't already have it at Rank 6. The grind really isn't any longer, or shorter.... Rank 18 or higher is where all the good skills and passives should be, and it is. You shouldn't get any skills or passives below Rank 10 in my opinion.

You grind to get Undaunted Rank 9, you grind to get Alliance War Rank 24, both take a while, and both pay off in the end. The amount of "I want it to be easier!" threads on the forums is starting to dishearten me.

Zheg · February 2015

Panda244 wrote: »

I had to PvE to get the Engine Guardian set and Undaunted Rank 9 for the passives, it was a grind.

So yes, you have to PvP to get Alliance Rank 24. It's a grind, deal with it. The two new abilities aren't "I Win" buttons either, Guard is rather useless since they ruined Reflect, and Vigor is only good for stamina builds, if you're using a heal...... as a DPS....... in PvE........

It takes about a week of casual play to get to Alliance War Rank 10, and about three weeks to get to Rank 20. It took generally the same amount of time to grind out Undaunted Rank 9 if you didn't already have it at Rank 6. The grind really isn't any longer, or shorter.... Rank 18 or higher is where all the good skills and passives should be, and it is. You shouldn't get any skills or passives below Rank 10 in my opinion.

You grind to get Undaunted Rank 9, you grind to get Alliance War Rank 24, both take a while, and both pay off in the end. The amount of "I want it to be easier!" threads on the forums is starting to dishearten me.

Maybe you have a problem with math? Scroll up to the post above that points out 98% of players earn less than 1.5 mil AP per month, so it ends up taking more than 6 months depending on how many hours you dump into the grind. You're trying to compare this to the undaunted grind? Really? Investing the same amount of hours it would take you to earn 1.5 mil AP a month into running dungeons would get you to max Undaunted rank in no time at all. What's more, the 1.5 mil a month is GENEROUS considering EP typically has 'far' higher AP totals on leaderboards when compared to DC and AD due to how they play. Additionally, most people who currently sit at high pvp ranks benefited from AP gains higher than what is currently available on live. For a new player coming on, they have to work even harder than you did to gain access to a skill that will realistically take most people a year or more of grinding if they don't spend a majority of their play time pvp'ing.

And if I needed to take the argument even further, for the people who are already at that rank or above, and are fine with it remaining, what will you say when you decide you want to level an alt and have to now do this all over again just to get access to a skill that makes many builds viable?

Don't confuse "I want it to be realistic and not absurd" with "I want it now, whine, whine, whine."

WebBull · February 2015

Panda244 wrote: »

It takes about a week of casual play to get to Alliance War Rank 10, and about three weeks to get to Rank 20.

Sorry but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking out. None.

Recremen · February 2015

WebBull wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

It takes about a week of casual play to get to Alliance War Rank 10, and about three weeks to get to Rank 20.

Sorry but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking out. None.

No-sleep bad farming for weeks is not casual where you come from? Such strange customs in this foreign land, how exquisite!

BugCollector · February 2015

A good middle ground, in my opinion, would be if they unlock at rank 15 (First Sergeant).

That's still quite high for most players, although doable. Not so doable at rank 24. Means most PvE players won't ever get to use some of these highly promising skills.

Panda244 · February 2015

Recremen wrote: »

WebBull wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

It takes about a week of casual play to get to Alliance War Rank 10, and about three weeks to get to Rank 20.

Sorry but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking out. None.

No-sleep bad farming for weeks is not casual where you come from? Such strange customs in this foreign land, how exquisite!

My Imperial DK was rank 8 when he left Blackwater, I played casually there from 28-V1, then I grinded in Craglorn to v14, then I went back to PvP, in five days I was rank 19... And I didn't step foot in Thornblade, farming 10-30k Defense ticks at 6am with your friend, who happens to be Emperor on EP's buff server at the last keep? We got two 30k defense ticks in under an hour, it was 3 of us, versus 10-15 of them, given we got that much AP cause there was no one else defending with us, so all the defense ticks was ourz. But that's how you do it, don't go to Thornlag, find a nice fluffy buff server to farm idiots on.

These casuals @Recremen I wonder. Do they even AP?

Casual play for me is about 3-4hrs in Cyrodiil, 2hr break for Trials, food, Undaunted pledges, 3-12 more hours, until I fall asleep basically. So for me, getting rank 24, casually playing.. Do it in 2 months max...

madangrypally · February 2015

My biggest issue is I have 2 mains who I PvP with nearly equal. These two mains are Sorcerer and Templar and both are around 20-22 PvP Rank currently. (took 6 months break and coming back for Update 6).

It sucks because I really want to make a new sorcerer with a better race since the removal of soft cap but the idea of redoing all those PvP Ranks makes it unfeasible. I am happy with my Templar Race.

I will also be dropping my Templar as it seems to be the new FotM class and will be switching to my Nightblade who hasn't PvPed a whole lot. It sucks that I dont have the PvP rank that I earned on all my characters.

IMO they need to make PvP Ranks account bound. I know some disagree but if they plan on having PvP Rank 24 required I feel it would help. I dont care if i loose out of extra skill points.

Dymence · February 2015

It took me nearly a week of pvping every day on AD side to get from rank 8 to 12 to get barrier and caltrops unlocked.... Yeah, not really looking forward to the rank 24 grind.

Subtomik · February 2015

I would have to argue against rank 24 being considered a high rank simply based of zos's scale of how ranks work in the game.

To reach 24 can be daunting if you are not grinding for it or sure of what you are doing, but in the grand scale of things it's nothing.

I can't even remember how many months ago I was rank 24 and I'm barely half way to max rank as far as points go. And I think 3rd highest overall dc NA?

xaraan · February 2015

What makes 24 too high is that one of the most powerful stamina heals in the game is at that rank. Of course PvPers will love it b/c the hardcores will get it automatically and put them in an elite level vs other players and it really does take a long time to level (especially if you aren't in a zerg pvp guild where you get AP fastest). Magnitudes longer than any other skill line in the game (I've leveled up one guy in PvP, not looking forward to having to do it again and again on my alts that I play). But the real problem is that heal. Almost every skill in both the alliance war lines, though can have a use in PvE, is mostly useful in PvP and you can live without it in PvE. That one skill sticks out like a sore thumb IMO. They should replace it with something more pvp-centric IMO and a good stamina heal (maybe not that strong though) should have replaced the final skill in fighter's guild.

Majax · February 2015

Actually u cant move AvA skills in higher tier because the progression curve/time with AvA xp is too slowly.
U need to spend too many time in AvA to just reach rank 24.

McDoogs · February 2015

I think that a lot of people in here who think rank 24 is too low have spent a decent amount of time farming AP and as a result have unrealistic ideas of the time commitment required for an average new PvPer.

They probably also enjoy having a perceived advantage.