Maintenance for the week of November 25:
• [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)

Stats and Stat Categories - Could it have been better?

Lionxoft
Lionxoft
✭✭✭✭✭
Now, I'd like to preface this discussion that it is too little too late and the chances of a necessary overhaul are slim but that doesn't stop me from wishing the system was done correctly the first time or in this huge revamp that is 1.6. I went back and played some DC Universe Online and TES IV: Oblivion for a bit yesterday since ESO was crashing to login screen so often for me with no error. Playing an RPG in both an online MMO setting and an offline single player setting. One thing that was similar to each other was the statistic system that they had implemented or it was at least similar enough to make me wonder why it wasn't implemented in ESO in a similar fashion.

It should be noted that the excuse of "Well, they had to make it simple for console users" just won't cut it. DCUO is considered one of the best f2p titles on ps3/4 and soon to be Xbox One with cross play between playstation and PC servers. Oblivion, as most of you know received countless awards as an RPG and still holds the spot for my favorite game of all time. ESO had a chance to fill that spot but - Well, you know. Stuff happened.

In Oblivion, the stat categories are:
On561V7.png

In DCUO, the stat categories are:
It's a lowbie character. Flame off.. Damn, that's a Marvel reference. ;)
BeW5ZaS.png

Now while I think adopting all of Oblivion's various skills would be tedious and hard to understand after all this time with ESO's system I do think that adapting those skills to resemble what is shown in DCUO while keeping the integrity of the TES lore would be beneficial. I give a breakdown on how to update the system with minimal impact later in this post.


Now bear with me. I know most of you understand the stats and how they work but some might not. ZOS might be included in that conversation.

In DCUO:
  • Health - Obvious
  • Power - Similar to Magicka/Stamina. Does not determine magnitude of abilities but buffing this pool allows for more casts.
  • Defense - PvE centric defensive stat. This stat has no bearing in PvP combat.
  • Might - Determines the magnitude of damaging abilities. This could be compared to spells in ESO that cost magicka.
  • Restoration - Determines the magnitude of healing abilities.
  • Precision - Determines the magnitude of weapon attacks and some damaging abilities. This could be compared to abilities that cost Stamina in ESO.
  • Toughness - PvP centric defensive stat. This stat has no bearing against raid bosses or other PvE enemies.
  • Dominance - This stat determines the strength of defensive abilities and cc effects. (Shield Strength = Restoration + Dominance)
  • Crit Chance - (Not Shown) - Determines crit chance for damaging abilities
  • Crit Damage - (Not Shown) - Determines crit magnitude for damaging abilities
  • Crit heal chance - (Not Shown) - Determines chances for heals to crit
  • Crit heal magnitude - (Not Shown) - Determines magnitude of crit healing
Disregard the Combat Rating and equipped CR in the screenshot however it should be noted that it could translate to Champion Rank very well.



Now with all that said I think it's important to point out how the system in ESO falls short. Below are a few examples. Other examples can be mentioned however I believe the few below will get the point across and save non-white space on your monitor.

Healers in ESO:
  • Healers with the current stat system are not only entitled to the best healing magnitude and crit but this also translates to dps stats as well. Why does spell damage equate to heal power? Why are healing spells affected by a dps crit statistic? Why not create a restoration stat along with restoration chance/magnitude % that solely healing ability strength?

Magicka based DPS in ESO:
  • (See "Healers in ESO" above vice versa)

Harness Magicka, Healing Ward and hardened ward shield stack
  • This makes no sense. I have a sorc and I'll be the first to admit that shields scaling off of an offensive stat is bone headed. Best defense/damage prev + best dps + best healing magnitude? As the tooltip once put it best "LOLOL".



How to fix it if it were possible due to ZOS' limited resources
(We are waiting on PvP content/gear nearly after a year so it's my assumption the resources are limited.)

Convert magicka, stamina and health to strictly resource pools that do not determine magnitude. Introduce new stats to determine magnitude where MHS used to.

Introduce or reintroduce the following stat categories (Working titles):
  • Endurance - Determines shield strength (Wp+Ed=SS (Not 1:1 of course)), defensive bonuses (Extra damage mitigation or health buffs), Block mitigation and CC effectiveness. Def bonus example would be "Spiked armor". EX: Ability bonus = Endurance + Armor/Spell Resist or something to that nature.
  • Willpower - Determines restorative ability base magnitude. Determines shield strength (Wp+Ed=SS (Not 1:1 of course) )
  • Weapon Power - Determines weapon based abilities damaging ability magnitude
  • Spell Power - Determines magicka based damaging ability magnitude
  • Heal Critical Chance - Determines critical heal chance
  • Heal Critical Magnitude - Determines critical heal magnitude
  • Crit Chance - Determines critical chance for damaging abilities.
  • Crit Damage - Determines critical magnitude for damaging abilities.
  • Keep regens the same. I don't see a reason to change them.
  • If PvP were to ever need it then it should have it's own armor/spell resist statistics. Not sure what to think on this one since PvE/PvP gear is shared and the content release schedule of ESO is awful. Hard to tell at this point.

Now it must be stated that with those changes or introduced stat categories itemization and/or set bonuses would need to change in addition to how abilities are scaled or bonuses applied however I think it's more than possible to make some unique builds with them. I believe that the problem we are seeing on PTS with maxing one stat category, magicka for example that affects a vast array of restorative, defensive and damaging would be resolved with this kind of an update. I'd like to point out that this isn't a bashing on magicka builds vs stamina builds. That's not a discussion I want to get into but rather the dual (or more) benefit of stat pools determining magnitude of the array of abilities in addition to the actual resources available.

The solution wouldn't be an easy one to make and it would require a large overhaul however I think this or something near this concept would have served the playerbase of ESO better in 1.6 than it currently does.

You can say I'm stupid or whatever the internet throws my way but this is my opinion. You can agree 100%, partially agree or totally disagree. That's ok.
Edited by Lionxoft on 23 February 2015 01:14
  • Panda244
    Panda244
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Insightful post... But I doubt they'll ever change the stats much, if they do, they need to get rid of the number inflation that we all know and hate first. I like the idea of adding "Endurance" into play, to help minus the gap between Stamina and Magic players with using the same statistic for defense, but I like being able to Sword/Board with my Dragonknight in robes, and Endurance will kind of ruin the point of that.

    As far as Healing Critical Chance goes, absolutely not, sorry. Critical Chance is critical chance, in every MMO I've played it's always been for heals and for damage, however, you did need different gear to heal correctly in SWTOR, healers wanted Alacrity and Surge, as opposed to DPS wanting Power and Critical Damage, you'd use different augments or enchants to achieve that effect, so yeah. Herpa Derpa, waffles.
    Aldmeri Dominion For Life!
    Crassus Licinius II - DK - V14 - Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade NA (The Dragonknight that refuses to go Vampire.)
    N'tel Arlena - NB - V14 - Retired Sap Tank of Haderus NA, Harasser of Many (Also, not a vampire. Goes by nickname Nutella.)

    #FreeZazeer
    #FreeGooey
    #FreeAsgari
    #FreeAoE
    #FreeSubtomik
    #FreeMBF

    Officially Resigned From Cyrodiil As Of 4/15/15 10:24 PM EST.
  • Lionxoft
    Lionxoft
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Panda244 wrote: »
    As far as Healing Critical Chance goes, absolutely not, sorry. Critical Chance is critical chance, in every MMO I've played it's always been for heals and for damage, however, you did need different gear to heal correctly in SWTOR, healers wanted Alacrity and Surge, as opposed to DPS wanting Power and Critical Damage, you'd use different augments or enchants to achieve that effect, so yeah. Herpa Derpa, waffles.

    Now correct me if I'm wrong however most MMO utilize the role system though and it augments those critical stats and abilities correct? That might be what makes the difference in this conversation.
  • madangrypally
    madangrypally
    ✭✭✭✭

    To late for them at this point. (that being said ESO has still gone through some major changes since live. lol).

    The more stats a game has the more complicated it is for coding and its calculations.

    Remove Spell/Weapon Critical Chance/Damage/Penetration. Add:
    Critical Strike Chance: This effects a players chance to score critical strikes.
    Power: This increases the value magicka/stamina increases damage by. IE: 1000 magicka = 10 damage. With 10 power 1000 magicka = 11 damage.
    Penetration: Increases damage penetration.

    In other words remove the separation from spell and physical attacks.
  • Panda244
    Panda244
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lionxoft wrote: »
    Panda244 wrote: »
    As far as Healing Critical Chance goes, absolutely not, sorry. Critical Chance is critical chance, in every MMO I've played it's always been for heals and for damage, however, you did need different gear to heal correctly in SWTOR, healers wanted Alacrity and Surge, as opposed to DPS wanting Power and Critical Damage, you'd use different augments or enchants to achieve that effect, so yeah. Herpa Derpa, waffles.

    Now correct me if I'm wrong however most MMO utilize the role system though and it augments those critical stats and abilities correct? That might be what makes the difference in this conversation.

    Aye this is usually true, but since classes in ESO aren't typical classes I don't know what'd you augment the stats for, Templars are technically the healers of ESO but they can DPS and Tank, same with Nightblades and Dragonknights and Sorcerers... They all have a "technical" role to play, but they can do any of the three successfully. I dunno man... I dunno :confounded:
    Aldmeri Dominion For Life!
    Crassus Licinius II - DK - V14 - Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade NA (The Dragonknight that refuses to go Vampire.)
    N'tel Arlena - NB - V14 - Retired Sap Tank of Haderus NA, Harasser of Many (Also, not a vampire. Goes by nickname Nutella.)

    #FreeZazeer
    #FreeGooey
    #FreeAsgari
    #FreeAoE
    #FreeSubtomik
    #FreeMBF

    Officially Resigned From Cyrodiil As Of 4/15/15 10:24 PM EST.
Sign In or Register to comment.