Why are people complaining about sorcs?

LegacyDM · February 2015

I don't know about 1.6 but in 1.5 some of the top people in EP on NA are sorcs and they own everything. Using impulse, blockade, crystal shards, bat swarm, crushing shock, bolt escape, negate, while weaving light and heavy attacks they dominate everything.

I understand that you will always have your top level players compared to the general population, but they aren't doing anything very special and what they are doing isn't that complicated or hard.

So why is everyone saying sorcs suck? Is this more of a L2P issue? (Not being snarky just trying to understand why people are struggling when the tools are available and easy to use for sorcs to dominate). Seriously all you gotta do is BE around, stun, impulse, bat swarm, blockade and rinse and repeat. For single dps whack with crystal, crushing shock, light/heavy and BE.

In pve, I'm able to solo public dungeons using pets as tanks. It's easy mode compared to trying to get through a solo dungeon with a nightblade.

NordJitsu · February 2015

Because Sorcs are the weakest class in the game.

The players who are good with Sorcs are just amazing. Imagine if they were using DKs.

LegacyDM · February 2015

NordJitsu wrote: »

Because Sorcs are the weakest class in the game.

The players who are good with Sorcs are just amazing. Imagine if they were using DKs.

That's my point, they are not doing anything amazing. They bolt into crowd, hit impulse spam devouring swarm throw in a blockade for good measure. On single target dps they spam crushing shock, bolt escape for the stun and throw in curse and crystal shards for the knockdown and damage for good measure. How is this weak?

Not to mention their magicka management is amazing. They don't have to split between stamina like other classes. They also get nearly a full bar of spell shield.

You haven't provided anything tangible in your response other than they are weak. I'm not convinced.

NordJitsu · February 2015

Well I'm not going to bother trying to convince you in this thread.

There are dozens of threads explaining in detail what issues Sorcs have. If you're really interested in learning, you'll go read one of those.

My guess is that you're not really asking an honest question but instead that you started a pointless thread to flame bait people you disagree with.

Shunravi · February 2015

The concept is quite simple. People chose the sorc class to be the caster in ESO, because the word sorcerer invokes the concept of 'caster class.' Unfortunately, the sorcerer ranks third out of four for endgame caster dps.

People thought 'caster dps' and got conjurer, cc mage, with a touch of lightning. That's why there are complaints.

If you are asking, then you have not been paying attention.

LegacyDM · February 2015

NordJitsu wrote: »

Well I'm not going to bother trying to convince you in this thread.

There are dozens of threads explaining in detail what issues Sorcs have. If you're really interested in learning, you'll go read one of those.

My guess is that you're not really asking an honest question but instead that you started a pointless thread to flame bait people you disagree with.

Actually I am asking an honest question. Why did you respond with nothing tangible other than to accuse me of flame baiting? Sounds like someone's doing a derail flame bait tactic themselves to protect their precious main. If you don't like why I have to say put me on ignore.

LegacyDM · February 2015

Shunravi wrote: »

The concept is quite simple. People chose the sorc class to be the caster in ESO, because the word sorcerer invokes the concept of 'caster class.' Unfortunately, the sorcerer ranks third out of four for endgame caster dps.

People thought 'caster dps' and got conjurer, cc mage, with a touch of lightning. That's why there are complaints.

If you are asking, then you have not been paying attention.

I play a sorcs as an alt. although true, I haven't tried it in end game raid or trials so I can't speak to the end game dps. However, I think it's balanced in pvp and solo pve. As stated before, I have no problems soloing public dungeons with pets. It's easy mode compared to playing a shadow shabby stabby nightblade. In pvp, sorcerers are pretty powerful and they are not hard to play. Bolt around and pew pew.

Sublime · February 2015

@joshdm2001_ESO‌ Did you ever play a sorc in Cyrodiil?

A1exeR · February 2015

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

The concept is quite simple. People chose the sorc class to be the caster in ESO, because the word sorcerer invokes the concept of 'caster class.' Unfortunately, the sorcerer ranks third out of four for endgame caster dps.

People thought 'caster dps' and got conjurer, cc mage, with a touch of lightning. That's why there are complaints.

If you are asking, then you have not been paying attention.

I play a sorcs as an alt. although true, I haven't tried it in end game raid or trials so I can't speak to the end game dps. However, I think it's balanced in pvp and solo pve. As stated before, I have no problems soloing public dungeons with pets. It's easy mode compared to playing a shadow shabby stabby nightblade. In pvp, sorcerers are pretty powerful and they are not hard to play. Bolt around and pew pew.

When you close SO and DSA veteran and link your DPS you get right to speak about a sorc in PVE.
The fact that you have no problems with the solo dungeons nobody cares. They are for noobs.

Morvul · February 2015

Sorc in 1.5:
- super strong in solo-PvE (but who cares??!!)
- OP in group-PvP (because auf negate - get's nerfed to hell in 1.6)
- survivable in small-scale PvP (Bolt and Shields) but can't kill things (low damage which is mostly reflectable to boot)
- useless in group-PvE (weak tanks, weak healers, low dps - negate gives awesome group utility though)

Sorc in 1.6 as per current info:
- weak in solo-PvE (but who cares, they still CAN do the content)
- meh in Group-PvP (mobile but squishy, decent damage but does not really bring anything remarkable to the group)
- OP or weak in small scale PvP, depending on what they fight. (good burst, good mobility, survivable against casters, squishy against stamina-melee)
- weak in group-PvE (good ranged-singletarget-DPS, but weak tanks, useless healers, weak AoE, no option for high-dps melee builds, no group-utility what so ever)

Digiman · February 2015

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

I don't know about 1.6 but in 1.5 some of the top people in EP on NA are sorcs and they own everything. crystal shards, bolt escape, negate, while weaving light and heavy attacks they dominate everything.

I understand that you will always have your top level players compared to the general population, but they aren't doing anything very special and what they are doing isn't that complicated or hard.

So why is everyone saying sorcs suck? Is this more of a L2P issue? (Not being snarky just trying to understand why people are struggling when the tools are available and easy to use for sorcs to dominate). Seriously all you gotta do is BE around, stun, impulse, bat swarm, blockade and rinse and repeat. For single dps whack with crystal, crushing shock, light/heavy and BE.

In pve, I'm able to solo public dungeons using pets as tanks. It's easy mode compared to trying to get through a solo dungeon with a nightblade.

Fixed

Seriously? Your ultimate counter argument is become vampire or stick to other abilities from skill lines other people can use? You do realize that the examples you cited are only used groups of zergs with DK's to talon grip you to death in.

Sorcerers are less then okay.

LegacyDM · February 2015

Sublime wrote: »

@joshdm2001_ESO‌ Did you ever play a sorc in Cyrodiil?

Yes and the top 2 ranked players in EP and current emperor as of last night on thornblade are sorcs. I've faced these guys in pvp many times. They aren't doing anything crazy. Bolt escape and pew pew with the skills listed above in previous post.

Glory · February 2015

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

@joshdm2001_ESO‌ Did you ever play a sorc in Cyrodiil?

Yes and the top 2 ranked players in EP and current emperor as of last night on thornblade are sorcs. I've faced these guys in pvp many times. They aren't doing anything crazy. Bolt escape and pew pew with the skills listed above in previous post.

The reason they are top ranked is because they are amazing players, as others have said. What others are pointing towards is that if these players played DK's or the other FotM, they would be even stronger.

Sorcs have crap instant damage, poor self heals, and are supposed to rely on pets to do damage which is laughable.

DeaconFrost · February 2015

So.... no fix anytime soon?

Mettaricana · February 2015

i agree my sorc is kinda ruined unless the only build i use is a staff and light other than that theres like 1-2 builds that actually work. take away a light armor or a staff and they suck badly

Joy_Division · February 2015

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

In pve, I'm able to solo public dungeons using pets as tanks.

Spoken from someone with vast experience in all aspects of the game...

Emma_Overload · February 2015

Let me sum it up for you, OP:

#1) Sorcs have low DPS compared to other classes, so they have trouble grouping for DPS-intensive content like Trials. Nobody wants them on their raid!

#2) Sorcs' only useful self-heal, Critical Surge, has been given an insane, game-breaking nerf. Heal-per-second have been limited by a cooldown! That means that Sorcs now have trouble fighting large groups of tough mobs without dying.

#3) The pets are overrated. The clannfear that tanked for you in that low level solo dungeon doesn't last more than 5 seconds in Upper Craglorn.

Weng · February 2015

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Because Sorcs are the weakest class in the game.

The players who are good with Sorcs are just amazing. Imagine if they were using DKs.

That's my point, they are not doing anything amazing. They bolt into crowd, hit impulse spam devouring swarm throw in a blockade for good measure. On single target dps they spam crushing shock, bolt escape for the stun and throw in curse and crystal shards for the knockdown and damage for good measure. How is this weak?

Not to mention their magicka management is amazing. They don't have to split between stamina like other classes. They also get nearly a full bar of spell shield.

You haven't provided anything tangible in your response other than they are weak. I'm not convinced.

That works only against weak players in pvp. Imagine no one stays in the bat swarm, but people move around and load all their ranged AEs on the bat swarm. Happens all the time and the vamp sorc is down really fast. The only strength of bat swarm is that you can hardly see it in zergs and there is no big red circle on the ground.

The hard hitting spells can be reflected, DKs are the master in this discipline. Stamina builds easily break the stun of bolt escape, can even dodge roll crystal shard and win the resource fight against a Sorc in melee range (charge is the gap closer here).

In 1.6 light armor, the typical armor of a magicka sorc, is nerfed. A stamina build with Sorc is bad, because there are no good synergies with the class. Basically it is only bound armor as stamina version. For example DK gets two stamina base damage skills in 1.6 and they work really well for a melee/bow wielding DK.

Cody · February 2015

I USED to think sorcs were weak, but lately.... no.

NBs are the weakest class in the game due to their lack of a good self heal and a class based damage shield.

Ourorboros · February 2015

OP, your own description of a powerful sorc includes only two class skills and and ultimate. The rest are skills available to all classes. The proof of sorc weakness is in this very assertion. To be viable at all, sorcs HAVE to rely on non-class skills. That cannot be said about any other class.

rhubbert_ESO · February 2015

The only people making sense here are the ones rating the class based on situations.

Making general statements about a class's worth is folly.

My biggest complaint is that the nerf to Critical Surge will basically end my main character which is a stamina based build using a two hander and Critical Surge for self-heals.

Sorc is not "under-powered" in general, they are simply not as good at the aspects of the game that most people enjoy late game, that is: DSA, Trials, etc.

Aeratus · February 2015

Sorc's underpoweredness in 1.5 is mainly in PVE. Their dps is significantly lower than that of DKs and NBs at the high end. The dps of magicka sorc is about 400 behind DKs. Even the dps of stamina sorc is about 200-250 behind DKs. In terms of AOE dps for long trash pulls in Sanctum, sorcs are even farther behind DKs. In PVE, there is nothing that a sorc do that makes the class valuable in terms of the basic functions of dps, healing, and tanking. Also, elite groups don't need negates in trials (negates are only needed or less experienced AA groups).

In PVP, sorcs still do some things better than other classes, like being the most mobile of all classes, and having the most tactically important ultimate among all classes.

In PVP, sorcs aren't that bad. If you are searching for true justification as to why sorcs are underpowered and are looking mainly in terms of pvp, you won't find it. However, PVPers are notoriously known for whining about everything, and have jumped on the bandwagon started by PVE sorcs.

Aeratus · February 2015

So just to add to my above post (since we don't have the edit feature), I think PVP sorcs have been taking advantage of sorc problems in PVE to justify buffs to the sorc class in PVP.

Artemiisia · February 2015

The argument from sorc not getting into raids, aint valued argument, its about skill and showing you know how to play your sorc, I have finished every trial and have no trouble getting into speed runs of any kind.

Just prove to the people that you like, you worth bringing, and yeah sure you might not be hodor material but hey, 98% of the world aint, so stop comparing every sorc to the top.

People post pictures of the top players of the trials, and out of them there is two sorcs, hodor people and they probably like myself never actually complained about the sorcs, they adapted and proofed their worth

once I saw someone write this on forums and it forever made me feel like I made the right choice in class:

If you see an amazing sorc, just imagine what they could do with a DK

Sorc dps = hardmode playing
DK dps = easymode playing

You can choice whatever fits your gamestyle

Aeratus · February 2015

Artemiisia wrote: »

If you see an amazing sorc, just imagine what they could do with a DK

Sorc dps = hardmode playing
DK dps = easymode playing

You can choice whatever fits your gamestyle

That comment was for PVP, where there are numerous factors that come into play.

But in PVE dps, "skill" is mostly one-dimensional, and that is framed in terms of how much dps you do.

And "skill" cannot make up for dps difference between classes in this circumstance.