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[Weapon Ultimates | Bow] An in-depth Suggestion

Sublime
Sublime
✭✭✭✭
Hey folks, as you all probably know most current skill trees have a
corresponding ultimate, with the weapon skills being the major exception. As this is certainly something that can be built on, I decided it might be worth giving it a shot.

This first thread is about introducing the series and is only about one weapon. I separated the skill-trees in order to make it easier to keep the discussion focussed on a single skill. The other ultimates are already drafted out but still need some refinement.

I want to point out that this series is aimed at the far future and aims to improve/change/discuss the suggestions. I only gave small hints at the animations themselves because I'm really bad at drawing, so the benefit would have been marginal at best.

I also want to emphasize the importance of an ultimate not just being another special skill, but actually feeling unique. This can measured by something called playmaking potential. That means an ultimate has to give its user the opportunity make a significant impact on the fight. Negate, especially in PvP, is a good example, if placed at the right spot at the right time, it can win you fights with 20+ participants on each side.

While this is only its potential, that does not mean that every use is that impactful, the idea is to promote the intelligent use of an ability.

To get the ultimates to match their skill-line, I looked at the passives and designed the abilities in such a way, that they either synergize with the existing passives or add to them in a meaningful way.

In the end these discussions can be separated into two sections. The first one is about the concept, how it fits into the game and brings a new dimension to the current skill line without going out of ist characteristics. The second one is about numbers, Riot Ypherion once said the following about a unit: "the damage, slow and damage shred(reduction) can all be tuned to anywhere from useless to ridiculously overpowered on a smooth gradient", and I think the same holds true for a lot of things in ESO.

This is about giving the developers a useful suggestion for weapon ultimates, yes it is very hard without testing, but I'll try my best to reduce the amount of testing needed to a minimum, so they can focus their energy on aspects we cannot help them with.

All numbers are based off a veteran rank 14 character on the 1.5.8 patch, with all stats around the softcaps (yes that's not easily doable but makes it easier to discuss the numbers). All numbers are non-crits.

Considering that there are both PvP and PvE in the game, it is important to make every single skill important in both parts.

So let's dive in with the first weapon…

Bow (Arrow of the Divines)

Passives:
  • Long Shots: Bonus damage against distant targets
  • Accuracy: Additional Weapon Critical
  • Ranger: Reduced Stamina cost for Bow abilities
  • Hawk Eye: Increased damage against vulnerable targets
  • Hasty Retreat: Bonus movement speed after using Roll-Dodge

Those passives can be broken down to the following characteristics:
  • Long Range
  • High accuracy
  • Agility

With these characteristics it gets pretty clear, that ZOS had the general fantasy archer in mind, who can hit a target from a far distance with maximum effectiveness and is good at evading damage through superior positioning and speed.
Unfortunately this skill is already in the game in the form of snipe and its morphs.

Another problem is the high numbers of snipe in PvP, meaning that implementing another damage intense skill would not add another dimension to the skill line.

This results in the conclusion that long range, good aim, high precision (high damage) are already fairly good represented in the game. While there are also two skills which contribute to agility, I think that they are only useful in certain situations and only allow the player to control the enemy, whereas the effect on the caster himself is rather small.

Additionally there is almost no kiting in the game at the moment (except from Bolt Escape), so I thought the bow might be the right spot to add it to.

So here's the skill at last:

Tooltip:
Arrow of the Divines

Sends an arrow, powerful enough to penetrate each and every armor, flying through the battlefield, knocking back all enemies in its path, dealing 650 physical damage and passively grants you a divine blessing boosting your battlefield mobility, which is doubled for a short duration after activation.

Facts (Active):
  • Cost: 200 (50s cooldown with 1.6 ultimate generation)
  • Cast time: none
  • Range: 38m
  • Doubles the bonus movement speed from the passive for 6s:
    • Melee target: 30%
    • Ranged target: 20%
  • The arrow is a skillshot, meaning it is like a projectile AOE, it has to be aimed like an AOE but only has the are of effect of an arrow.
  • The arrow flies through targets, meaning that it cannot be reflected, but will be affected by the alliance war skill that changes the path of projectiles, which will come in 1.6.
    OhzNLnz.png
  • Knocks targets back 10m (If the CC does not get applied the target takes 10% additional damage for 10s instead, 20% if affected twice, by two players)
  • The knock-back is in the same direction as the arrow travels, i.e. the target gets knocked in the air if the arrow hits from below.
    xiEeXtv.png
  • If the arrow hits from above the target gets knocked down and recieves additional fall damage equal to a 10m fall as representation of the power of the knock-down
    2EJy4Kk.png
  • The two versions of additional fall damage are also a compensation for the reduced AOE of the skill, when it gets used at a very large or very small angle
  • The arrow has to actually hit the hitbox in order to have an effet, it's a skillshot so the smart-aim function will not help
  • The skill can hit multiple targets at once so it is subject to the AOE caps

Facts (Passive):
  • The permanent passive movement speed bonus depends on the weapon the attacked person is using:
    • Melee target: 15%
    • Ranged target: 10%
  • The passive is activated by attacking an enemy with a bow attack (light/heavy attack or skill)
  • Duration: 2s
  • The passive movement speed does not stack
  • The duration of the passive cannot be stacked (the buff falls off after 2s of not
    attacking, no matter how many attacks have been executed)

Some comments:
The 10% additional damage against CC-immune/blocking targets is to make it competitive with flawless dawnbreaker, it affects all the damage a target takes so it will be a huge DPS boost. The players are vulnerable to the 10% damage boost as well, otherwise the skill would be close to useless if it gets blocked, due to it's low damage.

The fact that it travels through units gives it insane playmaking potential, it can knock groups off ledges or dispatch the enemies formation, 10m is a lot so the displacement will be significant.

The fact that it cannot be countered by reflects gives PvP players a significant tool to work with, it is an ultimate though so it has to be used carfully.

The passive movement speed gives bow users a new tool to work with, it can either be used to kite melee players, who rely on gap-closers or as a PvE dps to make it easier to avoid red circles.

Pro's and Con's:
  • + Huge CC and kiting potential allows for good positioning in combat
  • + Gives a strong DPS to PvE groups and against CC-immune (≈rather tanky/hard to kill) players
  • - Hard to get the maximum efficiency
  • - The skill itself only deals rather low to medium damage
  • - Easily visible cast animation -> all friends an foes will know what's coming when you use it, so they will prepare (I put it as a minus point because allies usually know when you use your ultimate anyway, and due to the importance of feeding the enemy as few information as possible; an enemy can't prepare against something he doesn't know is coming)
Edited by Sublime on 14 February 2015 02:48
EU | For those who want to improve their behaviour: the science behind shaping player bahaviour (presentation)
  • sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO
    this is what happens to Bow users

    Screenshot_20141012_154844_zps53eab57f.png
    YOU GET THE FLESH SEARED FROM YOUR BONES XD



    Edited by sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO on 31 January 2015 17:47
  • vontariel
    vontariel
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    Great idea!!!
    To be honest I had something similar in mind and wanted to post here. I also thought about railgun-like shot passing all targets in it's path, although I took slightly different approach than you. My main reason is that, the bow user place is supporting/assassin role -> eliminating/disabling high priority targets (healers, mages, other assassins) to help more sustain oriented fighters do their job. By careful positioning and properly choosing moment of using his ultimate, archer can literally put down for a moment whole column of enemies thus creating opportunity to burst lying opponents down (exploit weakness) and giving much needed breathing window for archer's party, while dealing some damage at cast it's not it's main priority.
    For morphs one increases exploiting part further, by decreasing blocking and increasing it's cost it helps to turn favor to one side. Because of short duration, affected party can retaliate rather quickly, so it encourage to quick dispatching off affected enemies. Also it diminishes block-casting and similar mechanics by great deal. Second one works in similar way to flawless dawnbraker with a Longshots like twist. Dawnbreaker offers much less utility, but it has stable damage increase.

    Thunderous shot - targeting like any single target ability. It draws line between caster and target hurting all targets in 40m (2-3m wide) AoE path, with low-medium damage (400-500 can crit) and knocking any affected target down. Can't be blocked. If target cant be knocked down it takes additional 50% damage from this skill.
    Cost 200-250.

    Disrupting shot (1st morph) - increase block cost for affected targets by 200% and decrease block mitigation by 50% for 5 sec. If target is too powerful for that effect, increase damage done to that target by 30% for 5 seconds.

    Charged shots (2nd morph) - while slotted increase damage dealt with bow by 5% (0-10m)/10%(10-20m)/15%(20+m).

    And I'm aware that numbers need some...calibrations :)
  • Sublime
    Sublime
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    I really like the suggestion of the 2-3m AOE along the 40m range, it makes the skill a bit more suited to MMORPG's since it would not be so hard to land, which makes it easier to use for less skilled players.

    The decision offered by the morphs is great too, either go for a damage spike and empowered group play with Disrupting Shot, or for the long-ranged sniper who kills enemies from afar.

    The only problem I see, is the 15% bonus with snipe. I suggest to first change the range bonus to 0%(0-10m)/5%(10-20m)/10%(20-35m)/15%(35m+), which would encourage close-up combat, which is effectively the most efficient counterplay against archer and it would tune the bonus a bit down. This would, kind of, teach new players how to play against archers.

    Second I suggest to make the bonus gated, I don't know how, but 15% bonus damage is a lot. Either that or reduce it to something like 0%/1%/2%/4%.
    EU | For those who want to improve their behaviour: the science behind shaping player bahaviour (presentation)
  • vontariel
    vontariel
    ✭✭✭
    While i agree with your reasoning, i`d like to remind you, that for most part in PvP all but large battles are rather held in close-medium range (PvP is full of gap-closers and mobility skills), and it's bonus will stay at 0-5% for most time with proposed by you numbers, making using this morph less desirable in terms of power output especially compared to other one (great defense debuff) and flat 13% increase of dawnbreaker. It takes only player/monster on your face to disable your morph bonus - keep that in mind.
    I thought, that in toe-to-toe fight, archer will still have portion of power bonus of morph (5-10%) depending on his kiteing and distancing skill, while having full 15% (intentional bigger than FDB, for range offset and bow restriction) with big enough distance advantage - like real sniper.
  • Sublime
    Sublime
    ✭✭✭✭
    vontariel wrote: »
    While i agree with your reasoning, i`d like to remind you, that for most part in PvP all but large battles are rather held in close-medium range (PvP is full of gap-closers and mobility skills), and it's bonus will stay at 0-5% for most time with proposed by you numbers, making using this morph less desirable in terms of power output especially compared to other one (great defense debuff) and flat 13% increase of dawnbreaker. It takes only player/monster on your face to disable your morph bonus - keep that in mind.
    I thought, that in toe-to-toe fight, archer will still have portion of power bonus of morph (5-10%) depending on his kiteing and distancing skill, while having full 15% (intentional bigger than FDB, for range offset and bow restriction) with big enough distance advantage - like real sniper.

    For me that was exactly the Point of Disrupting Shot, being less about kiting and building distance and more about the brawly style of combat. Charged Shots on the other side more being the lone ranger type for gankers and siegers.

    Additionally FDB does not give a flat damage increase but a boost to Weapon Power so 10% additional damage is probably already stronger than FDB, maybe already 5%.
    EU | For those who want to improve their behaviour: the science behind shaping player bahaviour (presentation)
  • vontariel
    vontariel
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    Ok, if that's how it is you're 100% right.
  • Sublime
    Sublime
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    vontariel wrote: »
    Ok, if that's how it is you're 100% right.

    Well, that's just what I thought you wrote with your original post, or did i understand something wrong?
    Edited by Sublime on 12 February 2015 23:10
    EU | For those who want to improve their behaviour: the science behind shaping player bahaviour (presentation)
  • vontariel
    vontariel
    ✭✭✭
    Nah, i just wanted to sum up discussion.
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