What happened to my stats?

Lefty_Lucy · February 2015

So on the PTS I created the exact same build that I had on my main character on live.

First thing I noticed was that I was missing an immense amount of HP / MP / Stamina (after accounting for the x10 scaling). Why?

The next thing I noticed was that putting points into the champion system raised my HP / MP / Stamina. Why?

What is this? I have to invest well over 1000 champion points to get back to my HP / MP / Stamina that I had on live?

I'm completely fine with having additional stats based on the champion system, but why do I have to start off significantly behind where I was at live? Is this intentional or a bug?

- Lefty

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

EDIT -- See my post below... This post includes an incorrect assumption...

RoyJade · February 2015

Stamina and magicka have more or less a x7 scaling, and life also have a 1.1 scaling on resources (1.5 on live actually). Some of other stats aren't multiplied by 10.
Spend champion points raise your attributes, we know that from a long time. Warrior increase life, mage increase magicka and thief increase stamina. The maximum CP seem to give you +50% life/stamina/magicka.

Lefty_Lucy · February 2015

I completely understand that spending champion points increases our stats.

But why do we start out significantly lower? With 0 champion points invested (which is what we all have right now, on live), we have significantly less HP/MP/Stamina.

Like I said, it's fine with me that spending champion points increases our resources, but we're starting out lower than we were before. That is the part that bothers me, and that is the part that has not been clearly communicated by ZOS.

I strongly disagree with having to invest well over 1000 champion points just to get back to the HP / MP / Stamina that I had in pre-1.6.

Teargrants · February 2015

After investing the 3600 champion points, in a balanced build I get 28k health/27k magicka/18k stam.

Finally comparable to my 3k health/2.4k magicka/1.8k stam on live with the same attribute distribution/enchants. So yes, you do need to spec fully into the champion system to get back (number wise) to your live numbers.

That said, ability costs are cheaper and regen rates higher with maxed cp.

Lefty_Lucy · February 2015

That's all well and good, but the point is we will need to spend an astronomical amount of time just to get back to where we were. That's what bothers me.

Why set us back and then allow us to work forward, instead of just allowing us to work forward from where we currently stand?

Mantic0r3 · February 2015

Lefty_Lucy wrote: »

That's all well and good, but the point is we will need to spend an astronomical amount of time just to get back to where we were. That's what bothers me.

Why set us back and then allow us to work forward, instead of just allowing us to work forward from where we currently stand?

The sad answer is Zenimax is not able to produce content any time soon, therefore you would get stronger and stronger but without new content you would just burn through everything (6man trial anyone?)

Make no mistake, I do hate this too.

Lefty_Lucy · February 2015

**tl;dr below**

So after @RoyJade‌ mentioned that the scaled values are not necessarily x10 (bad assumption on my part I guess - I thought I read this from ZOS somewhere though... Oops.) - I did some further analysis.

Here is my data: http://puu.sh/fLgDd/f53683724b.png

Here is what I did:
Test case 1 - Comparison of a level 3 character on PTS (column C) with a level 3 character on live (column B ). The ratio of the PTS stats vs Live stats are in column E. Notice the scaling is not x10, but rather x7.4 for HP, and x9.2 for MP and Stamina.

Test case 2 - Comparison of my main character on PTS with 0 champion points invested (column I) with my main character on Live (also 0 champion points invested, obviously) (column H). Notice not only is the scaling not x10, but the scaling differs from Test case 1. I was standing in Cyrodiil in Test case 2 and I was not standing in Cyrodiil in Test case 1; that could be the reason for the mismatch between 1 and 2.

Test case 3 - Just for fun, a comparison of my main character on PTS with 0 champion points invested (column N) with my main character on PTS with 3600 champion points invested (column O). Champion points make a huge difference. Huge.

Conclusions - Test case 2 shown in the link above shows that the HP / MP / Stamina scaling from Live to PTS (v1.6.2) is not a x10 scaling. Rather, it's x8.4 for HP, x7.5 for MP, and x7.2 for Stamina. Furthermore, the cost of abilities were scaled by approximately x8.5.

Therefore, there exists a difference in the scaling for our base stats vs the scaling for our ability costs. This difference is detrimental to sustaining resources. In other words, speaking relatively, we have less Stamina/MP to use our skills which cost more Stamina/MP. Again, this is relative (look at the ratios, not the raw values).

Side note - I'd be interested to see if the ratios I found are different for someone else's character...

tl;dr - Looks like the scaling is non-uniform between stats and ability costs. Also, the scaling is not x10. So what I was originally upset about is irrelevant because I was assuming a x10 scaling.

What is a little upsetting, though, is the non-uniformity between stat values and ability costs. This non-uniformity means that Stamina/MP management will be harder in 1.6.2 than it is in live.

That's not the end of the world though. Maybe we needed that, actually.

Sacadon · February 2015

Lefty_Lucy wrote: »

That's all well and good, but the point is we will need to spend an astronomical amount of time just to get back to where we were. That's what bothers me.

Why set us back and then allow us to work forward, instead of just allowing us to work forward from where we currently stand?

Because we're lucky to be part of helping ZOS get this out of beta /sarcasm

I think it's so that those starting from the beginning don't have a longer distance to travel to max out their characters using the same amount of content we maxed ours on. Especially considering how long it takes to earn all CPs appears to be much longer than it took to earn 14 veteran ranks.

Personally I don't like it, but understand that it may be best for the game long term. Maybe this is why Firor/Sage were so long winded about those who've been with ESO from the start. I'm still waiting on my Titan mount BTW. )

RoyJade · February 2015

One of the topic of the forum have the full scaling values of any stats. I'll try to find it again.
But actually, with full magicka or stamina and the appropriate armor, I'm able without any CP or appropriate set to spam my heal and damage abilities without any problem. Healing is become easier, dps is good with DK/templar/NB, but sorc dps and all tanking is far difficult than before.

And yes, on some point our characters are being nerfed in the name of champion system. Artificial content, not less...

Syntse · February 2015

Seems to be common error on the forums to think that all scaled to x10 and notice that counting sp/hp/mp that they didn't. This all without even little bit trying out the game play with changed stats.

Also find it extremely funny when people say that 'why my stats are lower' when in live they had 2800 and in PTS 18000. 2800>18000? Or in live dps was 1400 now barely over 9000.

Berinima · February 2015

Syntse wrote: »

...now barely over 9000.

Ah, that's cool, because... it__s_over_9000_.png?w=580

McDoogs · February 2015

Listen, if you can average 1 CP an hour it will only take 360 days of playing 10 hours a day to

Teargrants wrote: »

After investing the 3600 champion points, in a balanced build I get 28k health/27k magicka/18k stam.

Finally comparable to my 3k health/2.4k magicka/1.8k stam on live with the same attribute distribution/enchants. So yes, you do need to spec fully into the champion system to get back (number wise) to your live numbers.

That said, ability costs are cheaper and regen rates higher with maxed cp.

Oh good, at an average of 1 CP/hour we only need to play 10 hours a day for 360 days...