Veteran rank crafting mats post 1.6

DirtySmeegs33 · January 2015

Hi all,

I have heard a lot of news regarding 1.6 but none that hit upon how it will effect those crafting mats that allow us to build Veteran Rank items. Since Vet items will be no more, how will this change what skills we can choose, what materials are available or what those materials offer?

I mainly ask because as I level my crafts on my main crafter, I wonder if I should stop at mat levels 5 (which is like 44-50 level items)... because there may be a chance that level 6-9 skills will be removed from the crafting lines. I doubt they will but it popped into my head.

I am thinking, instead, that the skills will remain available and we will still have 6-9 level potency mats to gather, but instead of granting us the ability to make vet level items, they will instead grant some other bonus for max level 50 items.

As a craftaholic this topic has me nervous/excited! I feel this topic applies to any and all crafts since they all have this branch on their crafting lines. Thoughts?

Ahdora · January 2015

Vet ranks are not being removed in 1.6

AlexDougherty · January 2015

Um, Vet levels will still be there for a while yet.

They are planning on getting the new Champion system up and running before they get rid of Vet levels. This will probably take a few months.

After they remove Vet Levels, well nobody outside of ZOS knows, please feel free to guess alongside the rest of us.

My personal guess is they will have some CP requirement (100 CPs for galatite for example (remember the high number of CPs available 3400)).

DeLindsay · January 2015

Once VR are removed (months from 1.6 likely) they will probably just squeeze the materials downward. Each tier of materials might only be a few levels instead of several like it is now. This wouldn't be that hard for ZoS to do (they've already done it once the other direction) and it's likely that Void will be the only true LvL 50 material.

DirtySmeegs33 · January 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

Once VR are removed (months from 1.6 likely) they will probably just squeeze the materials downward. Each tier of materials might only be a few levels instead of several like it is now. This wouldn't be that hard for ZoS to do (they've already done it once the other direction) and it's likely that Void will be the only true LvL 50 material.

I totally agree with this! I am still hoping for something a bit more creative but this seems most likely. If this does happen I wonder how they will then instance mats to different Zones... Because now there will be 9 different mat types to squeeze into the main story correct? Because we will be past max level before we finish in our original Zones. Yes?

DeLindsay · January 2015

DirtySmeegs33 wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Once VR are removed (months from 1.6 likely) they will probably just squeeze the materials downward. Each tier of materials might only be a few levels instead of several like it is now. This wouldn't be that hard for ZoS to do (they've already done it once the other direction) and it's likely that Void will be the only true LvL 50 material.

I totally agree with this! I am still hoping for something a bit more creative but this seems most likely. If this does happen I wonder how they will then instance mats to different Zones... Because now there will be 9 different mat types to squeeze into the main story correct? Because we will be past max level before we finish in our original Zones. Yes?

Yeah not sure how they would do the node spawns in Zones after a squeeze down of materials. The easiest way would be to change all current Veteran Zone's nodes to Void, but that seems fairly bland tbh.

AlexDougherty · January 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

Once VR are removed (months from 1.6 likely) they will probably just squeeze the materials downward. Each tier of materials might only be a few levels instead of several like it is now. This wouldn't be that hard for ZoS to do (they've already done it once the other direction) and it's likely that Void will be the only true LvL 50 material.

Could be, just as likely as my scenario, possibly more likely.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · January 2015

Ahdora wrote: »

Vet ranks are not being removed in 1.6

That's irrelevant to his point, why bother posting it?

Whatever version VR finally goes it will still GO and so the changes coming in 1.6 WILL APPLY THEN .. and that's what he's trying to discuss.

Iago · January 2015

DirtySmeegs33 wrote: »

Hi all,

I have heard a lot of news regarding 1.6 but none that hit upon how it will effect those crafting mats that allow us to build Veteran Rank items. Since Vet items will be no more, how will this change what skills we can choose, what materials are available or what those materials offer?

I mainly ask because as I level my crafts on my main crafter, I wonder if I should stop at mat levels 5 (which is like 44-50 level items)... because there may be a chance that level 6-9 skills will be removed from the crafting lines. I doubt they will but it popped into my head.

I am thinking, instead, that the skills will remain available and we will still have 6-9 level potency mats to gather, but instead of granting us the ability to make vet level items, they will instead grant some other bonus for max level 50 items.

As a craftaholic this topic has me nervous/excited! I feel this topic applies to any and all crafts since they all have this branch on their crafting lines. Thoughts?

Vet Ranks are here for a good long while the following quote from the 1.6 patch notes shows this as the Champ System appears to be heavily reliant on Vet Ranks.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

BIG CHANGES / UPDATES / NEW FEATURES

Champion System
The Champion System is a new progression and development system that is designed to allow even more choice in how you build your high-level characters.

The Champion System is available once you have one Veteran Rank 1 character on your account,and provides significant enhancements to character development while you are progressing through Veteran Ranks.

Champion Points are account wide. When one Veteran Rank character on an account earns a Champion Point, every character on the account will receive a point to use, regardless of level.
Only Veteran Rank characters can earn points to be spent in the Champion System, but all characters on your account can spend those points individually.

The account-wide pool of points is not shared across characters. Each character on the account has their own unique pool that can be spent in a way that’s tailored to that specific character.

Champion Points are earned by gaining experience; any Veteran Rank character can earn Champion Points by doing anything in the game that generates experience.
This includes questing, exploring dungeons, conquering Cyrodiil, braving the challenges of Trials and Dragonstar Arena, clearing delves in search of loot, or just randomly killing monsters for fun and profit.

A new mechanic, Enlightenment, has also been introduced to the game.
Enlightenment slowly accumulates on your account at a fixed rate, regardless of the character you are playing, as long as your account has at least one Veteran Rank character.

Anything that normally awards experience will also give you bonus experience as long as you have not used up your Enlightenment.
This only applies towards Champion Point progression.

This bonus experience does not apply towards increasing your level, Veteran Rank, or improving any weapon skills.

As experience is earned and bonus Champion experience is applied, your Enlightenment will get used up. Once there is no more Enlightenment left, experience earned will count towards Champion point progression at the normal rate.

Champion Points can be spent in nine different constellations that are arranged into three groups: the Warrior, the Mage, and the Thief.
Each point that is unlocked will be for one of those three groups.

A point that is earned in the Warrior can only be spent in one of the three constellations that serve the Warrior. The same goes for the Mage and the Thief.

Every point that you can spend in a constellation will rotate with each earned point.
For example, if the last point earned was in the Thief, then the next point will be in the Mage, and the next in the Warrior, then the circle will begin again.

While there are many abilities in each of the three constellation groups, the groups each have a general theme.
Points spent in the Warrior will improve your health and overall defensive capabilities.

Points spent in the Thief will improve your stamina and provide an array of useful utility bonuses.

Points spent in the Mage will enhance Magicka and provide bonuses to offense and damage dealing.

A maximum of 100 points can be spent per star in each constellation.
The first point in each star will grant the largest bonus, and each subsequent point in that star will offer a slightly smaller bonus.

More powerful passive bonuses unlock once 10 points, 30 points, 75 points, and 120 points have been spent in a constellation. In all, there are 36 of these unlockable bonuses that you can earn over time. These bonus include some of the most powerful enhancements available via the Champion System, including:
Determination: Gain a damage shield when using a potion.

War Mount: Mounts do not lose stamina when you are not in combat.

Arcane Well: Killing an enemy causes them to explode and grant magicka to nearby allies.

Last Stand: Earn more Ultimate when below 20% health.

Any Veteran Rank character that logs in after the system goes live will get 5 Champion Points added to the account for each full Veteran Rank that character has achieved.
Partial credit will be given for XP earned within a Veteran Rank. This is based on a fraction of the total XP contained within the level. One Veteran Rank is currently 1,000,000XP, so the conversion system will grant you one Champion Point for every 200,000XP within a Veteran Rank.
For example, if you are Veteran Rank 12 and have 800,000XP progress towards Veteran Rank 13, you will receive 59 Champion Points after the system goes live.

EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: Only the conversion system will use 200,000XP for one Champion Point the day the system goes live in Update 6. This is not what it will take to earn a Champion Point while playing normally once the Champion System is live.

It is possible that a Veteran Rank 1 character may not have earned 200,000XP into Veteran Rank 1. In this case, you will not receive a Champion Point after the system goes live.

Champion Points are shared across all characters as the system is account wide, but for the conversion of XP to Champion Points, no more than 70 Champion Points will be given to an account.

A VR14 character can receive up to 70 Champion Points depending on how much XP into VR14 they are, but 70 is the maximum the conversion system will give out for the account.

If you have multiple Veteran Rank characters, you will receive credit for each Veteran Rank upon logging into each character (provided the account has not reached 70 Champion Points given out in the conversion).

Only currently existing characters created before Update 6 goes live are eligible to claim points from the conversion pool. Once they are claimed, they will move into an account-wide Champion pool that all characters can use. You must have at least one Veteran Rank character in order to receive Champion Points from this conversion pool to your account.

The 70 Champion Points from the conversion pool will never get more points added to it - only subtracted. If there’s a situation where you don’t use up all 70 points once the system is live, they will never be used since this only applies to characters you have preceding Update 6.

DirtySmeegs33 · January 2015

Iago wrote: »

DirtySmeegs33 wrote: »

Hi all,

I have heard a lot of news regarding 1.6 but none that hit upon how it will effect those crafting mats that allow us to build Veteran Rank items. Since Vet items will be no more, how will this change what skills we can choose, what materials are available or what those materials offer?

I mainly ask because as I level my crafts on my main crafter, I wonder if I should stop at mat levels 5 (which is like 44-50 level items)... because there may be a chance that level 6-9 skills will be removed from the crafting lines. I doubt they will but it popped into my head.

I am thinking, instead, that the skills will remain available and we will still have 6-9 level potency mats to gather, but instead of granting us the ability to make vet level items, they will instead grant some other bonus for max level 50 items.

As a craftaholic this topic has me nervous/excited! I feel this topic applies to any and all crafts since they all have this branch on their crafting lines. Thoughts?

Vet Ranks are here for a good long while the following quote from the 1.6 patch notes shows this as the Champ System appears to be heavily reliant on Vet Ranks.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

BIG CHANGES / UPDATES / NEW FEATURES

Champion System
The Champion System is a new progression and development system that is designed to allow even more choice in how you build your high-level characters.

The Champion System is available once you have one Veteran Rank 1 character on your account,and provides significant enhancements to character development while you are progressing through Veteran Ranks.

Champion Points are account wide. When one Veteran Rank character on an account earns a Champion Point, every character on the account will receive a point to use, regardless of level.
Only Veteran Rank characters can earn points to be spent in the Champion System, but all characters on your account can spend those points individually.

The account-wide pool of points is not shared across characters. Each character on the account has their own unique pool that can be spent in a way that’s tailored to that specific character.

Champion Points are earned by gaining experience; any Veteran Rank character can earn Champion Points by doing anything in the game that generates experience.
This includes questing, exploring dungeons, conquering Cyrodiil, braving the challenges of Trials and Dragonstar Arena, clearing delves in search of loot, or just randomly killing monsters for fun and profit.

A new mechanic, Enlightenment, has also been introduced to the game.
Enlightenment slowly accumulates on your account at a fixed rate, regardless of the character you are playing, as long as your account has at least one Veteran Rank character.

Anything that normally awards experience will also give you bonus experience as long as you have not used up your Enlightenment.
This only applies towards Champion Point progression.

This bonus experience does not apply towards increasing your level, Veteran Rank, or improving any weapon skills.

As experience is earned and bonus Champion experience is applied, your Enlightenment will get used up. Once there is no more Enlightenment left, experience earned will count towards Champion point progression at the normal rate.

Champion Points can be spent in nine different constellations that are arranged into three groups: the Warrior, the Mage, and the Thief.
Each point that is unlocked will be for one of those three groups.

A point that is earned in the Warrior can only be spent in one of the three constellations that serve the Warrior. The same goes for the Mage and the Thief.

Every point that you can spend in a constellation will rotate with each earned point.
For example, if the last point earned was in the Thief, then the next point will be in the Mage, and the next in the Warrior, then the circle will begin again.

While there are many abilities in each of the three constellation groups, the groups each have a general theme.
Points spent in the Warrior will improve your health and overall defensive capabilities.

Points spent in the Thief will improve your stamina and provide an array of useful utility bonuses.

Points spent in the Mage will enhance Magicka and provide bonuses to offense and damage dealing.

A maximum of 100 points can be spent per star in each constellation.
The first point in each star will grant the largest bonus, and each subsequent point in that star will offer a slightly smaller bonus.

More powerful passive bonuses unlock once 10 points, 30 points, 75 points, and 120 points have been spent in a constellation. In all, there are 36 of these unlockable bonuses that you can earn over time. These bonus include some of the most powerful enhancements available via the Champion System, including:
Determination: Gain a damage shield when using a potion.

War Mount: Mounts do not lose stamina when you are not in combat.

Arcane Well: Killing an enemy causes them to explode and grant magicka to nearby allies.

Last Stand: Earn more Ultimate when below 20% health.

Any Veteran Rank character that logs in after the system goes live will get 5 Champion Points added to the account for each full Veteran Rank that character has achieved.
Partial credit will be given for XP earned within a Veteran Rank. This is based on a fraction of the total XP contained within the level. One Veteran Rank is currently 1,000,000XP, so the conversion system will grant you one Champion Point for every 200,000XP within a Veteran Rank.
For example, if you are Veteran Rank 12 and have 800,000XP progress towards Veteran Rank 13, you will receive 59 Champion Points after the system goes live.

EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: Only the conversion system will use 200,000XP for one Champion Point the day the system goes live in Update 6. This is not what it will take to earn a Champion Point while playing normally once the Champion System is live.

It is possible that a Veteran Rank 1 character may not have earned 200,000XP into Veteran Rank 1. In this case, you will not receive a Champion Point after the system goes live.

Champion Points are shared across all characters as the system is account wide, but for the conversion of XP to Champion Points, no more than 70 Champion Points will be given to an account.

A VR14 character can receive up to 70 Champion Points depending on how much XP into VR14 they are, but 70 is the maximum the conversion system will give out for the account.

If you have multiple Veteran Rank characters, you will receive credit for each Veteran Rank upon logging into each character (provided the account has not reached 70 Champion Points given out in the conversion).

Only currently existing characters created before Update 6 goes live are eligible to claim points from the conversion pool. Once they are claimed, they will move into an account-wide Champion pool that all characters can use. You must have at least one Veteran Rank character in order to receive Champion Points from this conversion pool to your account.

The 70 Champion Points from the conversion pool will never get more points added to it - only subtracted. If there’s a situation where you don’t use up all 70 points once the system is live, they will never be used since this only applies to characters you have preceding Update 6.

I agree with you that they are interwoven as of now. But I believe this is because they are preparing for conversion. So the more they explain how the two systems relate the more accepting the community will be of their explanations on conversion rates and stat changes. By tracking it all now they are making it a smoother transition in the long run.

I just hope they are doing this same forward thinking with placement of crafting nodes and those skills we aquire to work with them.

It concerns me because as of now cadwell's silver and gold are needed to get to zones with appropriate level mats. Is there an alternative game play that I am unaware of in order to experience content that allows crafters to find nodes of appropriate levels?

Ahdora · January 2015

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Vet ranks are not being removed in 1.6

That's irrelevant to his point, why bother posting it?

Whatever version VR finally goes it will still GO and so the changes coming in 1.6 WILL APPLY THEN .. and that's what he's trying to discuss.

It wasn't irrelevant at all. OP was under the impression, based on his post, that the vet ranks were being taken out in update 1.6. I was letting him know that was not the case. I had no insight to offer as to the rest of his question, so I didn't add anything else.

Not sure why you felt the need to call me out for giving the OP valid, relevant information.

I_killed_Vivec · January 2015

Ahdora wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Vet ranks are not being removed in 1.6

That's irrelevant to his point, why bother posting it?

Whatever version VR finally goes it will still GO and so the changes coming in 1.6 WILL APPLY THEN .. and that's what he's trying to discuss.

It wasn't irrelevant at all. OP was under the impression, based on his post, that the vet ranks were being taken out in update 1.6. I was letting him know that was not the case. I had no insight to offer as to the rest of his question, so I didn't add anything else.

Not sure why you felt the need to call me out for giving the OP valid, relevant information.

More than that, "the changes coming in 1.6 WILL APPLY THEN" is meaningless because there are no changes to materials in 1.6, apart from Provisioning... where they are bringing in VR10 recipes that further cement the future of VR!

One of the comments ZoS made about 1.6 was that it was a massive rebalancing act that they didn't want to go though again "for obvious reasons".

I think it will be a long time before they take on the bigger rebalancing act of removing VR.

Robbmrp · January 2015

When they remove the Vet levels, they should also remove the level on materials. Then assign the material to style like Skryim does it. Granted there 's only 9 types of ore and 14 Styles so some would have to be doubled up. Here's a way they could do it by assigning ore to Style.

1- Iron for Orc & Bosmer
2- Steel for Imperial & Dunmer
3- Orchalc for Argonian
4- Dwarven for Dwarven
5- Ebony for Daedric
6- Calcinium for Khajit & Primal
7- Galatite for Breton & Redguard
8- QuickSilver for Altmer and Ancient Elf
9- Voidstone Barbaric

Just one way it could be done

AlexDougherty · January 2015

Robbmrp wrote: »

When they remove the Vet levels, they should also remove the level on materials. Then assign the material to style like Skryim does it. Granted there 's only 9 types of ore and 14 Styles so some would have to be doubled up. Here's a way they could do it by assigning ore to Style.

1- Iron for Orc & Bosmer
2- Steel for Imperial & Dunmer
3- Orchalc for Argonian
4- Dwarven for Dwarven
5- Ebony for Daedric
6- Calcinium for Khajit & Primal
7- Galatite for Breton & Redguard
8- QuickSilver for Altmer and Ancient Elf
9- Voidstone Barbaric

Just one way it could be done

Yes, but how do you get the level, because if it's just adding to the base materials then a level 50 Cuirass will take about 32 ingots for you to craft, so a suit will take about 187 ingots to craft for level 50 (not counting weapons) so it would take an awful lot of harvesting.

Basically they have three options;

They could just get rid of Calcinium, Galatite, Quicksilver and Voidstone.
They could compress the distribution so all nine materials fit withing levels 1-50.
They can just add a CP requirement, so once you have so many CPs you can equip the next tier material (they could even add to this, Aetherium Armour perhaps)

Ourorboros · January 2015

Basically they have three options;
They could just get rid of Calcinium, Galatite, Quicksilver and Voidstone.

They could compress the distribution so all nine materials fit withing levels 1-50.

They can just add a CP requirement, so once you have so many CPs you can equip the next tier material (they could even add to this, Aetherium Armour perhaps)

Just curious how you see option three working for those who already have access to higher level mats? There are non Vets at level 50 crafting. And no one starts with more than 70 CP. Not saying this is a bad idea, but generally people are not happy when something they already have gets taken away.

AlexDougherty · January 2015

Ourorboros wrote: »

Basically they have three options;
They could just get rid of Calcinium, Galatite, Quicksilver and Voidstone.

They could compress the distribution so all nine materials fit withing levels 1-50.

They can just add a CP requirement, so once you have so many CPs you can equip the next tier material (they could even add to this, Aetherium Armour perhaps)

Just curious how you see option three working for those who already have access to higher level mats? There are non Vets at level 50 crafting. And no one starts with more than 70 CP. Not saying this is a bad idea, but generally people are not happy when something they already have gets taken away.

I know what you mean, but I was just thinking it could be that you have to have earned so many CPs, the closer it gets the less I think this might happen though.

Not sure how many CPs each tier would need to unlock, and as you say it could annoy people, which I don't want. Mind you they would also lose out with the first option as well.

I don't want the materials to vanish, and I suspect that if they just compress the tiers into levels 1-50 it will be awkward and clumsy. But if you can see a better solution please let us know, I know I would be relieved.

Robbmrp · January 2015

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Yes, but how do you get the level, because if it's just adding to the base materials then a level 50 Cuirass will take about 32 ingots for you to craft, so a suit will take about 187 ingots to craft for level 50 (not counting weapons) so it would take an awful lot of harvesting.

ZOS needs to figure out sooner than later IF they are EVER going to increase the levels. To remove the Vet levels completely and change the max level at a later time will only enrage everyone that had their characters dropped down to level 50.

IF they are going to increase the levels EVER, they should not remove the Vet levels and just rename them. Right now we have V1-V14, why not rename them to 51-64. This would take the LEAST amount of programming to complete. Ore would still determine the level exactly as it does now. Plus, it wouldn't drop everyone from their current Vet level down to level 50 basically negating all the work we did to get to the highest level in the first place.

ALL MMO's add higher levels to their games eventually. Why not just switch the naming of it now. It would be the LEAST COSTLY change they could make all the while keeping their entire player base happy.

It's really a Win Win for ZOS.....

Ourorboros · January 2015

They could compress the distribution so all nine materials fit withing levels 1-50.

This makes the most sense, if they actually do get rid of vet levels. It applies to all mats. Looks like it will not affect ingredients, ZO$ said they removed level requirements, but what about recipes? There are now 3 tiers of VR foods. Anyway, compressing seems most likely since it will not remove anything.

DirtySmeegs33 · January 2015

Ourorboros wrote: »

They could compress the distribution so all nine materials fit withing levels 1-50.

This makes the most sense, if they actually do get rid of vet levels. It applies to all mats. Looks like it will not affect ingredients, ZO$ said they removed level requirements, but what about recipes? There are now 3 tiers of VR foods. Anyway, compressing seems most likely since it will not remove anything.

I agree and hope for compression as well. But then what we all do for crafting post 50... There would have to be some tie into the Champion System so that crafters could still progress. This would be similar to the master craftsman discussion of perks that would fit really well into constellation bonuses! Exciting stuff!

AlexDougherty · January 2015

Ourorboros wrote: »

They could compress the distribution so all nine materials fit withing levels 1-50.

This makes the most sense, if they actually do get rid of vet levels. It applies to all mats. Looks like it will not affect ingredients, ZO$ said they removed level requirements, but what about recipes? There are now 3 tiers of VR foods. Anyway, compressing seems most likely since it will not remove anything.

My problem with that is the crafting, at the minute it takes five skill points to craft level 50 gear, but if they compress it that means nine skill points, which means four less skill points for every craft. Which can be a lot for the first faction.

I realise this is an extreme view, but one I find curiously troubling, especially as I did keep up with both two crafts on each of my three main crafters.

AlexDougherty · January 2015

Robbmrp wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Yes, but how do you get the level, because if it's just adding to the base materials then a level 50 Cuirass will take about 32 ingots for you to craft, so a suit will take about 187 ingots to craft for level 50 (not counting weapons) so it would take an awful lot of harvesting.

ZOS needs to figure out sooner than later IF they are EVER going to increase the levels. To remove the Vet levels completely and change the max level at a later time will only enrage everyone that had their characters dropped down to level 50.

I agree, I was just pointing out the main problem with removing level requirements completely. I really do hope they have some sort of plan.

IF they are going to increase the levels EVER, they should not remove the Vet levels and just rename them. Right now we have V1-V14, why not rename them to 51-64. This would take the LEAST amount of programming to complete. Ore would still determine the level exactly as it does now. Plus, it wouldn't drop everyone from their current Vet level down to level 50 basically negating all the work we did to get to the highest level in the first place.

ALL MMO's add higher levels to their games eventually. Why not just switch the naming of it now. It would be the LEAST COSTLY change they could make all the while keeping their entire player base happy.

It's really a Win Win for ZOS.....

I agree, especially as this would mean the least fussing about, just relabelling Vet levels as regular levels, which they kind of already are now (with skill and attribute points).

I know others disagree, and I also have my doubts about them doing that, which is why I keep raising the CP requirement idea, so they can't say nobody has made any suggestions.