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What current items equate to Pay to Win?
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WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would love to see them add armor to the store that would be like the Heirloom items in WoW. Giving us extra xp while leveling alts would be something I would pay for and you can't consider them play to win items.
YUH HUIUUUUUUUUH because apparently leveling faster are pay to winnings! DUUUH
Or at least that's the general consensus between all the doomsayers and fearmongers.
You can't...um...give, you know, boosts and potions because, that's, you know, paying to win because you're winning faster
When someone can answer this question seriously and provide fact-based evidence rather than speculation and "well it could happen!" nightmare scenarios, then call me.
Until then, aaaaaaaall that's happening is people getting themselves all riled up for nothing.
Freak out when you see it happening before your eyes, not at the (I almost want to say groundless but considerering I'll stay away from that word) possibility of it happening.
You're all going to give yourselves coronaries. STAHP IT.Edited by WraithAzraiel on 22 January 2015 23:53Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
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Dave2836✭✭✭Well consider who is paying the sub after the new model is executed.
1-die hard fans of the game who have been playinh since an. maybe before early access and just love the game. These guys might even have been able to get all their toons to vr14 and max professions/inventory space making the perks worthless.
2-new players that might sub after trying the game out for a few months and would like to experience end game content to play with the above mentioned group.
3-the casual gamer who maybe tries to get in 10 hours a month and really considers the 10%perks to really help advance to endgame content while still enjoying the story.
4-gold farmers that will abuse the 10%perks to rack up gold and illicitly sell them on the wellknown seller venues.
There is nothing in the crown shop that cant be earned or even surpassed by in game engagement.
As far as im concerned i belong to group 3, and to be using the poor hipster occupy movement terminology, am part of the MMO 1%. This game is a luxury item and it is privilige, not entitlement, to take full advantage of it.1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rescorla_ESO wrote: »
If I can pay gold for dreugh wax and upgrade all my armor to legendary, what difference does it make to game balance and fairness if I can also buy the dreugh wax in the cash shop with crowns?
Setting aside whether it's "Pay 2 Win", in this example, every Dreugh Wax sold via the cash shop is one that ISN'T going to be sold in a guild store...in a game where entire guilds are dedicated to trade.
As a *trade guild leader*, I'm not thrilled to see items like Soul Gems, potions that level up as you do, and potentially other items like what you are advocating become items that can be purchased with RL cash instead of via Guild Traders.
If the biggest selling items in Guild stores become available in the cash shop, might as well just switch to a global AH because Trade Guilds will have significantly diminished value.
Just my .02 Crowns...and *my* personal thought/opinion. I don't pretend to speak for anyone else.
I agree with this.
I make a lot of gold by selling low end crafting materials to players who are trying to level crafting. These people are the very people that Hines Firor Sage feel are the casual players that need a cash shop in order to advance in the game.
I don't sell potions or soul gems, but I fear that it is only a matter of time before they offer iron ore, iron bars, and other low end crafting items for the "convenience" of the player.
ZeniBeth can, and will, do as they please to maximize income over the next several months. I am sure that a cash path to max level in all aspects of the game is on the drawing board already. (Edit... too strong? Let's say that it has been discussed how best to assist players that do not have time to build a top level character but are willing to spend the money to get one)
I intend to stick around to see what happens, but I do not have a lot of confidence in the leadership.Edited by Elsonso on 23 January 2015 02:56XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
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Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0 -
xaade✭✭✭daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »LOCK BOX KEYS.
Oh god.... please don't do that.
"Oh, I looted this item. Wait.... I have to pay real money to use it...."
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Vandril✭✭✭✭Here's some of my thoughts on Pay To Win, in a somewhat organized post.
If it gives you an active advantage in a competitive game mechanic such as combat, it's Pay To Win. Naturally, there's many different opinions on what is and is not actually considered P2W, but I feel no reasonable player would disagree with what I just stated.
To note: Pay To Win is actually terribly named. In most cases, it's used for anything that increases chances of victory, no matter how slim. I'd call it Pay For Advantage, but it would never catch on.
Generally, things like boosts to XP are not Pay To Win, because all it does is directly save you time. It doesn't give you even a mild benefit in actual combat. It just lets you reach next-stage content quicker.
However, if the Champion System's Enlightenment System progresses quicker due to an XP boost, it becomes Pay To Win. This is due to the fact that it becomes a boost to lateral character progression, just like gear. Lateral character progression is where a character is no longer progressing in levels and is instead trying to maximize their power in their current level.
This distinction between level progression and lateral character progression is important due to there generally being no equalizing mechanics for the latter.
As an example of what I mean, consider the Alliance War's stat balancing system. If a low level character enters Cyrodiil, they can choose to have their stats set to values considered normal for a max level character of moderate-low gear level, which greatly closes the gap between low and high level characters, thus minimizing the impact of level progression.
Lateral character progression, however, has no balancing mechanic such as that. If a max level character is compared to another max level character, with one of them being newly level capped and the other being very geared and fully enchanted with 100 Champion Points, then the latter will be at a distinct advantage, and there is no game mechanic to help ease that gap in power.
Take from this post what you will.Edited by Vandril on 23 January 2015 08:411 -
Nijjion✭✭✭✭adding any of the SO Serpant drops would be p2w imo
What extra stats would they have over someone who got them legit way and farmed them?
If it's the same that doesn't go under p2w but pay to get stuff easier... they are not the same thing. p2w means a combat advantage as a end result, has been for so many years now. The end result of this is that everyone has the same gear, just time and effort is different.
Adding item sets/weapons that can only be gotten through crowns/cash shop... then that's P2W. (Not including aesthetic stuff ofcourse)Edited by Nijjion on 23 January 2015 10:01NijjijjioN - DK - AR27NijjioN - NB -Daggerfall CovenantThe Nice Guys GuildEverQuest -> Dark Age of Camelot -> Ragnarok Online -> Cabal Online -> Guild Wars 1 -> Warhammer Online -> Vindictus -> SWTOR -> Tera -> Guild Wars 2 -> Elder Scrolls Online ->
Eagerly awaiting Camelot Unchained.0 -
I hear u can buy AoE Taunt, 1hr of no-endless load screen tokens, v14 Warlock Rings on the store, and can pay crowns to cap Keeps.1 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭adding any of the SO Serpant drops would be p2w imo
What extra stats would they have over someone who got them legit way and farmed them?
If it's the same that doesn't go under p2w but pay to get stuff easier... they are not the same thing. p2w means a combat advantage as a end result, has been for so many years now. The end result of this is that everyone has the same gear, just time and effort is different.
Adding item sets/weapons that can only be gotten through crowns/cash shop... then that's P2W. (Not including aesthetic stuff ofcourse)
Those sets are much stronger than the ones you can get anywhere else in the game....except maybe the COA meteor set. It would just create a huge imbalance. I get what your saying though about the p2w distinctionEdited by Joejudas on 23 January 2015 10:070 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭Over might as well make the title of Emperor purchasable too. Why work for it?That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain0 -
Wizzo91✭✭✭✭✭Rescorla_ESO wrote: »From what they have announced nothing is pay2win IMHO. The XP boost is very borderline.
If cashshop potions stay worse than max crafted ones that's fine.
Items that would make me leave in a heart beat:- If they add damage boosters, or armour boosters etc.
- If they start adding lootboxes with RNG item chances.
- If they add any gear with stats
- If they add crafting material
- if they add better mounts that you purchase with gold
- if they add any pvp buffs
- ...
Also my biggest fear is that they will add these kind of items if they start noticing that box sales/subscriptions/cashshop are not generating enough revenue anymore. The will focus more and more on the cashshop and will start to slowly start adding pay2win items.
I give it 6-12 Months.
I agree with most of your bullet points except for crafting materials. AFAIK every crafting material currently in the game can already be purchased for gold via guild traders. If I can pay gold for dreugh wax and upgrade all my armor to legendary, what difference does it make to game balance and fairness if I can also buy the dreugh wax in the cash shop with crowns?
The simple guideline for me on whether any current or future item is Pay To Win is whether it gives a competitive advantage in Cyrodil PVP or not. If the answer is Yes, then it shouldn't be in the cash shop. If the answer is No, why should anyone care about what other players are buying to improve their PVE gameplay experience since it has zero impact on your personal PVE gameplay?
High quality temperas can be quite expensive for new players. I'll give you an example why this is p2w:
Player one hits level cap and wants to start running trials / pvp. His armour is not very good though and needs to be upgraded. His amount of gold is not sufficient to upgrade the armor to be competetive. He is willing to spend money in the cashshop for required mats
-> is now competetive, will be invited to trials and good pvp groups
Player two hits level cap and wants to start running trials / pvp. His amount of gold is not sufficient to upgrade the armor the be competetive. He is intelligent enough not to use the cashshop and prefers to farm. Due to his armor only being blue, he has a hard time finding a trial grp. Also in PVP people with equal skill will beat him because they have higher quality gear.
-> is worse of than player one if equal skill, player one will always have an advantage.
This obviously P2W.[EU]
Wizzo - Stamina DK - 50 - DC
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Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭Rescorla_ESO wrote: »From what they have announced nothing is pay2win IMHO. The XP boost is very borderline.
If cashshop potions stay worse than max crafted ones that's fine.
Items that would make me leave in a heart beat:- If they add damage boosters, or armour boosters etc.
- If they start adding lootboxes with RNG item chances.
- If they add any gear with stats
- If they add crafting material
- if they add better mounts that you purchase with gold
- if they add any pvp buffs
- ...
Also my biggest fear is that they will add these kind of items if they start noticing that box sales/subscriptions/cashshop are not generating enough revenue anymore. The will focus more and more on the cashshop and will start to slowly start adding pay2win items.
I give it 6-12 Months.
I agree with most of your bullet points except for crafting materials. AFAIK every crafting material currently in the game can already be purchased for gold via guild traders. If I can pay gold for dreugh wax and upgrade all my armor to legendary, what difference does it make to game balance and fairness if I can also buy the dreugh wax in the cash shop with crowns?
The simple guideline for me on whether any current or future item is Pay To Win is whether it gives a competitive advantage in Cyrodil PVP or not. If the answer is Yes, then it shouldn't be in the cash shop. If the answer is No, why should anyone care about what other players are buying to improve their PVE gameplay experience since it has zero impact on your personal PVE gameplay?
High quality temperas can be quite expensive for new players. I'll give you an example why this is p2w:
Player one hits level cap and wants to start running trials / pvp. His armour is not very good though and needs to be upgraded. His amount of gold is not sufficient to upgrade the armor to be competetive. He is willing to spend money in the cashshop for required mats
-> is now competetive, will be invited to trials and good pvp groups
Player two hits level cap and wants to start running trials / pvp. His amount of gold is not sufficient to upgrade the armor the be competetive. He is intelligent enough not to use the cashshop and prefers to farm. Due to his armor only being blue, he has a hard time finding a trial grp. Also in PVP people with equal skill will beat him because they have higher quality gear.
-> is worse of than player one if equal skill, player one will always have an advantage.
This obviously P2W.
I agree....but....if they put temps in the store....which they shouldn't....the price in game will go down making the temps easier to get.Edited by Joejudas on 23 January 2015 10:210 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why would player two pay for blue when enough guilds sell purple endgame gear for a not too high price? Not -that- hard to make a couple thousand gold between cyrodil dailies, material farming and treasure chest hunting... just takes some time and effort, right? ;-)0 -
Dave2836✭✭✭General_Kefka wrote: »I hear u can buy AoE Taunt, 1hr of no-endless load screen tokens, v14 Warlock Rings on the store, and can pay crowns to cap Keeps.
I was told the altmers crown package have a secret process to bond their adamantium style elements to your bones and increase your mutant healing factor by 10.
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Elloa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I totally disagree. It would not be good in ESO, because it would remove a lot of incentive of crafting, delves and dungeons exploration, chest hutning etc.I would love to see them add armor to the store that would be like the Heirloom items in WoW. Giving us extra xp while leveling alts would be something I would pay for and you can't consider them play to win items.
I hated when WOW bring this to the game. but WOw is WOW, and is not centred arround immersion and stories like ESO, also in WOW the "real game" starts at end game. But in ESO it's not the case.
You have already the Mana ring and you will have the 10% bonus on xp if you are suscribed, that's more than enough for players that want gain xp faster.
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BlueIllyrian✭✭✭It's not so much what they are offering now, it is the natural progression of a cash shop to go towards P2W. Items that offer significant and visible advantage sell and resell, fluff has a very limited shelf life.
Or, in other words, how many pink unicorns of different shades you might want for your mount? Potion that gives you say +10% regeneration for an hour on the other hand offers significant advantage in PVE, in PVP and enables you to ignore crafters and crafting.0 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
What does player 1 win in the trials that player 2 loses?Rescorla_ESO wrote: »From what they have announced nothing is pay2win IMHO. The XP boost is very borderline.
If cashshop potions stay worse than max crafted ones that's fine.
Items that would make me leave in a heart beat:- If they add damage boosters, or armour boosters etc.
- If they start adding lootboxes with RNG item chances.
- If they add any gear with stats
- If they add crafting material
- if they add better mounts that you purchase with gold
- if they add any pvp buffs
- ...
Also my biggest fear is that they will add these kind of items if they start noticing that box sales/subscriptions/cashshop are not generating enough revenue anymore. The will focus more and more on the cashshop and will start to slowly start adding pay2win items.
I give it 6-12 Months.
I agree with most of your bullet points except for crafting materials. AFAIK every crafting material currently in the game can already be purchased for gold via guild traders. If I can pay gold for dreugh wax and upgrade all my armor to legendary, what difference does it make to game balance and fairness if I can also buy the dreugh wax in the cash shop with crowns?
The simple guideline for me on whether any current or future item is Pay To Win is whether it gives a competitive advantage in Cyrodil PVP or not. If the answer is Yes, then it shouldn't be in the cash shop. If the answer is No, why should anyone care about what other players are buying to improve their PVE gameplay experience since it has zero impact on your personal PVE gameplay?
High quality temperas can be quite expensive for new players. I'll give you an example why this is p2w:
Player one hits level cap and wants to start running trials / pvp. His armour is not very good though and needs to be upgraded. His amount of gold is not sufficient to upgrade the armor to be competetive. He is willing to spend money in the cashshop for required mats
-> is now competetive, will be invited to trials and good pvp groups
Player two hits level cap and wants to start running trials / pvp. His amount of gold is not sufficient to upgrade the armor the be competetive. He is intelligent enough not to use the cashshop and prefers to farm. Due to his armor only being blue, he has a hard time finding a trial grp. Also in PVP people with equal skill will beat him because they have higher quality gear.
-> is worse of than player one if equal skill, player one will always have an advantage.
This obviously P2W.
I 'get' the idea of P2W in PVP, it's laughable to use that term in PVE as I see it.
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BlueIllyrian✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
What does player 1 win in the trials that player 2 loses?Rescorla_ESO wrote: »From what they have announced nothing is pay2win IMHO. The XP boost is very borderline.
If cashshop potions stay worse than max crafted ones that's fine.
Items that would make me leave in a heart beat:- If they add damage boosters, or armour boosters etc.
- If they start adding lootboxes with RNG item chances.
- If they add any gear with stats
- If they add crafting material
- if they add better mounts that you purchase with gold
- if they add any pvp buffs
- ...
Also my biggest fear is that they will add these kind of items if they start noticing that box sales/subscriptions/cashshop are not generating enough revenue anymore. The will focus more and more on the cashshop and will start to slowly start adding pay2win items.
I give it 6-12 Months.
I agree with most of your bullet points except for crafting materials. AFAIK every crafting material currently in the game can already be purchased for gold via guild traders. If I can pay gold for dreugh wax and upgrade all my armor to legendary, what difference does it make to game balance and fairness if I can also buy the dreugh wax in the cash shop with crowns?
The simple guideline for me on whether any current or future item is Pay To Win is whether it gives a competitive advantage in Cyrodil PVP or not. If the answer is Yes, then it shouldn't be in the cash shop. If the answer is No, why should anyone care about what other players are buying to improve their PVE gameplay experience since it has zero impact on your personal PVE gameplay?
High quality temperas can be quite expensive for new players. I'll give you an example why this is p2w:
Player one hits level cap and wants to start running trials / pvp. His armour is not very good though and needs to be upgraded. His amount of gold is not sufficient to upgrade the armor to be competetive. He is willing to spend money in the cashshop for required mats
-> is now competetive, will be invited to trials and good pvp groups
Player two hits level cap and wants to start running trials / pvp. His amount of gold is not sufficient to upgrade the armor the be competetive. He is intelligent enough not to use the cashshop and prefers to farm. Due to his armor only being blue, he has a hard time finding a trial grp. Also in PVP people with equal skill will beat him because they have higher quality gear.
-> is worse of than player one if equal skill, player one will always have an advantage.
This obviously P2W.
I 'get' the idea of P2W in PVP, it's laughable to use that term in PVE as I see it.
What, seriously?
OK, I'll be able to complete quests you won't, if you complete them I'll do it faster and easier. I'll survive bad pugs, you won't. I will buy my mats for crafting in seconds while you spend hours farming. I'll have a faster mount so I'll outrun you to spawns, chests, mats, etc. I'll be top choice for endgame group content due to higher stats, you will warm the bench. You will keep an eye on the ball, I'll outperform you while chatting with mates. I'll look better and will have all the toys for say RP.
Would you like me to continue?2 -
Jack-0✭✭✭✭✭Forward camps, stat boosts (like emperorship bonus, which they should deactivate when outside of Cyrodiil). I can see them doing that and then selling an equivalent bonus on the store.2 -
Dave2836✭✭✭BlueIllyrian wrote: »fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
What does player 1 win in the trials that player 2 loses?Rescorla_ESO wrote: »From what they have announced nothing is pay2win IMHO. The XP boost is very borderline.
If cashshop potions stay worse than max crafted ones that's fine.
Items that would make me leave in a heart beat:- If they add damage boosters, or armour boosters etc.
- If they start adding lootboxes with RNG item chances.
- If they add any gear with stats
- If they add crafting material
- if they add better mounts that you purchase with gold
- if they add any pvp buffs
- ...
Also my biggest fear is that they will add these kind of items if they start noticing that box sales/subscriptions/cashshop are not generating enough revenue anymore. The will focus more and more on the cashshop and will start to slowly start adding pay2win items.
I give it 6-12 Months.
I agree with most of your bullet points except for crafting materials. AFAIK every crafting material currently in the game can already be purchased for gold via guild traders. If I can pay gold for dreugh wax and upgrade all my armor to legendary, what difference does it make to game balance and fairness if I can also buy the dreugh wax in the cash shop with crowns?
The simple guideline for me on whether any current or future item is Pay To Win is whether it gives a competitive advantage in Cyrodil PVP or not. If the answer is Yes, then it shouldn't be in the cash shop. If the answer is No, why should anyone care about what other players are buying to improve their PVE gameplay experience since it has zero impact on your personal PVE gameplay?
High quality temperas can be quite expensive for new players. I'll give you an example why this is p2w:
Player one hits level cap and wants to start running trials / pvp. His armour is not very good though and needs to be upgraded. His amount of gold is not sufficient to upgrade the armor to be competetive. He is willing to spend money in the cashshop for required mats
-> is now competetive, will be invited to trials and good pvp groups
Player two hits level cap and wants to start running trials / pvp. His amount of gold is not sufficient to upgrade the armor the be competetive. He is intelligent enough not to use the cashshop and prefers to farm. Due to his armor only being blue, he has a hard time finding a trial grp. Also in PVP people with equal skill will beat him because they have higher quality gear.
-> is worse of than player one if equal skill, player one will always have an advantage.
This obviously P2W.
I 'get' the idea of P2W in PVP, it's laughable to use that term in PVE as I see it.
What, seriously?
OK, I'll be able to complete quests you won't, if you complete them I'll do it faster and easier. I'll survive bad pugs, you won't. I will buy my mats for crafting in seconds while you spend hours farming. I'll have a faster mount so I'll outrun you to spawns, chests, mats, etc. I'll be top choice for endgame group content due to higher stats, you will warm the bench. You will keep an eye on the ball, I'll outperform you while chatting with mates. I'll look better and will have all the toys for say RP.
Would you like me to continue?
Usually at this point player 1 reveals themselves to not have the player skills or tactical knowledge to understand the complex relationships of his/her gear and work in a group setting...
Player 2 would have journeyed far and wide, farmed mats at various locations and made many friend along the way whom later invites to play dungeons and trials and learns to adapt to tactical disadvantages with group play shining forth torwards victory.
Bigger guns dont mean better performance.
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Vusile✭✭✭From what they have announced nothing is pay2win IMHO. The XP boost is very borderline.
If cashshop potions stay worse than max crafted ones that's fine.
Items that would make me leave in a heart beat:- If they add damage boosters, or armour boosters etc.
- If they start adding lootboxes with RNG item chances.
- If they add any gear with stats
- If they add crafting material
- if they add better mounts that you purchase with gold
- if they add any pvp buffs
- ...
Also my biggest fear is that they will add these kind of items if they start noticing that box sales/subscriptions/cashshop are not generating enough revenue anymore. The will focus more and more on the cashshop and will start to slowly start adding pay2win items.
I give it 6-12 Months.
Unfortunately, I see the Pay to Win transition coming sometime down the line, HANDS down. Like... Mark my words on this one.
It starts with this B2P business. You get tons of new players into the game. You keep cosmetic items in the shop to keep the CURRENT player base from getting scared off and to continue current subscriptions cause why not?
We already pay and now we can buy cool costumes with crowns. Over the next year, release 3 DLC packs with a awesome new zones and cool stuff and cool game mechanics to get people to commit to the game even more.
Next... Start selling very simple cool things to add to the experience like Loot Cards, Deconstruction Cards, and Refinement cards which increase your percentage of finding rare items on enemies and getting tempers from decon and refinement.
It's okay though, these are tiny bonuses which CANT really impact the game too much! It's just a 10% increase in stuff right?!
Wrong. These things accrue and give the payer slightly more and more advantages than the non-payer.
Then comes the really epic and creative stuff! In order not to put any awesome equipment into the store lest people begin to suspect a pay to win transition, we start getting introduction of magical tempers. Apply one to your gear while improving to prevent gear from being destroyed with a failed crafting attempt.
Have these good items sell for like 1000 crowns a piece and introduce Slot machine Chest where you have a 5% of getting them for only 200 crowns a roll! 3 rolls for 500 crowns.
That's when things become scrutinized by the player... But too late now! They put in too much time to quit. And to top it off, there will be a nice incentive. "Thank you for staying with us for so long! Stay subscribed another month and you can have a personal mini troll pet!"
This is how it's going to go down. Some people are okay with this. Others are not.
The question is: would you be willing to play the game if this were to happen down the line? If the answer is no, truly consider what you want to do now because this is the inevitable future of ESO.
No hate on my part as some people love this and it's a smart thing to do, but for some, it would detract from their ESO experience.1 -
WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭However, if the Champion System's Enlightenment System progresses quicker due to an XP boost, it becomes Pay To Win. This is due to the fact that it becomes a boost to lateral character progression, just like gear. Lateral character progression is where a character is no longer progressing in levels and is instead trying to maximize their power in their current level.
Not necessarily. Because there's a hard cap on the amount of Champion Points you can have on your account. So essentially it's just getting to that end point faster. Once again, a convenience.
Champion system is like another level system on top of the level system to replace and render obsolete the Veteran Rank system.
It's a system within a system, that without the first system wouldn't be a system.
Capisce?
Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
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Iago✭✭✭✭✭And when people get that cap Who's to say a brand new constellation won't show up Along with the new cap Its just like raising v10 To V14That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain1 -
phairdon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Eso plus membership. A 10% bonus to XP and gold gain, crafting research, and inspiration. Couldn't the above be considered as p2w? As it gives an advantage to players paying a subscription.Your immersion is breaking my entitlement. Buff Sorc's. Darkshroud the cremator Death by furRubeus BlackFluffy knight BladesThe Fat PantherPsijic Fungal SausageFlesheater the VileCaspian Rafferty FernsbyArchfiend Warlock PiersThe Black BishopEvil Wizard Lizard (EU)Neberra Vestige Fajeon (EU)Salanis Deathstick (EU)Blood Mage Alchemist (EU)0 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭Eso plus membership. A 10% bonus to XP and gold gain, crafting research, and inspiration. Couldn't the above be considered as p2w? As it gives an advantage to players paying a subscription.
Exactly it is p2wThat which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain1 -
Sylvyr✭✭✭✭✭Eso plus membership. A 10% bonus to XP and gold gain, crafting research, and inspiration. Couldn't the above be considered as p2w? As it gives an advantage to players paying a subscription.
Yes, while not in a cash shop ("micro"transaction (love how they minimize that with wordage too) it is incentives to pay and imho p2w
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PvP: Patch Vs. Player
ZoSence (n.):
1) What is reasonable or comprehensive using ZoS logic. "That makes ZoSense"
2) Making zero sense. "That makes ZoSense"1 -
Gyudan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »However, if the Champion System's Enlightenment System progresses quicker due to an XP boost, it becomes Pay To Win. This is due to the fact that it becomes a boost to lateral character progression, just like gear. Lateral character progression is where a character is no longer progressing in levels and is instead trying to maximize their power in their current level.
Not necessarily. Because there's a hard cap on the amount of Champion Points you can have on your account. So essentially it's just getting to that end point faster. Once again, a convenience.
Champion system is like another level system on top of the level system to replace and render obsolete the Veteran Rank system.
It's a system within a system, that without the first system wouldn't be a system.
Capisce?
The Champion System is not meant to be maxed. Sure, some players will get there, but it would take thousands upon thousands of hours spent ingame. Once a few players reach that point, they will probably raise the caps again (100 in each constelllation to 200, with new passives unlocked at 150 and 200 points) because the main objective is permanent character progression after level 50.
The 10% XP bonus is an advantage to the players who sub, for faster character progression. Sooner or later some potions to temporarily increase XP received by a significant amount will probably pop up as well under the banner of "time-saving items".
All hail P2W.Wololo.0 -
phairdon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Cannot say the boost bothers me. Guess because I come from gw2 environment where you can purchase individual boosts with a time limit (1 hour), or get from black lion chests. You can get crafting, speed, armor, xp, wxp for world vs world, magic find & so forth. Also guilds can provide karma, xp, magic find, gathering, gold, plus provide unique boosts to the world vs world environment.
Your immersion is breaking my entitlement. Buff Sorc's. Darkshroud the cremator Death by furRubeus BlackFluffy knight BladesThe Fat PantherPsijic Fungal SausageFlesheater the VileCaspian Rafferty FernsbyArchfiend Warlock PiersThe Black BishopEvil Wizard Lizard (EU)Neberra Vestige Fajeon (EU)Salanis Deathstick (EU)Blood Mage Alchemist (EU)0 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rescorla_ESO wrote: »From what they have announced nothing is pay2win IMHO. The XP boost is very borderline.
If cashshop potions stay worse than max crafted ones that's fine.
Items that would make me leave in a heart beat:- If they add damage boosters, or armour boosters etc.
- If they start adding lootboxes with RNG item chances.
- If they add any gear with stats
- If they add crafting material
- if they add better mounts that you purchase with gold
- if they add any pvp buffs
- ...
Also my biggest fear is that they will add these kind of items if they start noticing that box sales/subscriptions/cashshop are not generating enough revenue anymore. The will focus more and more on the cashshop and will start to slowly start adding pay2win items.
I give it 6-12 Months.
I agree with most of your bullet points except for crafting materials. AFAIK every crafting material currently in the game can already be purchased for gold via guild traders. If I can pay gold for dreugh wax and upgrade all my armor to legendary, what difference does it make to game balance and fairness if I can also buy the dreugh wax in the cash shop with crowns?
The simple guideline for me on whether any current or future item is Pay To Win is whether it gives a competitive advantage in Cyrodil PVP or not. If the answer is Yes, then it shouldn't be in the cash shop. If the answer is No, why should anyone care about what other players are buying to improve their PVE gameplay experience since it has zero impact on your personal PVE gameplay?
High quality temperas can be quite expensive for new players. I'll give you an example why this is p2w:
Player one hits level cap and wants to start running trials / pvp. His armour is not very good though and needs to be upgraded. His amount of gold is not sufficient to upgrade the armor to be competetive. He is willing to spend money in the cashshop for required mats
-> is now competetive, will be invited to trials and good pvp groups
Player two hits level cap and wants to start running trials / pvp. His amount of gold is not sufficient to upgrade the armor the be competetive. He is intelligent enough not to use the cashshop and prefers to farm. Due to his armor only being blue, he has a hard time finding a trial grp. Also in PVP people with equal skill will beat him because they have higher quality gear.
-> is worse of than player one if equal skill, player one will always have an advantage.
This obviously P2W.
I agree....but....if they put temps in the store....which they shouldn't....the price in game will go down making the temps easier to get.
It wouldn't, because they said you won't be able to trade cash shop items with other players.2