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1.5 Dungeon Difficulty ?
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smacx250✭✭✭✭✭
I don't quite understand why people think that since someone can or does do it, that everyone should or wants to. How many people like bicycling? How about doing some amateur races/rides? Now how about the Tour de France? See the difference?mazrimtaimxpreub18_ESO wrote: »Dungeons definitely not too hard. Here is a vid of Vet Banished Cells post 1.5 being cleared with a 3 man team of VR14s and it takes them about 26 minutes. It is simply a matter of mechanics and teamwork.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2dPQ2bJNvk0 -
I think that is why they have Normal and Veteran dungeons.
Amateur races/rides = Normal
Tour de France = Veteran
There is an option for people who want an easier run and an option for those wanting something harder. Just because everybody can't run the Tour de France does not mean they nerf the race.1 -
smacx250✭✭✭✭✭
And if that is what it is supposed to be, let's just come right out and say it - if your not a top pro, don't bother with the vet dungeons.mazrimtaimxpreub18_ESO wrote: »I think that is why they have Normal and Veteran dungeons.
Amateur races/rides = Normal
Tour de France = Veteran
There is an option for people who want an easier run and an option for those wanting something harder. Just because everybody can't run the Tour de France does not mean they nerf the race.0 -
And if that is what it is supposed to be, let's just come right out and say it - if your not a top pro, don't bother with the vet dungeons.mazrimtaimxpreub18_ESO wrote: »I think that is why they have Normal and Veteran dungeons.
Amateur races/rides = Normal
Tour de France = Veteran
There is an option for people who want an easier run and an option for those wanting something harder. Just because everybody can't run the Tour de France does not mean they nerf the race.
Lets be honest here. In this analogy vet dungeons arent the Tour De France. At best they are some local competition.
I have run all the dailies on 3 alts with my best and worst guildies and pugs, never not completing.
if you can't complete vet dungeons, skill up*
*By which I mean:
Learn the mechanics
Learn your role/class
Group with others of the appropriate skill/gear
Ask for advice
If you are still stuck and on the NA server chuck me a whisper and if I can, I will help out
No vet dungeon is to hard, rise to the challenge.Edited by jeeves3krwb17_ESO on 17 November 2014 02:47Drake Silvermane - Dunmer Templar - Flawless - Former Emperor
WTB - ping below 350.3 -
Natjur✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you having issues with vet dungeons, then down scale them. Borrow someone who is V1 to spawn it for you, then take your group in with everything at V1. It should be easy and allow you to learn the bosses so you can then go back and do it next time at the correct level. You can still get a golden key this way (with V14 loot), but the rest of the loot will be V1
So I would class it as
Amateur races/rides = Normal (can be two manned)
Professional races = Veteran scaled down to V1 (but V14 players)
Tour de France = Veteran at V14Edited by Natjur on 17 November 2014 02:491 -
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Lithium Flower✭✭✭✭The new scaled dungeons are incredibly fun. I've had such a great time with my guild doing them at the highest scaling and chasing the hardmodes. I've made new friends joining pugs. Before, you got in a pug, never even had to speak to one another to faceroll through an instance - now if we wipe, we talk, we discuss how to do better and end up getting to know each other.
I've learned more about my class and role and the mechanics of bosses. Sometimes I help lower ranked guildies out with their pledges at low levels but I refuse to do my own pledges at less than v12. It's hard, it's fun and when you get one of the heads at last (first type of Bind-on-Pickup item that I think makes sense as a non-transferable reward), it's very rewarding. One of the best things to have happened to ESO lately.
I'm not an elite player, I've never managed to complete DSA even at normal, I've never been inside Hel Ra Citadel or Sanctum Ophidia, only managed Aetherian Archive once because I lucked out into getting into an elite group but the challenge has been a incentive to think about my build, collect pieces and get my gear sorted through trial, error and advice from better players. It's rejuvenated interest in group dungeons, it used to be nearly impossible to find enough players to do them before even in a large guild and now I'm doing them several times a night.
Dragonknight Smith of the Lith | Rayna Dreloth
Templar Josephine Belmont | Catherine Belmont | Irene Belmont
Sorceror Blathanna | Eta Carina
Nightblade Adda Vorenor
Ebonheart Pact | Daggerfall Covenant | EU | Champion Points ~ 800 | Crafter of all things3 -
pppontus✭✭✭✭✭
✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »I am the only one (I know I'm not as guild members have said the same thing) that find the new buffed VR dungeons to be... impossible ? Everyone getting 1 shotted by VR4 mobs at VR8+ is not my definition of fun.
i agree, the bosses are way too hard and way too hard hitting, one shotting all of us in the group repeatedly is getting realy sick of it.
i have 3400 hp so i know for a fact its not a problem on my end cause me and the entire group fall dead repeatedly to almost all the end bosses of every single undaunted quest.
getting realy sick of it.
how is that supose to be considered "fun" ??
First of all, as stated by others here, the only reason this could possibly happen is if you were completely oblivious and did not avoid obvious attacks/AOE/etc. I've done most of these dungeons easily with 2,5k HP without that ever being a problem. Hell, I've tanked them with less HP than you have.
I'm sorry you wiped but this is the time for you and your group to evaluate your builds, gear and skills to become better players. Not to ask for nerfs.
Getting the gold keys is not a god given right, it is something that needs to be earned and I am so happy there is finally something in this game that needs to be earned by at least a tiny bit of skill.4 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭I feel they need to scale back the dps checks and add mechanics instead. The 2nd boss on vet darkshade or spindleclutch is the prime example. If the boss goes into that ground pound and your group doesn't have 2 dps that are 600+ dps without critical then you're looking at a wipe. On top of that if someone randomly dies/disconnects for some reason its also a wipe. This also means you need folks with the correct gear on something that is a daily, otherwise you need to exploit the system by inviting a vr1, setting them leader, then kicking them once inside. It works, but is that really how we should do things? It would be better if there were more to the massive aoe damage, like a stun or a rotating safe spot to encourage other ways to get the job done and to encourage all bu ills to complete the dungeon. If you're going to have it be as hard as thoseen two make it a hard mode challenge like the final boss in fungal grotto, with the husk shield1 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »I feel they need to scale back the dps checks and add mechanics instead. The 2nd boss on vet darkshade or spindleclutch is the prime example. If the boss goes into that ground pound and your group doesn't have 2 dps that are 600+ dps without critical then you're looking at a wipe. On top of that if someone randomly dies/disconnects for some reason its also a wipe. This also means you need folks with the correct gear on something that is a daily, otherwise you need to exploit the system by inviting a vr1, setting them leader, then kicking them once inside. It works, but is that really how we should do things? It would be better if there were more to the massive aoe damage, like a stun or a rotating safe spot to encourage other ways to get the job done and to encourage all bu ills to complete the dungeon. If you're going to have it be as hard as thoseen two make it a hard mode challenge like the final boss in fungal grotto, with the husk shield
Second Spindle boss is a dps race, but he is skippable(though I think you do have to kill him for the pledge). DC kwama boss? It's really not much of a dps race if you have a good healer. I can heal his pounding for like 2-3 minutes, maybe more, on my sorc, that's more than enough time to break his shield with ANY dps assuming you actually know what you're supposed to be doing.Edited by Magdalina on 20 November 2014 10:000 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭In spindlevlutch you still need to kill the 2nd boss for the pledge and if it was intended to be skipped if it was too hard, then ZOS wouldn't have added in the invisible walls to prevent you from going around (you can still go around him and maybe res with a soul gem if you don't run away in yime). Still, seems that they don't want you going around him
The DS kwama I can heal through for a good half minute to minute to damage the died down, however I'm on a vr14 DK with warlock gear, pots and seducer. If folks didn't get some of that gear I feel it would be very difficult to pass that ground pound without the standard Templar healer (which others should be able to fill a roll) or higher level raid gear to complete a lower tier 4 man dungeon.
Again, I would prefer adding more skill and coordination mechanics than some of the build and armor set ceilings they have. I don't like turning away folks for the green level armor they got from silver keys and minor crafting.1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've killed Highlord Rilis twice now for dailies, once with heavy armor setup and once as a medium armor tank. let me just say, rilis is fairly easy for a medium armor tank to hold him. heavy armor setups cannot block his nukes, and you can't reflect his attacks, you however can dodge them all day long. generally i'd taunt then switch to bow and just hit him all day with that, every time he'd try and nuke i'd just dodge, the templar was able to focus his heals mainly on one sorc who was clearing dadra till we got him to 25%, then we'd get 3 and kill him really fast. so if you're going to tank him i recommend something like that.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
eserras7b16_ESO✭✭✭✭mazrimtaimxpreub18_ESO wrote: »Dungeons definitely not too hard. Here is a vid of Vet Banished Cells post 1.5 being cleared with a 3 man team of VR14s and it takes them about 26 minutes. It is simply a matter of mechanics and teamwork.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2dPQ2bJNvk
Thank you for posting the video
it's mostly about correct position. You guys play great! It's not easy for other players I can understand but as you see it is doable. Eptackt - Argonian Templar
Belegrand - Redguard Nightblade1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »I feel they need to scale back the dps checks and add mechanics instead. The 2nd boss on vet darkshade or spindleclutch is the prime example. If the boss goes into that ground pound and your group doesn't have 2 dps that are 600+ dps without critical then you're looking at a wipe. On top of that if someone randomly dies/disconnects for some reason its also a wipe. This also means you need folks with the correct gear on something that is a daily, otherwise you need to exploit the system by inviting a vr1, setting them leader, then kicking them once inside. It works, but is that really how we should do things? It would be better if there were more to the massive aoe damage, like a stun or a rotating safe spot to encourage other ways to get the job done and to encourage all bu ills to complete the dungeon. If you're going to have it be as hard as thoseen two make it a hard mode challenge like the final boss in fungal grotto, with the husk shield
What are you talking about? ESO is *ALL* about mechanics. And once you learn these mechanics, the fights are significantly easier. The two bosses you listed are the only DPS checks in the entire system of vet dungeons. The DPS needed to beat those bosses is not prohibitively high. For the gargolye, as long as the tank and healer contribute *something,* which they should since he is the only boss and heals are really only needed after pounding, even "casuals" should be able to do it (also I think it is daedra so slot evil hunter). The hive lord is easier in that it does not have a strict timer where the room collapses. At some point in-between pounds, the DPS should ensure they have close to full mana (either through spell symmetry or heavy attack) so they can burn through its shield.
Sometimes a simple fight where you just got to kill one creature is welcome after all the other fights with adds, step on this spot, dodge this attack, only use ranged attacks, etc.Edited by Joy_Division on 21 November 2014 15:11Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I do agree that certain battles need to be tweaked, but I also think the game feels like a mmo now. I enjoy the new challenge of the battle, and I think a lot of the reactions are because of how hard they are relative to there previous difficulty. Not because of how hard they actually are.
Totally agree. Game was easy peasy before, people thought they where OP. Difficulty is totally fine, still pretty easy when you have good builds.
People claiming it's to hard should try to improve their level instead of asking ZOS to bring the level down.3 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »
What are you talking about? ESO is *ALL* about mechanics. And once you learn these mechanics, the fights are significantly easier. The two bosses you listed are the only DPS checks in the entire system of vet dungeons. The DPS needed to beat those bosses is not prohibitively high. For the gargolye, as long as the tank and healer contribute *something,* which they should since he is the only boss and heals are really only needed after pounding, even "casuals" should be able to do it (also I think it is daedra so slot evil hunter). The hive lord is easier in that it does not have a strict timer where the room collapses. At some point in-between pounds, the DPS should ensure they have close to full mana (either through spell symmetry or heavy attack) so they can burn through its shield.
Sometimes a simple fight where you just got to kill one creature is welcome after all the other fights with adds, step on this spot, dodge this attack, only use ranged attacks, etc.
I agree that most ESO bosses are about mechanics, however those two don't fit the bill, and a few are borderline but have enough to them. There are other more simple DPS checks that could be implemented with an end boss' s enrage tactics that come off more successful. DPS checks I don't disagree using in something like trials, where a large group running together should make up for any issues in a player lacking the damage. But for dungeons I look I think the question should be if an average v12 with so so gear and dps around 500 damage can squeek by then we're on track. If they need to call in on s one like me to do 800-1200 DPS and it's not even half way though then there needs to be some tweaking or make it optional to stay in the damage for the achievement.
As for the gargolye evil hunter is currently not procing when I checked last week (he would technically be a construct I believe, despite the name) and he does hit for quiet a bit with his one forward gouge, so most tanks will taunt, block, and have him face away from the group.
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If hundreds of people complain that difficulty settings are over the top & one person say's "look this guy can do it", then the settings are over the top. Of course there will be very skilled elitist gamers who can do these things blindfolded, but the average player is just that... average.
It doesn't make economic sense to please 1% of the gaming population.0 -
Mud_Puppy✭✭✭It's a good thing. It only scales to the lowest members level. If you want scaled up dungeon loot you should have a scaled challenge. It's been a full rotation of the pledges already and many have made completion.
Those of us that already know mechanics and have progressed may have an easier time sure. However it's not all pass and fail. A pick up group with bad stats can still be a good group if they act like one. It may be more of a hardship if you don't have the best gear, don't know each other and don't know the process, but you can still get it done./kill0 -
BoxFoxx✭✭✭I feel that the difficulty level should be smart and automatically lower if it senses the group dying off more than once or twice. It doesn't have to switch to lower level characters, just simply perhaps make the AI slower at reacting and attack speeds or less likely to use a power attack versus a normal attack... etc. Those kind of little smart, as you play, adjustments would still keep it challenging yet make all the difference in the world.0 -
Beesting✭✭✭✭I was having a hard time in november but now with my new pc on ultra 60 fps i roll through the dungeons so much easier,
Just did darkshade gold key 3 times back to back this evening at vr12 and it just goes faster and faster,
So having a good pc helps with slow responses due to lag.
And knowing the mechanics and using potions to max dps makes them fun.
Yesterday i did vet CoH and we killed the last boss so fast i was like wtf where are the adds even? On my second attempt it took two groups and 5 hours to kill it, now just a few mins...Beesting, Bosmer Magica DK, AD EU, crafter
Slager, Dunmer Magica DK, DC EU, pvp
Farmer, Dunmer Magica DK, AD EU, trials build
Every major patch looks like the end of the world but somehow i just cannot stop playing.0 -
Syntse✭✭✭✭✭Morrighan_Ravenborn wrote: »If hundreds of people complain that difficulty settings are over the top & one person say's "look this guy can do it", then the settings are over the top. Of course there will be very skilled elitist gamers who can do these things blindfolded, but the average player is just that... average.
It doesn't make economic sense to please 1% of the gaming population.
I'm average player in casual guild and done all gold key pledges since VR9 while others in group were VR14 and scaling was to their level. Guess somehow I fit into the 1% of elite players since none of the gold pledges seem too difficult. Some challenging, some just annoying but all of those we run under 30 minutes.
What it has come to is that there is group that knows the tactics and knows what to do and when and we communicate making the dungeon fairly easy. I also sometimes run with pug and it is indeed different with more wipes when no comms other than group chat and people are not exactly coordinating.Syntse Dominion Khajiit Dragonknight Stamina Tank [50]
Ra'Syntse Dominion Khajiit Nightblade Magica DPS [50]
Syntselle Dominion Dark Elf Dragonknight Magica DPS [50]
Syntseus Dominion Imperial Templar Healer [50]
Syntsetar Dominion High Elf Sorcerer Magica DPS [50]
Friar Tuktuk Daggerfall Brenton Templar Healer [50]
Syntseyn Ebonheart Brenton Nightblade Magica DPS [50]0 -
r.jan_emailb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I feel that the difficulty level should be smart and automatically lower if it senses the group dying off more than once or twice. It doesn't have to switch to lower level characters, just simply perhaps make the AI slower at reacting and attack speeds or less likely to use a power attack versus a normal attack... etc. Those kind of little smart, as you play, adjustments would still keep it challenging yet make all the difference in the world.
You mean adjusting content so that everyone can do it regadless of the effort they put in? No thanks.Lairgren | DC Dragonknight - August Palatine
playing for eXile
I'm done, CU somewhere else.3 -
Lord Xanhorn✭✭✭✭r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »You mean adjusting content so that everyone can do it regadless of the effort they put in? No thanks.
This. You don't get the best gear by being the worst player.I'm kind of a small deal!3 -
eserras7b16_ESO✭✭✭✭Dungeon difficulty is in a point where for average players is a challenge doing them but it's still doable for them...... and in a point where good players are bored by dungeons. If you get the difficulty lower it's going to be a dissaster.
The 1% elitist thing is 100% false aswel. Still have to know ingame a person who can't do Veteran Dungeons and finish them if I've got him on my group. And I've known several persons (79% or people I know) who think dungeons are easy. And I'm not in elitist guilds but in social ones.
Sorry to say but people unable to do Veteran Dungeon content is actually... 15% of the people playing this game.Eptackt - Argonian Templar
Belegrand - Redguard Nightblade2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY7Ls4TP-2g