Vampires are seriously unbalanced!!!!

SC0TY999 · January 2015

Something need to be done about the plague of vampires dominating PvP.

They don't seem to have any vulnerabilities when running in big organised groups!

They shouldn't be able to use purifying ritual or be cleansed of fire, if that's supposed to be there weakness.

Silver bolts rarely crit and can be blocked / reflected with scales.

Some suggestions to help balance this.

1. They cannot heal themselves and can only be healed by allies
2. They shouldn't be able to be purified of fire (make dot damage decrease over time)
3. Silver bolts should crit more often and have a % chance of not being able to be blocked.
4. There passives are removed during the daytime and only apply at night (after all, myth states they're creatures of the night!)
5. Completely remove vampirism and werewolf when entering Cyrodiil

Now I'm not saying this is the answer to all the Vamp issues, unfortunately I don't have the answers, it's just suggestions and open for discussion and debate. But something needs to be done about this! It's almost near impossible to kill these vampires over running PvP!

I've seen 2 people, a vamp and Templar take on a group of around 10-15, experienced V14 PvPers who will eventually kill them but with great difficulty!

2 People shouldn't be able to stand alone against an entire group!!!!!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Cody · January 2015

Well the nighttime weakness would not work, as the clock is global. You cannot use the "wait" function in an MMO where you play with actual people to speed up game time.

Vamps are not that bad in my opinion. the only thing they have going is batswarm, which one can counter with turn undead(morph of circle of protection)

Mist form is annoying, but if the vamp wants to run away, let them. That's just one less enemy player to deal with.

Baphomet · January 2015

Make blazing shield do fire damage and the game has a proper counter to bat swarming zerg blobs.

Soulac · January 2015

impulse, fear, fighters Guild fear, heal debuff, not stacking together like a noob.

Vamps are able to hold their ultimate up if you stack together and 'feed' him.
They are powerful and good in groups, but not op.
If you can't beat two vamps with a 10-15 men grp you should better leave cyrodiil and never come back, it's just a failure of your group.
If your group were experienced you shouldn't have any problems at all.

xMovingTarget · January 2015

Soulac wrote: »

impulse, fear, fighters Guild fear, heal debuff, not stacking together like a noob.

Vamps are able to hold their ultimate up if you stack together and 'feed' him.
They are powerful and good in groups, but not op.
If you can't beat two vamps with a 10-15 men grp you should better leave cyrodiil and never come back, it's just a failure of your group.
If your group were experienced you shouldn't have any problems at all.

Fixed with update 6

New ultimate gain system will heavily limit the amount of ultimates. Ergo, Batswarm can only get casted like once per minute. Thats enough of a nerf.
And with that i think a good chunk of players will cure it anyway. No Batswarm spam but fire weakness isnt appealing tbh.

morvegil · January 2015

Camouflaged hunter..

SC0TY999 · January 2015

Soulac wrote: »

impulse, fear, fighters Guild fear, heal debuff, not stacking together like a noob.

Vamps are able to hold their ultimate up if you stack together and 'feed' him.
They are powerful and good in groups, but not op.
If you can't beat two vamps with a 10-15 men grp you should better leave cyrodiil and never come back, it's just a failure of your group.
If your group were experienced you shouldn't have any problems at all.

Look again at OP and you shall see I clearly state "I've seen 10-15 struggle". No where did I say me or my group.

Why should anyone have to leave a game because your say so!

Thanks for your unconstructive criticism, very helpful!

SC0TY999 · January 2015

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

impulse, fear, fighters Guild fear, heal debuff, not stacking together like a noob.

Vamps are able to hold their ultimate up if you stack together and 'feed' him.
They are powerful and good in groups, but not op.
If you can't beat two vamps with a 10-15 men grp you should better leave cyrodiil and never come back, it's just a failure of your group.
If your group were experienced you shouldn't have any problems at all.

Fixed with update 6 New ultimate gain system will heavily limit the amount of ultimates. Ergo, Batswarm can only get casted like once per minute. Thats enough of a nerf.
And with that i think a good chunk of players will cure it anyway. No Batswarm spam but fire weakness isnt appealing tbh.

Praise to the end of Batspam!

DeLindsay · January 2015

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Fixed with update 6 New ultimate gain system will heavily limit the amount of ultimates. Ergo, Batswarm can only get casted like once per minute. Thats enough of a nerf.
And with that i think a good chunk of players will cure it anyway. No Batswarm spam but fire weakness isnt appealing tbh.

It'll still be much faster than once per minute as ZoS even listed a few abilities that currently generate additional Ultimate will continue to do so in 1.6. This also means it's likely that the Akaviri Dragonguard set and the Monster Helm set Blood Spawn will continue to exist as well as passives that increase Ultimate gain based on ability use. Maria did hint that there would be a balancing pass to these so it's possible the will add less additional Ultimate than they do now. My best (pure guess) at the fastest Ultimate drops of the biggest offenders (Batswarm, SoM, Negate, VoB) will be just over 30 seconds if using every tactic in the book to reduce cost and increase generation. Currently those can be dropped every ~6 sec dep on the build.

miahq · January 2015

They were better off before they "fixed" silver shards, honestly. Though I'd still rather see it so they need to maintain stage 1 to get those awesome bonuses. I realize they just copied it over from skyrim, but let's be honest. Skyrim vampires are pretty well targeted to the laziest players who just want to be vampires, but don't want to ever have to do anything to maintain those bonuses. I mean ww have to transform to get most of theirs, is it too much to ask for vampires to actually have to drink blood?

Lore wise Elder scrolls vampires are still like the dumbest vampires I've ever seen-- like worse than twilight dumb. It's a vampire who becomes weaker if he drinks blood, is perfectly fine in the sun (though they often never shut up about cursing the sun for whatever reason), and instead of just biting people they shoot out this weird red magic beam.

That may not sound weird because people have gotten used to it, but if they suddenly made ww spit out acid at people, I think most would scratch their heads.

Armitas · January 2015

Fighters guild line is getting buffed in 1.6 (sorry no details other than it includes silver bolts)

Remove werewolf from entering cyrodiil? I just don't understand that comment.

martinhpb16_ESO · January 2015

Not this old chestnut, Vamps have been nerfed into their coffins.

Sharee · January 2015

Expect some more nerfs. Vamps are getting their fire vulnerability lessened, but for a price.

"In some of our tests, when we fight bosses with fire damage, they generally one-shot people, and so I would like to look at, in general, reducing that vulnerability and then looking at other abilities so that they are not too powerful afterwards."

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt2/

SC0TY999 · January 2015

Armitas wrote: »

Fighters guild line is getting buffed in 1.6 (sorry no details other than it includes silver bolts)

Remove werewolf from entering cyrodiil? I just don't understand that comment.

I didn't know the name of the infection while writing this post but I basically meant remove the werewolf buffs / skills completely, as well as Vampires when entering Cyrodiil.

As I said just suggestions to gauge what others think. Maybe the community will think of something better, all this does is it gets people thinking.

miahq · January 2015

Sharee wrote: »

Expect some more nerfs. Vamps are getting their fire vulnerability lessened, but for a price.

"In some of our tests, when we fight bosses with fire damage, they generally one-shot people, and so I would like to look at, in general, reducing that vulnerability and then looking at other abilities so that they are not too powerful afterwards."

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt2/

Yeah, for some reason whenever they start tinkering with skills they always manage to find just the right change to *** people off. Making sure no skills are too powerful? Basically they want to nerf everything into blandness. How many other games have failed from devs not knowing when to leave crap alone or what to actually change?

Digiman · January 2015

More upset with Vampiric DK's then others. Reflective scales costs nothing and does everything.

Chrlynsch · January 2015

Digiman wrote: »

More upset with Vampiric DK's then others. Reflective scales costs nothing and does everything.

Already getting nerfed

Ultimate gain is getting nerfed.

Camo hunter can murder vampire within a blink of an eye.

Zerg buster skills are coming

1.6 is coming. Eso will be a completely different game than the one we know. Better or worse is still to be seen.

morvegil · January 2015

I've 1-2 shot Vampires with CAmo hunter...but I am a Vampire. Maybe im like Blade...a day walker...

miahq · January 2015

morvegil wrote: »

I've 1-2 shot Vampires with CAmo hunter...but I am a Vampire. Maybe im like Blade...a day walker...

We all are in this franchise.

yodased · January 2015

meatbag, oil catapult and fire balistas make vampires go poof.

5-6 people can easily wipe a zergball of vamps in this manner if they are intelligent and use weapons.

Have those behind the front line with evil hunter and silver shards, putturn undead on the siege on boom goes the shotgun no mo vampy mc vamp vamp.

Koensol · January 2015

I'll just quietly add my lol here...

Domander · January 2015

A good example of why the ZOS devs should just ignore the forums.

Digiman · January 2015

Prothwata wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

More upset with Vampiric DK's then others. Reflective scales costs nothing and does everything.

Already getting nerfed

What? When? Did they announce it or are you assuming?

As for Vampires themselves, apart from DK's they are very easy to manage. Silver Bolts is ridiculously useful as is Camouflaged hunter and Dawnbreaker wipes them out faster.

Having either of these in you skill bar should make fighting them manageable.

My only problem is DK Vampires as they have so much resistance and immunity to CC's and AoE they are difficult to manage. Not to mention Relfective Scales reflecting silver bolts.

Domander · January 2015

Vampire doesn't give a player much of an advantage, and if you use fire against them they are at a disadvantage, no matter how much fire resist they have.

The OP is just sad.

I bet it was an emperor vs a bunch of noobs (experienced V14 pvpers) that decided the best strategy was to all attack in melee range.

or it's just a troll post... I would hope... but they did link names so it just adds to the sad.

Beerbill · January 2015

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

impulse, fear, fighters Guild fear, heal debuff, not stacking together like a noob.

Vamps are able to hold their ultimate up if you stack together and 'feed' him.
They are powerful and good in groups, but not op.
If you can't beat two vamps with a 10-15 men grp you should better leave cyrodiil and never come back, it's just a failure of your group.
If your group were experienced you shouldn't have any problems at all.

Fixed with update 6 New ultimate gain system will heavily limit the amount of ultimates. Ergo, Batswarm can only get casted like once per minute. Thats enough of a nerf.
And with that i think a good chunk of players will cure it anyway. No Batswarm spam but fire weakness isnt appealing tbh.

Fire weakness and health regen is appealing enough, not all vamps abuse the bat swarm and compared to werewolves we are nerfed enough.

I lose all the jewelry bonuses stacking fire resistance to not be one shot by every single dk abilities and my health regen sucks. The drain also sucks in pvp and the invisibility use a $#!t load of magicka and is not as good as bolt escape.

Also fighters guild abilities that hit hard and stun all the time, unlike wolfies that only get hit when transformed. (I get a lot of kills using those so they are not useless)

Sometimes I really wish they removed the bat swarm for people stop asking for nerfs, right now vamps are just cosmetic if you don't use the faceroll builds.

Kyotee0071 · January 2015

morvegil wrote: »

I've 1-2 shot Vampires with CAmo hunter...but I am a Vampire. Maybe im like Blade...a day walker...

You got an awesome from me sir for the Blade reference .

Wolfsspinne · January 2015

Imho Vampires as well as Werewolves are fine. The problem is they are lacking alternatives! You can only be a Vampire or a Werewolf or Nothing-At-All.

Now since Vampires are followers of Molag Bal and Werewolves follow Hircine I think it would be best to have more exclusive "Cult Lines". Lines like "Knight of Arkay" or "Champion of Meridia" could have skills that counter Werewolves and Vampires but are useless on anything else.

WraithAzraiel · January 2015

Digiman wrote: »

Prothwata wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

More upset with Vampiric DK's then others. Reflective scales costs nothing and does everything.

Already getting nerfed

What? When? Did they announce it or are you assuming?

As for Vampires themselves, apart from DK's they are very easy to manage. Silver Bolts is ridiculously useful as is Camouflaged hunter and Dawnbreaker wipes them out faster.

Having either of these in you skill bar should make fighting them manageable.

My only problem is DK Vampires as they have so much resistance and immunity to CC's and AoE they are difficult to manage. Not to mention Relfective Scales reflecting silver bolts.

Vampire has been "reevaluated" 3 times since Launch. Whole skill line nerfed twice and Batswarm nerfed once.

NordJitsu · January 2015

Beerbill wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

impulse, fear, fighters Guild fear, heal debuff, not stacking together like a noob.

Vamps are able to hold their ultimate up if you stack together and 'feed' him.
They are powerful and good in groups, but not op.
If you can't beat two vamps with a 10-15 men grp you should better leave cyrodiil and never come back, it's just a failure of your group.
If your group were experienced you shouldn't have any problems at all.

Fixed with update 6 New ultimate gain system will heavily limit the amount of ultimates. Ergo, Batswarm can only get casted like once per minute. Thats enough of a nerf.
And with that i think a good chunk of players will cure it anyway. No Batswarm spam but fire weakness isnt appealing tbh.

the invisibility use a $#!t load of magicka and is not as good as bolt escape.

Did they change something or do you just have really low magicka regen?

I've cured my vampirism, but back in the day I could cast it infinity times because the regen I got while in mist form was more than the cost of the skill (in other words, I could start casting it with 20% magicka and after spamming it for long enough I'd eventually be back to 100% magicka.)

That made it far far superior to BE.

I know they've made changes to Vampirism since then so maybe that's no longer the case, but I've still seen Vamps who can cast it ~20 times in succession.

No comment on whether that's too powerful, just trying to get my facts here on whether the cost has changed.

Beerbill · January 2015

@NordJitsu‌ for me it cost roughly 450 magicka, in my specific case I run a stamina build and have around 1200 magicka meaning I can cast it 3 times before depleting the resource, even though i'm invisible i can still get hit by spells like talon (root and snare) and if a try to block or roll or run the effects wears off.

Probably someone with more magicka could use it more but like a said it's rather useless with you have a DK in your back spamming talons. (Like happened to me yesterday

)

Sharee · January 2015

NordJitsu wrote: »

Beerbill wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

impulse, fear, fighters Guild fear, heal debuff, not stacking together like a noob.

Vamps are able to hold their ultimate up if you stack together and 'feed' him.
They are powerful and good in groups, but not op.
If you can't beat two vamps with a 10-15 men grp you should better leave cyrodiil and never come back, it's just a failure of your group.
If your group were experienced you shouldn't have any problems at all.

Fixed with update 6 New ultimate gain system will heavily limit the amount of ultimates. Ergo, Batswarm can only get casted like once per minute. Thats enough of a nerf.
And with that i think a good chunk of players will cure it anyway. No Batswarm spam but fire weakness isnt appealing tbh.

the invisibility use a $#!t load of magicka and is not as good as bolt escape.

Did they change something or do you just have really low magicka regen?

I've cured my vampirism, but back in the day I could cast it infinity times because the regen I got while in mist form was more than the cost of the skill (in other words, I could start casting it with 20% magicka and after spamming it for long enough I'd eventually be back to 100% magicka.)

That made it far far superior to BE.

I know they've made changes to Vampirism since then so maybe that's no longer the case, but I've still seen Vamps who can cast it ~20 times in succession.

No comment on whether that's too powerful, just trying to get my facts here on whether the cost has changed.

Not cost, but you get 0 regen while in mistform (at least i think i remember that correctly, since im not a vamp)