Sorcs are too OP (sorc's thoughts)

X3ina · December 2014

As already mentioned in the title of magica build Sorcerer is too OP.

I must say it is not the word newbie who doesn't understand the mechanics of the game, I'm in a serious guilds who conquered all content except hard mode of SO.

What makes us so OP: crazy regen from critical surge + inner light + impulse and of course the skill that has made us simply unbeatable = crushing shock ...

With these three skills on the hotbar we simply have no rivals in the amount of damage caused in the top-end PvE content.

Okay, now be honest: why is there this class? His archetype is known as a staff using mage that can use powerful magic to destroy his enemies, but... but its not working now

Although I do know the answer: for Warhorn, Elemental Drain, Barrier sometimes... very rare for Negate or just for or just in an emergency as braces for trousers.

This patch will soon be over, so what awaits us in the next, nerf of our main increase damage/self heal ability hahaha. To be fare lets see what will it give to other classes ... MEGA DD dragonknights/Average DD nightblades/ and even the templars (who can already be a good tank or healer) will be more useful for group as a DD.

I'm not saying that ALL sorcs must use a staff, people should play as they want but now we are the only class that kinda useless in medicore/hardcore endgame PvE. As a sorc my opinion is: Zeni just wants us to be utility for the group. Think i'll stop linking my dps from the next patch, just will lie to raid leader (it dropped etc.).

Please fix something Zeni ! I just want a fare game where all classes are even and you really can play any role with any class in your group...

Jitterbug · December 2014

They are nerfing Surge? How so?
(this stamina sorc is already crying on the inside)

X3ina · December 2014

Seems like all magica skills will affect to sp/sc and stamina wp/wc so can't tell anything about stam builds

Milf_Hero · December 2014

where did you hear about changes to the sorc class? Ive only heard thing about dks and the supposed readjustment to all skills for the champion system... Which we have heard ziltch about. Im kinda sick of nerfs. Is there another tool in a devs tool box that he/she can use?

Woolenthreads · December 2014

I guess you're talking PvP because my Templar is stronger than my Sorcerer in PvE having gone through the content with far less frustration.

Yusuf · December 2014

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Gyudan · December 2014

X3ina wrote: »

What makes us so OP: crazy regen from critical surge + inner light + impulse and of course the skill that has made us simply unbeatable = crushing shock ...

With these three skills on the hotbar we simply have no rivals in the amount of damage caused in the top-end PvE content.

@X3ina: Please, enlighten us and share the awesome DPS that you are getting with your sorcerer. A video would be great!

From what I've seen in the real world of "top-end PvE content", sorcerers get out-DPSed by DKs and nightblades easily, for both single target and AoE. I have yet to see a sorcerer pull 10k+ AoE like the DKs in Sanctum.

NordJitsu · December 2014

This is hilarious. I'm currently working on a thread about how Sorcs are the weakest class and how to fix them.

Sorcs are 3rd best DPS, 3rd best heals, and worst tanks.

How are they OP?

florian.billeb16_ESO · December 2014

the only question is... when we could expect some change in the spell and for the gameplay of sorcerer,

because gameplay is really boring
DPS (one target), is really weak when you compare with DK and NB (maybe 20-50 % less DPS
DPS AOE is really weak when you compare to DK and NB (maybe 100 % less)

So when we could expect some change to have a bether DPS (1 target and AOE).

Grao · December 2014

I'd be fine with playing the raid's support as a sorcerer, casting spells on the boss to increase the DSP of your raid and decrease the boss damage output, casting AoE's on your group to make them stronger or even to reflect damage, deny spells etc. Unfortunately on top of having mediocre damage, Sorcerer's utility also sucks.

Our pets are killed 10 seconds into any fights because their health doesn't scale to your health and because the AI is too stupid to dodge spells. Also, ZoS is too lazy to make pets only get hit by abilities that hit the player (This was suggested over and over starting on Beta).

Because no CCs work on bosses, the majority of our Dark Magic skills are halved, if not completely negated. ZoS nerfed the only actually useful spell from Dark Magic (Draedric Mines). Apparently bosses should NEVER activate those... Well, now even mammoths can walk over them without ever activating them .Great ZoS! (And don't you dare say Crystal Fragments is useful... That stupidly long cast time and animation makes you lose DPS even when the stupid spell Procs)

So... Two of our Skill Trees are useless... Lets look into the last one. Our Execute starts when the boss is at 20% health while NBs start at 25%. Why the difference? I don't know... Our AoE would be ok, but you hardly ever use AoEs in Boss fights, not to mention, activating most of the Synergies is a loss on DPS for the raid, so no one does it. Bolt Escape was nerfed because of so much community QQ, but either way, it never worked perfectly and it is a useless ability on PvE (Yes ZoS, Streak still bugs 20% of the times not transporting you forward as it should. And Ball of Lightning Doesn't absorb enough projectiles to be useful, not to mention the thing is a huge target on PvP).

TL:DR Sorcerers are forced into one of the most boring rotations I ever experienced in MMOs. EVER. Light Attack + Crushing Shock while keeping Critical Surge and Inner Light up is SO DAMN BORING! And it is not even rewarding as you do 20% less damage then the under-geared DK. We are forced to build towards Weapon Power (which SCREWS with our Ult's Damage and out execution Damage) and Crit since our damaging spells are generally useless with long casts and stupidly long animations... Sigh... And now you guys from ZoS are planning to nerf the last Sorc skill we actually use a lot... I feel the love.

Grao · December 2014

Gyudan wrote: »

X3ina wrote: »

What makes us so OP: crazy regen from critical surge + inner light + impulse and of course the skill that has made us simply unbeatable = crushing shock ...

With these three skills on the hotbar we simply have no rivals in the amount of damage caused in the top-end PvE content.

@X3ina: Please, enlighten us and share the awesome DPS that you are getting with your sorcerer. A video would be great!

From what I've seen in the real world of "top-end PvE content", sorcerers get out-DPSed by DKs and nightblades easily, for both single target and AoE. I have yet to see a sorcerer pull 10k+ AoE like the DKs in Sanctum.

Read the entire post

OP is being ironic and I don't think English is his first language.

DeLindsay · December 2014

I've been in Vet Dungeons where a VR14 Sorc in full Legendary gear (with 4pc Aether) was pissed at me just for being a NB because at VR10-11 I could push more DPS than he/she could while I was only wearing epic gear, no Aether. On the other hand I've healed Sorc tanks and quite liked them tanking. And a Sorc Healer is 2nd to none if you want the fastest possible Trial times in AA/HR because of their superb Magicka management on-the-run.

Grao · December 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

I've been in Vet Dungeons where a VR14 Sorc in full Legendary gear (with 4pc Aether) was pissed at me just for being a NB because at VR10-11 I could push more DPS than he/she could while I was only wearing epic gear, no Aether. On the other hand I've healed Sorc tanks and quite liked them tanking. And a Sorc Healer is 2nd to none if you want the fastest possible Trial times in AA/HR because of their superb Magicka management on-the-run.

Tanking a dungeon is not the same as tanking a Raid boss. Yes, Sorcs can tank, but it is nothing when compared to a DK that on top of tanking exceptionally well ( more taunts on their arsenal ), also deals ridiculous amount of damage.

As for Sorc Heals... I am sorry, you are just wrong. Nothing ever beats Templar heals. Nothing. The best they can hope for is to be a off heal/ DPS in raids. They will never, ever be the tank healers.

DeLindsay · December 2014

Grao wrote: »

Tanking a dungeon is not the same as tanking a Raid boss. Yes, Sorcs can tank, but it is nothing when compared to a DK that on top of tanking exceptionally well ( more taunts on their arsenal ), also deals ridiculous amount of damage.

As for Sorc Heals... I am sorry, you are just wrong. Nothing ever beats Templar heals. Nothing. The best they can hope for is to be a off heal/ DPS in raids. They will never, ever be the tank healers.

Obviously Dungeon Tanking is different from Trial Tanking, and I never said it wasn't. And as far as Sorc Healing the FASTEST Trials, maybe you should have been following the leaderboards more. The ~9 min runs for the first ~3 months after Craglorn launched were all with 11 DK's and 1 Sorc (the Healer). So I guess you saying they will never, ever be the Tank Healer is completely wrong because they have been, MANY times. I also never said Sorc BEATS a Templar in Healing, just that they are superior in on-the-go Healing where speed is the ultimate goal because of Dark Exchange.

ALL Classes in ESO have the exact same number of (Taunts in their arsenal), AOE CC is not a taunt. I also never said Sorcs were better Tanks than DKs just that I quite liked having a Sorc tanking a Vet Dungeon.

Grao · December 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Tanking a dungeon is not the same as tanking a Raid boss. Yes, Sorcs can tank, but it is nothing when compared to a DK that on top of tanking exceptionally well ( more taunts on their arsenal ), also deals ridiculous amount of damage.

As for Sorc Heals... I am sorry, you are just wrong. Nothing ever beats Templar heals. Nothing. The best they can hope for is to be a off heal/ DPS in raids. They will never, ever be the tank healers.

Obviously Dungeon Tanking is different from Trial Tanking, and I never said it wasn't. And as far as Sorc Healing the FASTEST Trials, maybe you should have been following the leaderboards more. The ~9 min runs for the first ~3 months after Craglorn launched were all with 11 DK's and 1 Sorc (the Healer). So I guess you saying they will never, ever be the Tank Healer is completely wrong because they have been, MANY times. I also never said Sorc BEATS a Templar in Healing, just that they are superior in on-the-go Healing where speed is the ultimate goal because of Dark Exchange.

ALL Classes in ESO have the exact same number of (Taunts in their arsenal), AOE CC is not a taunt. I also never said Sorcs were better Tanks than DKs just that I quite liked having a Sorc tanking a Vet Dungeon.

LOL with an 11 DK's run any class could have healed them... Even a DK >.> They have enough self regen they barely need any heals. I am speaking of a balanced run that includes NBs, Sorcs, DKs and Templars, not some cheese strat. Also, just so you know, DKs have more taunts then anyone else in the game. Some of their abilities work as taunts even if the tool tip does not mention it.

Any class can spam Healing Springs >.>

DeLindsay · December 2014

Grao wrote: »

Also, just so you know, DKs have more taunts then anyone else in the game. Some of their abilities work as taunts even if the tool tip does not mention it.

They do not, there are only 2 Taunts in the game and all Classes have access to them. Once again, AOE CC (which DK's are vastly superior at) are not taunts, they just get the attention of the enemies first because the Tank is usually the first player to go in.

SIN-X · December 2014

LOL NICE ONE....Thanks I really needed a good joke this morning.
So, in the patch all casters will use crushing shock so there goes that for sorc, There is no nerf to surge coming your just upset that it wont help you as a main buff cause you wont use wep dam as your staff/staff skills scale off spell power in next patch. Single target dk/nb kill magicka sorcs and aoe well impulse also falls to the mighty steel tornado but a HUGE amount but you knew that, so was a good fish now go play another class

eserras7b16_ESO · December 2014

Sorcerers are not getting a nerf:

Stamina build sorcerers will still be doing good endgame DPS. Right now Sorcerers using staff, even capping WeaponPower, can't compete with Nightblades/Dragonknights. But Stamina build sorcerers can. The changes coming with SpellPower on Update 6 will come with Balance, don't worry about it.

Joy_Division · December 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Tanking a dungeon is not the same as tanking a Raid boss. Yes, Sorcs can tank, but it is nothing when compared to a DK that on top of tanking exceptionally well ( more taunts on their arsenal ), also deals ridiculous amount of damage.

As for Sorc Heals... I am sorry, you are just wrong. Nothing ever beats Templar heals. Nothing. The best they can hope for is to be a off heal/ DPS in raids. They will never, ever be the tank healers.

Obviously Dungeon Tanking is different from Trial Tanking, and I never said it wasn't. And as far as Sorc Healing the FASTEST Trials, maybe you should have been following the leaderboards more. The ~9 min runs for the first ~3 months after Craglorn launched were all with 11 DK's and 1 Sorc (the Healer). So I guess you saying they will never, ever be the Tank Healer is completely wrong because they have been, MANY times. I also never said Sorc BEATS a Templar in Healing, just that they are superior in on-the-go Healing where speed is the ultimate goal because of Dark Exchange.

ALL Classes in ESO have the exact same number of (Taunts in their arsenal), AOE CC is not a taunt. I also never said Sorcs were better Tanks than DKs just that I quite liked having a Sorc tanking a Vet Dungeon.

Wait a second here.

My light armor DK with zero tanking gear has tanked every dungeon in the game, including Crypt of Hearts when that dungeon was actually legitimately challenging. Saying that a sorc can tank those like a champ is quite frankly not an impressive accolade.

Also I really think it is disingenuous to point to the fights against the stationary target dummies in AA and Hel Ra and say that just because sorcs can shave a few seconds off those fights that they somehow make comparable healers to templars.

DeLindsay · December 2014

Joy_Division wrote: »

Wait a second here.

My light armor DK with zero tanking gear has tanked every dungeon in the game, including Crypt of Hearts when that dungeon was actually legitimately challenging. Saying that a sorc can tank those like a champ is quite frankly not an impressive accolade.

Also I really think it is disingenuous to point to the fights against the stationary target dummies in AA and Hel Ra and say that just because sorcs can shave a few seconds off those fights that they somehow make comparable healers to templars.

Point out specifically where I said Sorcs can tank anything that a DK can tank like a champ, I just said I quite liked having a Sorc tank while I was healing in a Vet dungeon. Also please point out where I specifically said that Sorcs are comparable healers to Templars. I made a specific and very accurate example of how Sorcs are capable of tank healing and in that specific example are the superior healer due to magicka management.

JaJaLuka · December 2014

Is this a joke thread?

X3ina · December 2014

Its irony, hmm damn not even sure that its a right word for this. And english is not my native language of course so excuse me for my mistakes

Grao · December 2014

X3ina wrote: »

Its irony, hmm damn not even sure that its a right word for this. And english is not my native language of course so excuse me for my mistakes

I think the irony was pretty clear to anyone that read your post all the way. Unfortunately ZoS has a pattern of ignoring skill related concerns for months before taking any sort of action or even answering Forum posts.

Cuyler · December 2014

X3ina wrote: »

Its irony, hmm damn not even sure that its a right word for this. And english is not my native language of course so excuse me for my mistakes

Sarcasm is the word you're looking for

However I believe the sarcasm is lost in translation because so many sorcs truly feel adamant about how bad our class is atm. It's tough to take a joke when you're exhausted from keeping up with the DKs and NBs.

In regards to the topic I just hope @ZOS can really take a look at getting some more out of the class. For instance make crit surge base off spell crit or weapon crit whichever is higher, make summoning tree universal to all classes and replace with anything useful (does anyone even use pets?). As mentioned before raise the execute threshold of mages wrath to 25%. There are so many things you could do to buff and balance the class.....but *sigh*....lead dev must play a DK?

Compounding the problem is that every skill used in a crushing shock build is not exclusive to sorcs, any class can build it, therefore whatever class has the best synergy of passives gets the most out of it, *cough DKs*. I'd like to see a build that uses mostly sorc skills and not be a step down in dps from the universal crushing shame build. Currently it's not possible and screams a complete lack of balance.

TheMachineKiller · December 2014

Stop talking OP.

NordJitsu · December 2014

TheMachineKiller wrote: »

Stop talking OP.

Apparently its a non-native speaker being sarcastic. It was kinda hard to follow but I think he's saying that Sorcs are under-powered in a round about way.

Woolenthreads · December 2014

Grao wrote: »

X3ina wrote: »

Its irony, hmm damn not even sure that its a right word for this. And english is not my native language of course so excuse me for my mistakes

I think the irony was pretty clear to anyone that read your post all the way. Unfortunately ZoS has a pattern of ignoring skill related concerns for months before taking any sort of action or even answering Forum posts.

No. I admit to being guilty of not reading all the way through.

I think many forum users get to a moment where, if the specific point trying to be made isn't there to clearly see in the first two paragraphs and they don't have enough interest or time to read the entirety of a post, they start making a comment.

This is also true for commenting when there are pages of comments, where many are repetitive, looking for a comment that is the same as the one you wish to make is time consuming and by the time you've found it you may have forgotten your specific variation of the POV.

Varicite · December 2014

Wow, almost everything written in the OP is wrong. Impressive.