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Talons - Please enlighten me
Spangla
✭✭✭✭
Can someone explain why these have no immunity?
It is irrelevant that they are roots - they still control you and they still need to be broken like any other effect.
Why should I have to roll dodge 4 times instantly against any dk yet they only have to break my cc once in a blue moon?
It is irrelevant that they are roots - they still control you and they still need to be broken like any other effect.
Why should I have to roll dodge 4 times instantly against any dk yet they only have to break my cc once in a blue moon?
18
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Hypertionb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Can someone explain why these have no immunity?
It is irrelevant that they are roots - they still control you and they still need to be broken like any other effect.
Why should I have to roll dodge 4 times instantly against any dk yet they only have to break my cc once in a blue moon?
you are very right they should provide immunity.
but DK talons are HARDLY the only root in the game... just the most commonly used thanks to the easy "anything close to you" mechanics..
ever go against a smart Sorc and you probably would end up hating Encase just as much.I play every class in every situation. I love them all.12 -
ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭It is not irrelevant they are roots. All roots work this way. Talons just happens to be the one most frequently used in PvP because it's easy to use (no aiming required), is relatively cheap (compared to Sorc's Encase) and cannot be blocked.Edited by ThatHappyCat on 14 December 2014 17:069 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can someone explain why these have no immunity?
It is irrelevant that they are roots - they still control you and they still need to be broken like any other effect.
Well technically, they don't need to be broken. Except for movement, you still have complete control of your character. Sometimes i just ignore them and continue to DPS the DK at close range.
Also, you don't need a CC break to get out of them, like with hard CC.
Not that i would mind talons getting an immunity timer, mind you (i'm a NB
)Yes but why are roots the exception to the rule? I can see no reason
Mainly because unlike hard CC, they do not take away your control of your character. You cannot move, but other than that you can still use abilities etc.Edited by Sharee on 14 December 2014 20:407 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They're the exception because you can still block, attack, turn, ect.
I think Talons was a problem at release because the radius of the skill was larger than you could travel in a single dodge roll. I even made a thread about it:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/84360/broken-talons-in-dragon-knights-online/p1
But since they reduced the radius so that a dodge roll can take you out of range I think they're fine. All it takes to beat them now is skilled play because there is a working counter (dodge roll away and you can't be placed back in Talons instantly like before.)4 -
Spangla✭✭✭✭And no there isnt really a counter
Dodge roll away
Shield Charge talon
Dodge Roll
Shield Charge Talon
repeat the easy faceroll dks have enjoyed since launch11 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I used to use encase in pvp, but it costs too much and its bugged and don't always work. I have seen it bug in pve too requiring 2 cast to get it to work on trash mobs.
Better off using streak to stun.
I wish they would make rune prison instant cast, its only single target unlike encase that can root 6 at a time I do believe. Encase just costs too much for what it does.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
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Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
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Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭None of the issues with root spamming would be a problem if we could safely use purge, but we can't. Purge gets rid of roots but the purge bug where it makes dots like elemental wall tick all at once and blow you up is seriously causing problems2013
rip decibel3 -
Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And watch them close or hide this thread soon because they have no idea how to fix the damn thing and don't want everyone to know the bug and exploit it (even tho they already are)2013
rip decibel3 -
Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And no there isnt really a counter
Dodge roll away
Shield Charge talon
Dodge Roll
Shield Charge Talon
repeat the easy faceroll dks have enjoyed since launch
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NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And no there isnt really a counter
Dodge roll away
Shield Charge talon
Dodge Roll
Shield Charge Talon
repeat the easy faceroll dks have enjoyed since launch
There are counters to counters.
For your example how about using BE before or after dodge rolling? Or using a cc of your own to prevent his charge? We could go back and forth foreve with what iffs.
Point is there is a direct counter. At launch, there wasn't.
The issues with encase are separate. I agree that it could use a cost reduction. The bugs also need to be fixed (where it casts but doesn't cc anyone.)
But Encase being broken isn't a problem with Talons.4 -
Spangla✭✭✭✭Using BE? Wasn't aware it was available to all class's.
If i use a CC of my own (and here is my point) he'll be immune to it and carry on spamming talons lol because dk's are special and a rule unto themselves apparently. So no there is not really a counter2 -
Spangla✭✭✭✭Unless you are tanky enough to stand and take the damage.
If you are then you are either a dk, or a tank from another class meaning you do less damage than the dk tank and are a bit useless in comparison.
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Sublime✭✭✭✭Using BE? Wasn't aware it was available to all class's.
If i use a CC of my own (and here is my point) he'll be immune to it and carry on spamming talons lol because dk's are special and a rule unto themselves apparently. So no there is not really a counter
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Nihil✭✭✭2 cents quick.
You have a problem with talons but not the unbreakable CC that vampires get (saw you said leave it in another thread)?
Each class basically have some BS move they can pull off, NB's can fear, which although players can block, they can't attack and it still affects people who are blocking, only hard CC that I know of that does this, should this be fixed? I don't think so.3 -
Spangla✭✭✭✭1, Why would you ever use that vamp cc in a 1v1? It does nothing apart from make all your vamp skills cost more. It may be good 2v1. However in a 2v1 the 2 should/would win anyway so that is irrelevant.
2, Fear is very expensive and essentially only stops your opponent from attacking for a few secs. Wheres as talons do damage, stop you moving, and carry a synergy. They are cheap enough to be spammed and have no timer. Fear is one of the best skills nb's have. However i'd swap it for talons in a heart beat. Id still get the relief from being attacked that fear offers cause id just talon then walk away talon then walk away. Actually the more I think about it the more op talons are. By doing this I could also stop a melee opponent from attacking. Talons therefore would do the same job as fear only much much more.Edited by Spangla on 16 December 2014 10:042 -
r.jan_emailb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Rapid Maneuver provides immunity againts any skill that impacts your movement (talons, caltrops, oil catapults etc.). You can also purge/cleane/purifying ritual/some NB stealth skill/BE and of course dodgeroll out of it ;-).Lairgren | DC Dragonknight - August Palatine
playing for eXile
I'm done, CU somewhere else.2 -
Spangla✭✭✭✭Ok i'll fill up my bar with skills specifically designed to counter it and enchant glyphs that reduce the cost of dodge roll so I can roll more out of it.
They aren't op honestly except I had to specifically design a character around nullifying them.
Good one3 -
Nihil✭✭✭I bring up the vamp stun to try and figure out the mind set you are coming at this argument. You made a statement
So why then vampire feeding an exception to the rule that every CC can be broken out of? The fact that it is an exception to the rule, and you support this exception, shows that not everything has to work the exact same way as another ability.Yes but why are roots the exception to the rule? I can see no reason
Roots are the second weakest CC in the game ( I am counting snares as a CC) as they don't actually stop you from acting, so to balance this glaring weakness in the CC shouldn't it have some advantage? Stuns, knock down, fear, and disorients (although due to disorients being able to be blocked with 0 stamina and can be broken out of while still breaking on damage, these aren't all that useful) all stop you from attacking, so these should have a more drastic draw back then a root due to them being stronger in nature.Edited by Nihil on 16 December 2014 10:163 -
G0ku✭✭✭✭2 cents quick.
You have a problem with talons but not the unbreakable CC that vampires get (saw you said leave it in another thread)?
Each class basically have some BS move they can pull off, NB's can fear, which although players can block, they can't attack and it still affects people who are blocking, only hard CC that I know of that does this, should this be fixed? I don't think so.
Like the unbreakable CC you cause with invasion and talons which still seems not to be fixed?
You can cc-break fear by the way.
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r.jan_emailb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Ok i'll fill up my bar with skills specifically designed to counter it and enchant glyphs that reduce the cost of dodge roll so I can roll more out of it.
They aren't op honestly except I had to specifically design a character around nullifying them.
Good one
Well, a lot of the skills on my bar are used to counter stuff. I have purge against dots, scales/invasion against range dds, cinder storm/talons for close combat, immovable against hard cc (and for extra armor), GDB for self heal and sometimes razor armor against physical damage. Leaves two skills, wall of elements (or elemental ring) and lava whip which is actually morphed so I get some health back every now and then. So I have exactly one purely offensive skill on my bar, and two more (whip/talons) that I can use to actively do damage as well. I also use defensive sets, so yeah. Building/gearing for full offense is a classic risk/reward thing.
Lairgren | DC Dragonknight - August Palatine
playing for eXile
I'm done, CU somewhere else.1 -
Nihil✭✭✭2 cents quick.
You have a problem with talons but not the unbreakable CC that vampires get (saw you said leave it in another thread)?
Each class basically have some BS move they can pull off, NB's can fear, which although players can block, they can't attack and it still affects people who are blocking, only hard CC that I know of that does this, should this be fixed? I don't think so.
Like the unbreakable CC you cause with invasion and talons which still seems not to be fixed?
You can cc-break fear by the way.
That is a different argument, one that doesn't really fit with in his argument ( and I do think is a little bit more broken then even vampire feeding as it can be used multiple times by the same player, when rooted you should still be able to perform CC break as it has nothing to do with movement, imo). This is more of a thread (from what I can tell) to add an immunity to root after it expires or you roll out of it.
Yes you can, never said you couldn't, what I was showing is that the NB class has an ability of their own that is "an exception to the rules". As it is the only hard CC that can't be blocked this can make it a very strong tool (one that I would bet a lot of sorcs, not all, would give up encase for).0 -
Can someone explain why these have no immunity?
It is irrelevant that they are roots - they still control you and they still need to be broken like any other effect.
Why should I have to roll dodge 4 times instantly against any dk yet they only have to break my cc once in a blue moon?
so you can play prey while your buddies kill him? i don't get PVP posts regarding abilities sometimes. its not supposed to be about what you can do 1v1 and PVP rarely is, its about what a group of chars can do together. how about you make friends with a DK and have him talon spam while you kill the person(s) rooted.I will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
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1894-19182 -
Sublime✭✭✭✭ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »Can someone explain why these have no immunity?
It is irrelevant that they are roots - they still control you and they still need to be broken like any other effect.
Why should I have to roll dodge 4 times instantly against any dk yet they only have to break my cc once in a blue moon?
so you can play prey while your buddies kill him? i don't get PVP posts regarding abilities sometimes. its not supposed to be about what you can do 1v1 and PVP rarely is, its about what a group of chars can do together. how about you make friends with a DK and have him talon spam while you kill the person(s) rooted.
There are a lot of different ways to play PvP: Duel, Zerging, Ganking, Nightcapping, Bomb Squad Style, Siegeing ...
And all of them deserve equal attention in my eyes.EU | For those who want to improve their behaviour: the science behind shaping player bahaviour (presentation)2 -
Spangla✭✭✭✭I'd be happy to have that vamp cc removed completely if talons got a cc timer like EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME.
Ive never used it anyway you nap its only noobs who would even consider it3 -
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »Can someone explain why these have no immunity?
It is irrelevant that they are roots - they still control you and they still need to be broken like any other effect.
Why should I have to roll dodge 4 times instantly against any dk yet they only have to break my cc once in a blue moon?
so you can play prey while your buddies kill him? i don't get PVP posts regarding abilities sometimes. its not supposed to be about what you can do 1v1 and PVP rarely is, its about what a group of chars can do together. how about you make friends with a DK and have him talon spam while you kill the person(s) rooted.
There are a lot of different ways to play PvP: Duel, Zerging, Ganking, Nightcapping, Bomb Squad Style, Siegeing ...
And all of them deserve equal attention in my eyes.
this game doesn't have a "duel" feature because it wasn't in their design plans and i wouldn't agree that its "pvp" in its traditional sense, zerging still requires more than 1 person or else its just an idiot running into a group or a "duel", honestly i think you are just splitting hairs to prove a moot point. PVP by the games design is supposed to consist of a group of individuals. if you want to act like a rogue and go off on your own, get owned, then come to the forums for "nerf <x>" or "change <y>", then you won't get support from me. if you want to talk about how inhale used to hit everyone making DKs life-siphon gods, then ill agree and support ya, but the point of talons is to root individuals in place and so you and your pvp buddies/guild/group/castle/fortress/siege could kill a sitting target or slow down a group of zergers.
long story short- your eyes can see whatever you want them to, but as far as the creators are concerned, its about group PVP.I will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
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