My Dream Templar Patch

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

Note: my dream Templar patch does not mean "give me all the buffs", I genuinely do want balance for Templars. Hence these notes include nerfs as well as buffs, all in the name of increasing build diversity.

Of particular interest here is my suggested nerf to Breath of Life, which currently is far too powerful and overshadows almost all other healing skills in PvE. I'm saying this as someone who mostly plays Templar healer.

Aedric Spear wrote:

Radial Sweep

Radius increased from 5m to 8m.

The radius is deceptively small given the size of the graphics. It also misses a lot when differences in elevation are involved.

Puncturing Sweep

Renamed to Restoring Strikes. Healing from damage dealt reduced from 40% to 20%.

Heals far too much, especially when used against multiple enemies. Also the name no longer makes sense.

Aurora Javelin

Now increases range from 20m to 28m. Maximum damage boost from distance increased from 40% to 60%.

Damage increase was too small and drops off too quickly.

Binding Javelin

No longer increases knockdown duration. Now immobilises target for 3s.

Not useful in PvP due to CC breaking/immunity and its high magicka cost. Plus Templars need a source of immobilise.

Luminous Shards

No longer restores more magicka and stamina when synergised. Now grants 25% of maximum magicka when synergised.

Original effect was rather small, not worth taking over Blazing Spear's incredible damage potential.

Radiant Ward

No longer increases shield strength per enemy hit. Now restores 2% of maximum stamina when shield takes damage.

Original effect made almost no difference. This would work well for stamina Templars.

Dawn's Wrath wrote:

Nova

Ultimate cost reduced from 300 to 250.

Too costly for what it does compared to similar Ultimates from other classes.

Sun Fire

Projectile speed increased by 50%.

Too slow, can actually be outrun in PvP.

Vampire's Bane

No longer increases DoT and snare duration. Now increases direct damage by 25%.

Original version doesn't actually add to DPS, it just gave one extra tick of the DoT. Now a viable alternative to Force Shock.

Solar Flare

No longer increases weapon and spell power against target and nearby enemies for next hit. Now increases damage taken by target by 15% for 4s. Bonus applies for Solar Flare and its morphs.

Original effect was finicky and not very useful or reliable.

Solar Barrage

No longer removes cast time. Now also disorients affected enemies for 2s.

Templars have enough spammable AoE options. Also gives Templar tanks an AoE control ability.

Backlash

Cast time reduced from 1.5s to 0.8s.

Too clunky to use, and really isn't strong enough to justify that long of a cast time.

Purifying Light

Healing radius increased by 300%.

Original radius was too small to heal anyone.

Eclipse

No longer affected by CC breaking/immunity. Duration reduced from 4s to 3s. Casting on the same target within 8s costs 100% more magicka.

Being affected by CC breaking/immunity made it extremely limited in PvP. Reduced duration and escalating costs should prevent it from being too crippling.

Blinding Light

Now pulses every 2s for 6s.

Made Blinding Flashes baseline. Doesn't justify the magicka cost otherwise.

Searing Light

Damage reduced by 50%.

Reduced damage since it now pulses multiple times.

Blinding Flashes

Renamed to Dazzling Light. Radius increased from 5m to 8m.

The original Blinding Flashes is now baseline, so new effect.

Restoring Light wrote:

Breath of Life

Now only heals up to 2 nearby allies if they are within 6m of primary target.

IMO, the old Breath of Life encouraged careless play. Making the side heals only work on grouped allies is more in line with Restoration staff skills and should hopefully equalise the playing field between Templar and non-Templar healers.

Healing Ritual

Cast time reduced from 2s to 1.3s. Radius increased from 10m to 12m.

Took way too long to cast. And now that Breath of Life is no longer a one-button wonder, Templars need a proper group heal.

Radiant Aura

No longer increases radius. Now increases magicka regeneration by 50% when activated.

Old effect was useless. Plus Templars need more magicka management.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · December 2014

Leave bol alone. Some people want to heal anyone who needs it not just friends in your group. Nerf distance on the only distance heal that isn't dot? hell no.
80% magical Regan is insane.
I have more problems with this but don't care to get into it.
I can balance every move threads are...

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

Leave bol alone. Some people want to heal anyone who needs it not just friends in your group. Nerf distance on the only distance heal that isn't dot? hell no.
80% magical Regan is insane.
I have more problems with this but don't care to get into it.
I can balance every move threads are...

I don't think you understand what the BoL nerf entails. It still has a range of 28m, but the side heals can only heal allies within 4.5m of the primary target. Sort of like how Reflective Light works.

Fact of the matter is, BoL is toxic for healers. It's the reason why people refuse non-Templar healers in harder PvE content, and demand Templars who don't want to heal to be healers if there aren't other Templars in the group. It encourages people to spread out and not bother making things easier for healers that cannot use BoL.

I'm sure all non-Templar healers and any Templar healer that cares about balance would agree with me here.

With Radiant Aura, you could say the same about 80% stamina regen from the base skill. Remember it's subject to soft-capping, and Templars really need more magicka management skills.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · December 2014

"Restoring Focus

No longer increases healing received while inside Focus. Now increases outgoing healing by 15%.

Extra boost for Templar healers without easy-mode Breath of Life. Plus old effect didn't do much."

templar healers are strong enough as they are (not talking about mag management, this skill is currently a good tank skill, changing it would make it alot less usefull tanking

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

"Restoring Focus

No longer increases healing received while inside Focus. Now increases outgoing healing by 15%.

Extra boost for Templar healers without easy-mode Breath of Life. Plus old effect didn't do much."

templar healers are strong enough as they are (not talking about mag management, this skill is currently a good tank skill, changing it would make it alot less usefull tanking

You need to take every change into account. Since I'm suggesting a nerf to Breath of Life there should be some stuff to compensate.

... Not to mention outgoing healing means any heal you use, so for self-healing it's exactly the same. Only thing this affects is healing from other people.

Pmarsico9 · December 2014

You essentially ruin Templar tanking. You ignore the shortcomings of Templar PVE DPS class abilities and act as if Backlash is balance-able in its current iteration at all.

The Puncturing Sweep change is also laughable. It barely keeps up with damage taken at Vet levels now.

No proposed synergy between Dawn's Wrath abilities. No buffs to overall weak passives compared to other classes.

Additionally, the Breath of Life change is lol. It doesn't promote careless play. It's the only oh-*** button that any healer has and the spill over heals to two other targets are completely necessary since in any group environment, you need to be able to heal more than one person at any time per cast. They already have a morph if you feel that's OP'd. Nor do you touch upon how weak the Healing Ultimate is.

This, overall, is a veiled "Nerf the Templar that killed me" thread.

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

You essentially ruin Templar tanking. You ignore the shortcomings of Templar PVE DPS class abilities and act as if Backlash is balance-able in its current iteration at all.

The Puncturing Sweep change is also laughable. It barely keeps up with damage taken at Vet levels now.

No proposed synergy between Dawn's Wrath abilities. No buffs to overall weak passives compared to other classes.

Additionally, the Breath of Life change is lol. It doesn't promote careless play. It's the only oh-*** button that any healer has and the spill over heals to two other targets are completely necessary since in any group environment, you need to be able to heal more than one person at any time per cast. They already have a morph if you feel that's OP'd. Nor do you touch upon how weak the Healing Ultimate is.

This, overall, is a veiled "Nerf the Templar that killed me" thread.

I should think that my posts on the forums makes it very clear that I am a Templar main. Healer main in fact, but I also dabble in tanking and magic DPS (weak as it may be, hence a number of suggestions for Templar magic DPS: which apparently you think I've ignored).

Not sure why you'd say that I've "ruined" Templar tanking when I've suggested multiple changes to help Templar tanks, such as changes to Radiant Ward, Solar Barrage and Blinding Light. The only "nerf" would be increased cost to Sun Shield, which is hardly essential to Templar tanking and in fact would affect tanks the least, as we generally want to block most of the time (which doesn't benefit Sun Shield much) and use Sun Shield only occasionally.

I have no problems healing myself with Puncturing Sweep in any Veteran content, whether it be solo Craglorn, Vet Dungeons or DSA (especially when used in conjunction with Sun Shield). Plus Templars already have great healing in Rushed Ceremony, Puncturing Sweep's self-healing is almost superfluous.

Breath of Life encourages players to not care about grouping up for Grand Healing, which is what non-Templars have to put up with. The change does not remove the side heals, it simply encourages players to group up so there isn't two different tactics for Templar and non-Templar healers. As it is people prefer Templar healers to the exclusion of other healers because there is no need to group up for heals, which is not a good thing.

Besides, did you not yourself suggest that Breath of Life should be given over to the Restoration staff? You evidently realise how toxic it is for non-Templar healers, so why are you disagreeing with me here?

I'm starting to feel you are disagreeing for the sake of it.

EDIT: Rite of Passage is not weak. 20% damage reduction from Remembrance is strong and is often used as an alternative to Nova in trials. If I'm not mistaken, you still haven't managed to get into any trials yet, correct?

JLB · December 2014

So huge nerf for Templar tanks and to BoL, just for the sake of it. No thank you.

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

JLB wrote: »

So huge nerf for Templar tanks and to BoL, just for the sake of it. No thank you.

Well, there's a very good reason for knocking BoL down a notch (as I've detailed multiple times already).

As for Templar tanks, I'm confused: do you guys use Puncturing Sweeps and spam Sun Shield as tanks? I've never seen a Templar tank use Puncturing Sweep, and Sun Shield is only used occasionally for the brief moments when block mitigation isn't quite sufficient. If anything Radiant Ward is now pretty useful for Templar tanks, and Solar Barrage can be used as an AoE disable which Templars currently lack. Blinding Flashes/Dazzling Light is also now considerably more reliable for mitigating damage: I'd personally use it instead of Sun Shield as it will work much better with blocking.

Try to take my changes as a whole instead of looking at individual elements by themselves. The goal of my changes is to improve build diversity for Templars, and part of that may involve shaking the existing meta. Think about how you can change your playstyle around these changes: personally I think it's an overall buff (apart from Templar healing, but I feel it is justified: and this is from someone who plays Templar healer most of the time).

booksmcread · December 2014

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

You essentially ruin Templar tanking. You ignore the shortcomings of Templar PVE DPS class abilities and act as if Backlash is balance-able in its current iteration at all.

The Puncturing Sweep change is also laughable. It barely keeps up with damage taken at Vet levels now.

No proposed synergy between Dawn's Wrath abilities. No buffs to overall weak passives compared to other classes.

Additionally, the Breath of Life change is lol. It doesn't promote careless play. It's the only oh-*** button that any healer has and the spill over heals to two other targets are completely necessary since in any group environment, you need to be able to heal more than one person at any time per cast. They already have a morph if you feel that's OP'd. Nor do you touch upon how weak the Healing Ultimate is.

This, overall, is a veiled "Nerf the Templar that killed me" thread.

Have to agree.

Gyudan · December 2014

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Restoring Focus

No longer increases healing received while inside Focus. Now increases outgoing healing by 15%.

Extra boost for Templar healers without easy-mode Breath of Life. Plus old effect didn't do much.

Yes, templars really need +15% healing. They should be the only class allowed to heal in the first place. Because templars.
Dear readers, OP will now be collecting all your resto staves until ZOS outlaws them for players who have not received proper templar training. Thank you.

Tankqull · December 2014

two things.
BOL is needed in its current form in pvp. (and should be enhenced in its efficiency. make it a true smart heal that preferr group mates untill the heal would end in overheal values, at that point it aimes for the lowest out of group target - that way both sides would be pleased)
and to keep it halfway usefull with your changes in pve it needs to be "targettable" temps reticle used for the general direction of the target to be healed.

puncturing sweep
a flat 50% reduction is not what it should recieve more sth. like 40% healvalue/by number of hit targets.
small number crunching
assuming 100dmg per tick on singeltarget => 40 heal [100*0.4]
hitting 6 targets for 1x100 + 5x 50 => 58 heal [350*(0.4/6)] per tick

LunaRae · December 2014

While I agree that the increased radius is pointless, the magicka addition sounds insanely OP. I can get players into the 200 stam regen numbers in my group, and I have 0 doubts if this worked on Magicka then they would easily hit 200 as well.

I also know duelers who would talk smack to you all day long suggesting blinding flashes gets increased to 75% miss rate.

Overall you definitely point out many of the class abilities faults and senseless morphs. One can only hope the dev gods are using their brains and when 1.6 lands on PTS there are SIGNIFICANT improvements, not just to Templars but all classes.

Pmarsico9 · December 2014

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

JLB wrote: »

So huge nerf for Templar tanks and to BoL, just for the sake of it. No thank you.

Well, there's a very good reason for knocking BoL down a notch (as I've detailed multiple times already).

As for Templar tanks, I'm confused: do you guys use Puncturing Sweeps and spam Sun Shield as tanks? I've never seen a Templar tank use Puncturing Sweep, and Sun Shield is only used occasionally for the brief moments when block mitigation isn't quite sufficient. If anything Radiant Ward is now pretty useful for Templar tanks, and Solar Barrage can be used as an AoE disable which Templars currently lack. Blinding Flashes/Dazzling Light is also now considerably more reliable for mitigating damage: I'd personally use it instead of Sun Shield as it will work much better with blocking.

Try to take my changes as a whole instead of looking at individual elements by themselves. The goal of my changes is to improve build diversity for Templars, and part of that may involve shaking the existing meta. Think about how you can change your playstyle around these changes: personally I think it's an overall buff (apart from Templar healing, but I feel it is justified: and this is from someone who plays Templar healer most of the time).

No, we use Solar Barrage for DPS while tanking. Templars are the only tanks in the game that can run into a pack with Caltrops, Blazing Spear, and two Solar Barrages and have everything amazingly pissed off at you and then have a massive strength Blazing Shield up that you maintain uptime on as much as possible and effectively AoE tank without being made of playdough.

Lastly, increasing the magicka cost of Blazing Shield is ignoring the issue: It's still buggy. It hits too hard in PVP. That issue needs remedied. It needs nothing beyond that. Why? Because increasing its magicka cost seems fine in a vacuum, but it doesn't factor in that a heavy-armored tank is going to have a very limited Magicka pool to begin with, and furthermore, takes away from the ability to self-heal or support heal while tanking. Which if they aren't going to make a true threat table in this game, is massively important because holding block and tabbing out taunts is not engaging and they certainly cannot DPS or they'd be OP'd.

You take away that combination, you take away a very large part of at least a 6 second window where you can gain initial aggro.

The Puncturing sweep change is pointless in regards to soloing. That healing is needed as it is now, simply because the class doesn't have CC worth mentioning. There's no Encase, Hysteria, or Talons for the class to use to alter positioning. All it has is the ability to somewhat outheal incoming damage. If anything, the only change that Sweep needs is quicker animation and quicker put out of the damage with perhaps a removal of the knockback.

As for breath of life, the issue is that the tool is great and needed FOR ANY HEALER. Swap Blessing of Protection and Rushed Ceremony like this:

Blessing of Protection moved to Restoring Light: Heals in a cone in front of you for <amount> and heals the Templar for an additional 30% of that amount. The morph for Combat Prayer then moves into utility like it should be.

Rushed Ceremony and its morphs moved to Resto staff.

Blessing of Protection fits the kit of tanks and healers better.

As for Remembrance: Nova is a preferred ultimate. Always. It's only worth its salt if you don't have enough Ult for Nova or you are low on magicka and have to still heal. The damage reduction is greater, the damage is more useful, and the synergy provides CC on adds.

Breath of Life encourages players to not care about grouping up for Grand Healing, which is what non-Templars have to put up with.

That's not the issue. The issue is that the restoration staff is underpowered overall because it's missing a burst heal in its kit. Magicka Spring's AoE limitations hurt game play and limit encounter design. It's that simple.

JLB · December 2014

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

As for Templar tanks, I'm confused: do you guys use Puncturing Sweeps and spam Sun Shield as tanks?

You are the one that linked Puncturing Sweep to tanking, not me.
Regarding Sun Shield Shield, you answered yourself:

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

and Sun Shield is only used occasionally for the brief moments when block mitigation isn't quite sufficient.

Exactly. Because, ocasionally, Sun Shield helps to survive heavy damage or even gives your healer a few seconds in a tight spot. And because in heavy armour, the cost is expensive enough so it is the perfectly balanced skill for tanking.

Restoring Focus... that extra +15% healing received is very good for tanks. Another unneeded nerf in the tanking area. But hey, let's make it boost healers with +15% more healing, and at the same time BoL needs a nerf because is OP. Sorry, I just don't get it.

There are some points I could agree with, some of them I've actually suggested them long time ago, but many changes you (or the quoted OP) suggest are totally uncalled for.

static_recharge · December 2014

I use my Templar for both healing and tanking. Some of these changes (as others have mentioned) would greatly degrade my ability to tank as a Templar. I like to be able to do both effectively, not just heal.

Pmarsico9 · December 2014

JLB wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

As for Templar tanks, I'm confused: do you guys use Puncturing Sweeps and spam Sun Shield as tanks?

You are the one that linked Puncturing Sweep to tanking, not me.
Regarding Sun Shield Shield, you answered yourself:

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

and Sun Shield is only used occasionally for the brief moments when block mitigation isn't quite sufficient.

Exactly. Because, ocasionally, Sun Shield helps to survive heavy damage or even gives your healer a few seconds in a tight spot. And because in heavy armour, the cost is expensive enough so it is the perfectly balanced skill for tanking.

Restoring Focus... that extra +15% healing received is very good for tanks. Another unneeded nerf in the tanking area. But hey, let's make it boost healers with +15% more healing, and at the same time BoL needs a nerf because is OP. Sorry, I just don't get it.

There are some points I could agree with, some of them I've actually suggested them long time ago, but many changes you (or the quoted OP) suggest are totally uncalled for.

Meh, Sun Shield, Light Armor, Rune Focus, Empowering Sweep, and Immovable are the only way a tank actually feels like a tank in this game.

It's really that simple. The mechanics of shields and how they factor damage as if you were in 0 armor and had 0 spell resist, the ease at which you can hit hard caps on mitigation at a flat 50% combined are really why Templars make such good tanks:

They can exceed those caps and they should. They don't have the CC of the other three classes.

At this point, my perspective shifts from being on "My Dream Templar Patch" to "Why they need to make tanking in this game a lot more interesting and desirable."

Because the OP is saying not to take his suggestions in a vacuum on their own, but simultaneously, the OP doesn't tank nor does the OP factor in what the changes would in fact do to Tanklars who wear heavy. But it all speaks to a much larger issue overall:

Tanking is very niche, not massively useful, and it's easy for DPS to hit the same mitigation hardcaps as a tank (50% overall) simply by blocking. So the only means to push that higher is to have magicka to support being able to maximize mitigation as much as possible, at least in my opinion. Tanking doesn't feel like tanking unless the tank is measurably more survivable when not blocking. And that's what Sun Shield allows because of how Sun Shield eats the same amount of damage whether you are blocking or not.

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

Tankqull wrote: »

two things.
BOL is needed in its current form in pvp.

A class-specific skill should never be needed for an entire role.

JLB wrote: »

Exactly. Because, ocasionally, Sun Shield helps to survive heavy damage or even gives your healer a few seconds in a tight spot. And because in heavy armour, the cost is expensive enough so it is the perfectly balanced skill for tanking.

Restoring Focus... that extra +15% healing received is very good for tanks. Another unneeded nerf in the tanking area. But hey, let's make it boost healers with +15% more healing, and at the same time BoL needs a nerf because is OP. Sorry, I just don't get it.

A 25% increase to magicka cost wouldn't affect you that much if you use the skill only "occasionally", especially if you aren't spamming any magicka skills. With regards to Restoring Focus, I'd argue that Channelled Focus would be a better option particularly if you feel you need magicka, and it's still effective for self-healing.

BoL needs a nerf not because its healing is OP, but because it's single-handedly responsible for the current meta where people don't care anything about positioning to help non-Templar healers out, as Breath of Life can heal anyone within a radius of 28 metres. That means you can be up to 56 metres from an ally and still get a huge heal from a Templar in the middle, whereas with other healers you need to be within a 8 metre radius to be healed.

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

No, we use Solar Barrage for DPS while tanking. Templars are the only tanks in the game that can run into a pack with Caltrops, Blazing Spear, and two Solar Barrages and have everything amazingly pissed off at you and then have a massive strength Blazing Shield up that you maintain uptime on as much as possible and effectively AoE tank without being made of playdough.

Lastly, increasing the magicka cost of Blazing Shield is ignoring the issue: It's still buggy. It hits too hard in PVP. That issue needs remedied. It needs nothing beyond that. Why? Because increasing its magicka cost seems fine in a vacuum, but it doesn't factor in that a heavy-armored tank is going to have a very limited Magicka pool to begin with, and furthermore, takes away from the ability to self-heal or support heal while tanking. Which if they aren't going to make a true threat table in this game, is massively important because holding block and tabbing out taunts is not engaging and they certainly cannot DPS or they'd be OP'd.

You take away that combination, you take away a very large part of at least a 6 second window where you can gain initial aggro.

The Puncturing sweep change is pointless in regards to soloing. That healing is needed as it is now, simply because the class doesn't have CC worth mentioning. There's no Encase, Hysteria, or Talons for the class to use to alter positioning. All it has is the ability to somewhat outheal incoming damage. If anything, the only change that Sweep needs is quicker animation and quicker put out of the damage with perhaps a removal of the knockback.

As for breath of life, the issue is that the tool is great and needed FOR ANY HEALER. Swap Blessing of Protection and Rushed Ceremony like this:

Blessing of Protection moved to Restoring Light: Heals in a cone in front of you for <amount> and heals the Templar for an additional 30% of that amount. The morph for Combat Prayer then moves into utility like it should be.

Rushed Ceremony and its morphs moved to Resto staff.

Blessing of Protection fits the kit of tanks and healers better.

As for Remembrance: Nova is a preferred ultimate. Always. It's only worth its salt if you don't have enough Ult for Nova or you are low on magicka and have to still heal. The damage reduction is greater, the damage is more useful, and the synergy provides CC on adds.

That's not the issue. The issue is that the restoration staff is underpowered overall because it's missing a burst heal in its kit. Magicka Spring's AoE limitations hurt game play and limit encounter design. It's that simple.

If you are a heavy armour, stamina and health-focused tank, your Solar Barrage isn't going to do a lot of damage. And Blazing Spear is almost strictly superior to Solar Barrage, and since skills have no CDs why aren't you just spamming Blazing Spear instead of using both for no real reason? Making Solar Barrage an AoE CC would be far more useful for tanking: instead of spamming AoEs for threat, just use Solar Barrage and CC them all.

And I've never seen any tank, or any good Templar for that matter, use Solar Barrage in its current form. The (unintended?) CD on the skill makes it not worth using.

If you don't spam these magicka skills, you'd probably have more magicka available for Blazing Shield.

Regarding Puncturing Sweep change: with the change to Solar Barrage, you now have an AoE CC. Hence what I said about not taking these changes in a vacuum.

In trials, Remembrance is easier for Templars to cycle, covers a wider area, and is applied to all allies in the area; as opposed to Nova which covers a smaller area and only reduces the damage that enemies in the area output. The great healing provided by Rite more than compensates for the reduced damage reduction. There are situations where Nova is more useful, and situations where Remembrance (or even Practiced Incantation) is superior.

Rite of Passage is very much comparable to Nova in this regard and is certainly not weak.

The burst heal in Restoration staff is meant to be Healing Ward, which is similar in many respects to Rushed Ceremony. Except worse, which is fine.

.....

With regards to BoL and healers, I believe ZoS intends for Restoration staff healing to be "default". BoL is a morph of Rushed Ceremony, meant to be a single target emergency heal. Healing Ritual woiuld've been the Templar's specialist group healing skill, except it sucks and BoL is a much better group healing skill by far because it circumvents what ZoS intended for healing mechanics. I don't believe this is intended, and I'm fairly certain they're looking to remedy this.

JLB · December 2014

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

A 25% increase to magicka cost wouldn't affect you that much if you use the skill only "occasionally", especially if you aren't spamming any magicka skills. With regards to Restoring Focus, I'd argue that Channelled Focus would be a better option particularly if you feel you need magicka, and it's still effective for self-healing.

Blazing Shield works fine for Templars, and for tank roles it's got the perfect balance between cost and effect.
That is already a very good reason why you shouldn't touch the skill. And same goes with BoL, by the way.

Channeled Focus is the best option for healers, Restoring Focus is the best option for tanks. Period.
As a tank, that 15% extra heal from Restoring Focus will help you, your healers and your group/raid a thousand more times than the extra 200ish magicka you can get from Channeled Focus in 20 seconds.

There is no valid reason to increase the cost of Blazing Shield or remove the heal bonus of Restoring Focus for tanks (and give it to healers), except your own personal tastes and an obvious PvP influence, so please don't come up with strange argumentations about PvE tanking when it's obvious you don't know much about it.

Have a good day.

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

I admit to a PvP bias (hence changes like Binding Javelin immobilising and non-CC breakable Eclipse), but I also spend a lot of time doing Vet dungeons, trials and DSA. And I do in fact tank in PvE, although I'm probably a bit atypical in that I tank in full light armour.

Channelled Focus is actually 360 magicka over 18 seconds. But I will admit that I did not think about tanks that don't self-heal (as a magicka-focused tank I tend to heal myself) when I suggested a change to Restoring Focus, I thought the bonus was pretty weak given you already get 30% from Focused Healing.

For those points you've convinced me that Blazing Shield and Restoring Focus don't need changes. However, BoL most definitely does require a change for the reasons I've already listed. It's toxic. It single-handedly shapes the meta with healers. It encourages less skill and cooperation in group content in that the DPS run where they please expecting BoL to heal them wherever they are, with little thought to positioning.

Healing Ritual should be buffed to be the Templar's go-to group heal. Rushed Ceremony and its morphs should remain what they are intended to be: emergency heals in the vein of Steadfast Ward.

Pmarsico9 · December 2014

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

I admit to a PvP bias (hence changes like Binding Javelin immobilising and non-CC breakable Eclipse), but I also spend a lot of time doing Vet dungeons, trials and DSA. And I do in fact tank in PvE, although I'm probably a bit atypical in that I tank in full light armour.

Channelled Focus is actually 360 magicka over 18 seconds. But I will admit that I did not think about tanks that don't self-heal (as a magicka-focused tank I tend to heal myself) when I suggested a change to Restoring Focus, I thought the bonus was pretty weak given you already get 30% from Focused Healing.

For those points you've convinced me that Blazing Shield and Restoring Focus don't need changes. However, BoL most definitely does require a change for the reasons I've already listed. It's toxic. It single-handedly shapes the meta with healers. It encourages less skill and cooperation in group content in that the DPS run where they please expecting BoL to heal them wherever they are, with little thought to positioning.

Healing Ritual should be buffed to be the Templar's go-to group heal. Rushed Ceremony and its morphs should remain what they are intended to be: emergency heals in the vein of Steadfast Ward.

Steadfast Ward is not an emergency heal because shields act as if you aren't wearing armor and blocking doesn't limit the damage they take.

I don't know why you keep persisting with this idea. Your ideas are more nerfs than dream patch and don't buff enough where its needed.

Also:

You criticize me for using Solar Barrage while tanking. Guess what?

Spear Shards doesn't generate near the ultimate of Solar Barrage nor does it provide a minor debuff for all your DPS.

Adding a cast time to it would suck. Especially considering that Luminous Shards is a much more beneficial spell for tanks in PVE simply because they are largely dying for any and all magicka they can get if they are wearing heavy.

Through usage of Solar Barrage, you can keep up Empowering Sweep's buff borderline indefinitely. And it bypasses the 50% hardcap on damage reduction.

GCD or not, adding a cast time would kill it. Adding CC to it would be lame. If AoE CC goes anywhere its blinding light.

Also, Eclipse is terrible. It shouldn't even exist. The class' trees don't have enough damage abilities in them and that's a great place for one.

Pmarsico9 · December 2014

JLB wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

A 25% increase to magicka cost wouldn't affect you that much if you use the skill only "occasionally", especially if you aren't spamming any magicka skills. With regards to Restoring Focus, I'd argue that Channelled Focus would be a better option particularly if you feel you need magicka, and it's still effective for self-healing.

Blazing Shield works fine for Templars, and for tank roles it's got the perfect balance between cost and effect.
That is already a very good reason why you shouldn't touch the skill. And same goes with BoL, by the way.

Channeled Focus is the best option for healers, Restoring Focus is the best option for tanks. Period.
As a tank, that 15% extra heal from Restoring Focus will help you, your healers and your group/raid a thousand more times than the extra 200ish magicka you can get from Channeled Focus in 20 seconds.

There is no valid reason to increase the cost of Blazing Shield or remove the heal bonus of Restoring Focus for tanks (and give it to healers), except your own personal tastes and an obvious PvP influence, so please don't come up with strange argumentations about PvE tanking when it's obvious you don't know much about it.

Have a good day.

Seriously, this entire post should be burned, the suggestions are all terrible.

Khivas_Carrick · December 2014

Before I go over my suggestions, I am first going to say that I did not read all of the replies, but I will in due time. Second, I am now going to say that nerfing BoL is wrong on many accounts, but reassigning it might prove to be the best move around.

Now then, my suggestions:

Aedric Spear wrote:

Radial Sweep

Radius increased from 5m to 10m.
Agreed with your previous reasoning, but 8m still seems too short, but an honest 10m makes for a decent AoE attack and even better Tank Grabbing.

Puncturing Sweep

Renamed to Restoring Strikes. Healing from damage dealt reduced from 40% to 20%.

Agreed again. Makes PvP far too easy when there are multiple enemies attacking you, and this isn't used all that often as a tank due to the channel making you drop block, thus 20% is more than enough for what it's intended. That said, I'd still much rather see this move get redesigned into something that acts more like a single strike.

Aurora Javelin

Range Increased to 28m. Spear now explodes and ignites upon impact, burning an enemy for X over Y Seconds.

Disagreeing with your original design. I have an idea for Vampire's Bane that would make this move work well for any particular build but also go with an idea I had for Blazing Spear to make it a true AoE attack. Essentially, this will be the new magicka based DoT used in both a caster and melee/bow rotation. Also the spear simply flies faster too.

Binding Javelin

No longer increases knockdown duration. Now immobilises target for 3s.

I'm ok with this one, but I have an idea for a Synergy here, which is once an enemy is immobilized, they can enact a synergy to finish off/strike an enemy with the spear or their weapon, whichever lore/RP/Combat Act makes more sense (In my eyes you see an enemy impaled by a spear unable to move, a quick hit to the hea-) That's it. Call the Syngergy Decapitate. Or Eviscerate. Either or. When an enemy is pinned by Binding Javelin, Decapitate/Eviscerate/Whatevs them to finish them off.

Luminous Shards

No longer restores more Magicka and Stamina when synergised. Now grants 20% of maximum Magicka and Health when synergised.

Workable, but I believe both resources back, or better yet, Magicka and Health being restored would be baller.

Blazing Spear

Attack no longer stuns a single target or burns over time, but instead has an increased radius and hits for 50% harder. Spear will explode at the end of the duration for X damage if it isn't synergized.

A true AoE ability that can still restore Stamina to an ally if needed. No longer needed for single target DPS since Aurora Javelin and Vampire's Bane now fill that gap for both Melee/Stamina and Caster Builds.

Radiant Ward

No longer increases shield strength per enemy hit. Now restores 50% of the shield strength as HP when the shield effect ends.

The original was great for tanks going against mobs of enemies that had to survive for some time, such as Vet Spindle or DSA, etc. This would not be used by a single Stamina Templar, especially if they used a 2H because Heavy Attacking is already a part of their rotation, and Bow Templars would never benefit from this because they're too far to get hit unless it's a particular boss mechanic, which are few and far between because a mechanic reaching that far away is most likely going to one shot you.

New idea however would be that it heals when the shield expires. This makes it great for both Tanks and a hard choice for PvP.

Dawn's Wrath wrote:

Nova

Ultimate cost reduced from 300 to 250.

"Too costly for what it does compared to similar Ultimates from other classes." God damn right on that one, and I agree with you on this.

Sun Fire

No longer a ranged attack. Enemies affected by Sunfire suffer a 10% reduction in armor and attack is treated as a magic attack, not fire.

Here's an interesting parallel. Imagine this, that Sunfire is no longer a ranged attack but instead a touch attack, i.e melee casted spell. That's it, the damn thing is used at melee now since Aurora Javelin would be the ranged option. Or will it? Bear with me here.

Vampire's Bane

Single Target attack that hits twice for Fire and Magic, then a Fire based burning DoT. Original Armor Reduction as well.

Bam, hits twice at the same time like a mini Crushing Shock and leaves a DoT while reducing enemy armor.

Reflective Light

Range increased to 28m, hits up to 3 targets, slowing them for 40% and lighting them on fire for X Damage for Y Seconds. Armor reduction still in effect.

And just like that ranged users have a second ranged DoT they can use for their caster and bow builds. Works in tandem with Aurora Javelin and still reduces target armor for the stamina users and will obviously have a new animation to travel faster. Yay or Nay?

Solar Flare

No longer increases weapon and spell power against target and nearby enemies for next hit. Now increases damage taken by target by 15% for 6s. Bonus applies for Solar Flare and its morphs. Cast time reduced to 1 second

"Original effect was finicky and not very useful or reliable." Upped it to 6 seconds, reduce cast time to 1 second. Other then that good job.

Solar Barrage

Removes cast time but deals reduced damage but as an AoE. Now also disorients affected enemies for 2s within 8m. Stuns for 1s if the AoE Critically Hits.

There you go, a tank friendly AoE/Utility.

Backlash

Cast time removed. Damage Cap increased by 20%, does not override other spells of the same or similar type (all templars can use this now).

This move should be instant cast period, no reason why it isn't and frankly since you're the one build up the damage, no reason the damage cap should be so low either.

Purifying Light

Automatically Heals everybody within 15m for X Health when the effect end. May only have 2 Active at a time.

Bam, decent sized heal from any Templar, but only 2 at once can be used or else any additional ones will override each other. That way it can be a decent support move but it can't be spammed to have a never ending group/zerg fest for PvP and doesn't remove the need for healers.

Power Of The Light

Once the attack expires, all allies standing near the target gain an additional 5% Damage Boost and a 300 Point Damage Shield for 5 Seconds. Effect does not stack with each other but instead is refreshed by other Templars using the same skill.

As it says, it'll still increase the melee and tank's DPS and survivability, but it won't stack a bunch so you can have ubermenche shielding, it'll just simply refresh it, that way if you can manage it, you can keep up a nice rotation of this between two Templars, managing a constant +5% damage boost and a damage shield. This also makes it a rather interesting choice to take because the other morph auto heals as one big heal, not a HoT, so if this ever got implemented, enjoy making a choice between two good skills.

Eclipse

No longer affected by CC breaking/immunity. Duration reduced from 4s to 3s. Casting on the same target within 8s costs 100% more magicka.

"Being affected by CC breaking/immunity made it extremely limited in PvP. Reduced duration and escalating costs should prevent it from being too crippling."

I'm ok with this only as long as it doesn't work this way in PvE, where casting in a row is necessary.

Blinding Light

Now pulses every 1s for 6s. Enemies only miss, are not disoriented.

Changed from every 2 Seconds to every 1 Second, to make tanking and PvPing more....alive.

Searing Light

Damages enemy once for X Damage every 2 Seconds.

More tank friendly, damages for a very small amount every 2 seconds.

Blinding Flashes

Renamed to Dazzling Light. Radius increased from 5m to 8m. All enemies affected by the blind are now also disoriented for 4 Seconds.

Made it worth having/choosing one or the other for. One deals damage, one has a chance to deal grossly more damage.

Restoring Light wrote:

Breath of Life

Skill has been removed from the Restoring Light Tree and has been moved to the Restoration Staff Skill Line, traded for Combat Prayer.

I strongly disagree to nerfing this skill. It's a powerful, must have heal for a game like this, and even without wreckless play, there are mechanics in this game that will destroy you if you don't have this skill, thus to make it even for all healers, simply trade places with it for Combat Prayer in the Resto Staff Skill Line and give the staff users breath of life.

If you need a lore standpoint to go off of, then imagine that a spell of this magnitude is simply too damn powerful to channel through your hands alone, thus you need a staff to do it.

Healing Ritual

Cast time reduced from 2s to 1s. Radius increased from 10m to 12m.

Should've been this way from the start.

Lingering Ritual

After the skill has healed, grants a Damage Shield equal to 75% of the amount healed.

To be blunt, Templars need something to toss on other players to protect them better, and this is it. Second, with BoL being moved to Staffs, that means each class get's it's own unique support abilities to bring to the table to offset the super heal, and thus Templar's could use this to both make a good offhealer and support healer, in addition to you know, healing like a boss.

Radiant Aura

No longer increases radius. Now increases magicka regeneration by 80% when activated.

"Old effect was useless. Plus Templars need more magicka management."

You know that video with all the rapping kids in the street, and one kid says something that makes them all go "OHHHHHHH!!!!'? That's what I just did here reading this.

Rune Focus

[/i]Caster is now the focal point of the spell, and it affects all within it's range. This counts for all it's morphs as well.[/i]

Yea you read that right. The current Rune Focus doesn't buff our allies, only us, and it stays where it's cast. Pretty damn dumb in my opinion.

Now everything seen here are the active skills, not the passive ones. I addressed those particular skills in another discussion many moons ago about Aedric Spear and Dawn's Wrath skill line, making such skills like Burning Light Proc on all Melee Attacks for a far lesser amount of damage than the 25% for Aedric Spear skills (making Aedric Spear very melee friendly) and and Prism give a raw flat time and damage increase to the DoTs from Dawn's Wrath, to actually increase DPS.

Khivas_Carrick · December 2014

Welp, read the full thread. I must say, I do not agree at all with your reasoning or logic for why you suggest nerfing skills simply because it shapes the meta. BoL doesn't promote jack with the exception of keeping people alive. There are unavoidable game mechanics in which you need a burst heal as to not bust a blood vessel while healing, and at other times, as you even said, an entire role should not be tied down to a single class skill, which is why I suggested moving it.

As for other class skills, i added my two cents and tossed some ideas around, mainly thought of recently since I learned how to heal a couple of weeks ago (I'm surprisingly good at it, but only thanks to my class. Either way, I know what it's like and what's needed now) but with the knowledge and insight I gained, I can safely say that the only way to be a real healer is to be a full healer.

All these fears of Templars being OP is their DPS and utility got buffed are entirely unfounded, because to do anything in this game you have to go all the way, not just half-ass it and pray for the best. Thus a full healer will fully heal and a full DPS will fully DPS, not a DPS half healing and a healer half Dpsing, although that last one is possible thanks not to the class design but the attribute and armor design.

Pmarsico9 · December 2014

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

All these fears of Templars being OP is their DPS and utility got buffed are entirely unfounded, because Dragon Knights Already Exist.

Fixed.

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

I admit to a PvP bias (hence changes like Binding Javelin immobilising and non-CC breakable Eclipse), but I also spend a lot of time doing Vet dungeons, trials and DSA. And I do in fact tank in PvE, although I'm probably a bit atypical in that I tank in full light armour.

Channelled Focus is actually 360 magicka over 18 seconds. But I will admit that I did not think about tanks that don't self-heal (as a magicka-focused tank I tend to heal myself) when I suggested a change to Restoring Focus, I thought the bonus was pretty weak given you already get 30% from Focused Healing.

For those points you've convinced me that Blazing Shield and Restoring Focus don't need changes. However, BoL most definitely does require a change for the reasons I've already listed. It's toxic. It single-handedly shapes the meta with healers. It encourages less skill and cooperation in group content in that the DPS run where they please expecting BoL to heal them wherever they are, with little thought to positioning.

Healing Ritual should be buffed to be the Templar's go-to group heal. Rushed Ceremony and its morphs should remain what they are intended to be: emergency heals in the vein of Steadfast Ward.

Steadfast Ward is not an emergency heal because shields act as if you aren't wearing armor and blocking doesn't limit the damage they take.

I don't know why you keep persisting with this idea. Your ideas are more nerfs than dream patch and don't buff enough where its needed.

Also:

You criticize me for using Solar Barrage while tanking. Guess what?

Spear Shards doesn't generate near the ultimate of Solar Barrage nor does it provide a minor debuff for all your DPS.

Adding a cast time to it would suck. Especially considering that Luminous Shards is a much more beneficial spell for tanks in PVE simply because they are largely dying for any and all magicka they can get if they are wearing heavy.

Through usage of Solar Barrage, you can keep up Empowering Sweep's buff borderline indefinitely. And it bypasses the 50% hardcap on damage reduction.

GCD or not, adding a cast time would kill it. Adding CC to it would be lame. If AoE CC goes anywhere its blinding light.

Also, Eclipse is terrible. It shouldn't even exist. The class' trees don't have enough damage abilities in them and that's a great place for one.

Steadfast Ward is used in the same way Rushed Ceremony is, as an emergency oh-*** button when someone suddenly gets low. It certainly isn't as strong as Rushed Ceremony for that purpose but I don't think it should be, burst healing is the Templar's forte: hence why I disagree giving it over to the Resto staff. There would be nothing that special about Templar healers then.

Blazing Spear generates more ultimate than Solar Barrage simply for being a DoT. Even if you spam it that's still 2 - 3x more base Ulti generation. The extra 2 Ultimate from Prism doesn't really compare. You can weave Spear and Barrage to take advantage of the debuff but that doesn't actually increase DPS by all that much and IMO there are better ways to use that skill slot.

Solar Barrage in its current implementation overlaps too much with Blazing Spear. They're both basically better versions of Impulse. Also note that my change to Solar Barrage includes the change to the base skill, meaning it's also a stronger AoE debuff. Combined with a CC and relatively large radius I think retaining the cast time is needed.

Eclipse is great if it didn't have that one glaring flaw, and giving it the Bolt Escape treatment would IMO balance it. Given this is a game with no CDs you don't need "more damage abilities", you really just need one to spam. The improvement to Vampire's Bane makes it potentially more damaging than Force Shock, the default attack for most magicka DPS.

Khivas_Carrick · December 2014

Not in the slightest does it do any such thing in my suggestions. Think about it, look at how Force Shock, at rank 1, on a purely stamina, weapon damage templar looks like. 134 Fire, Frost, and Shock Damage all at once, with a chance to do additional elemental effects.

Now let's factor in other debuffs from skills such as Weakness To Elements and Mark Target. At first you have Light Armor granting you Crit Chance and Armor/Spell Pen, which is pretty damn potent for bosses, on top of what's already built into the skill line itself. After that, you have Weakness to Elements granting you further Spell Pen, and should you be a Nightblade, you'll then have Mark Target so you get more bang for the buck AND get to replace Weakness To Elements with a shield or barrier of some sort to offset the fact that you turn yourself into wet tissue paper. You just transformed yourself into a mobile artillery battalion, good job.

Now adding in speccing for magicka, spell damage (update 6 version at least) and set bonuses, etc, that 134, when ranked up and specced right, will be doing a hell of a lot more damage and at a very frightening rate.

The idea I had in store for Vampire's Bane is to lower the damage slightly since it's getting to hit twice, and let the DoT be a supplementary attack that lowers the enemy's armor to aid other melee/stamina dps in the area. The idea for things that do DoTs and debuffs isn't for it to be the main form of DPS, it's to be a supplementary to the thing that does the main DPS, which is why I look at Uppercut and it's morphs and question what @ZoS was thinking when it decided that would be how a bread and butter skill worked. Similar line of thought crossed my mind when I looked at Bow Skills as well, especially when compared to Flurry (which is to say, a raw damaging attack and nothing else).

However, I actually like how the trees are at the moment, each one brings something unique to the table, and although I'd like to see just a bit more synergy between the weapon and their respective skill lines, i.e 2H getting actual raw damage as a passive, DW getting speed, Bows drawing faster, etc. To me, the stamina skills are mostly fine, but the Light Armor and Destro Staff needs a slight overhaul on a few things, mainly the fact that they synergize way too well still when compared to Medium and Heavy Armor.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · December 2014

Leave BoL alone and definitely don't make it a resto skill. Do you want all DK Trials and DSA runs? Because this is how you get all DK trials and DSA runs.

DKs have better magicka management than Templars thanks to that early restoring spirit nerf and DK magicka return on ultimate. Giving DKs access to BoL through resto staff would give the class access to the best heals AND best DPS. There is hardly any reason to use other classes as it is.

Templars have an entire skill line wasted on mostly useless healing skills. Breath of life and the purge are the only decent ones. Anything else is better done with a resto staff.

Should a class who has 1/3 less offensive capabilities by design have one very powerful heal spell that other classes cant access?

YES.

If we give every class the same abilities or nerf every powerful "class only" ability this game will get boring. The only difference between classes will be the particle effects.

If this is your dream templar patch, then you must dream about nerf guns a lot.

Khivas_Carrick · December 2014

Is that to the OP or to me, because rest the *** assured I have a number of changes in mind that would leave Templars a friggun ok after a single skill swap. Read my posts please, you'll see what's up.

Also Nightblades have the best dps atm, not DKs.