I have completed every non-Craglorn quest in the game. Given how broken the group finder is, I won't waste my limited time sitting in a que for an hour or two, only to logoff without having done a thing, so the Craglorn quests won't help. The Cyrodiil quests given 1/7 the XP they used to, and grinding is even worse. That last one million XP to hit Vet 14 will take seveal weeks at this rate.

This is what I don’t get… If we are doing everything in a zone: group dungeons, public dungeons, dolmans, world bosses, etc... and still not gaining close to one level of XP (1.4m roughly) then what strategy are we going to come up with that will allow us to level more efficiently? This problem is even worse if you are still under VR 10 because it can be hard to get any groups in Craglorn.

Are we supposed to be running the same group dungeons over and over again with marginal return for our time? Are we supposed to be grinding over world trash mobs?

How is this giving us options if we HAVE to do everything in a zone to even get close to the next level?

As someone wHo has been here since July of 2013 leveling through it all. here is a list of what the actual break down is suppose to look like.
- VR1 - VR5 Cadwell Silver
- VR6 - VR10 Cadwell Gold
- VR11 VR12 Lower Craglorn
- VR13 - VR14 Upper Craglorn
-
Seriously it isn't that bad. Most of these numbers you guys like to pull out of the air is crazy talk. You need to be VR10 for AA and HC and VR14 is best for SO. VR zones leading to Craglorn should be about 80% to 90% of a VR level. Any faster and you miss a ton of quests in that zone.

thorntk421 wrote: »

Time is NOT the issue. The issue, is there is not enough exp given in a zone to get you to the level of the next zone. How hard is that to understand??

THIS!

The more I read the simpler it seems- dungeon quests get over twice the XP of normal quests. Dungeons are a group activity. The intent appears to be you MUST do group content now (like the convenient new daily pledges) to get to the appropriate VR level as you move through the silver and gold quest zones. Forced grouping for all!

Robocles wrote: »

show previous quotes

VileIntent wrote: »

As someone wHo has been here since July of 2013 leveling through it all. here is a list of what the actual break down is suppose to look like.
- VR1 - VR5 Cadwell Silver
- VR6 - VR10 Cadwell Gold
- VR11 VR12 Lower Craglorn
- VR13 - VR14 Upper Craglorn
-
Seriously it isn't that bad. Most of these numbers you guys like to pull out of the air is crazy talk. You need to be VR10 for AA and HC and VR14 is best for SO. VR zones leading to Craglorn should be about 80% to 90% of a VR level. Any faster and you miss a ton of quests in that zone.

Thanks for your insight. Now go read all the posts and threads on how you no longer get anywhere near a VR per zone, and come back and read how asinine this post is.

I agree with his breakdown of levels. IF that's how it still worked. Right now you would be lucky to get to VR2.5 after finishing Cadwells Silver and, maybe close to VR6 after finishing Cadwells Gold.
It's not hard to understand. Quest turn in exp has been lowered 75-90%.

I just don't understand. ZOS keeps pushing this "time to lv" stuff. Time has NOTHING to do with it. If I clear a VR5 zone I should have made enough exp to take me to VR6(or damn close) because....guess what? THE NEXT ZONE IS LEVEL 6!

I think that what most of us are stressing is that we do not care about it as a measurement of time. This is where the devs start to show their lack of experience with Elder Scrolls. They come from this world of MMO's and have created this to be an MMO with an Elder Scrolls skin.

Maybe at first that was not their intention but it progressively has become more and more so. The very basic concept that they still seem to not grasp is that we want this game to be more like a TES title and less like a typical MMO. That is why we get excited about the release of the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves guild or the spellcrafting system. It's why we get upset when they tell us they are going to increase the veteran ranks. Gaining levels in TES is secondary, unlike in an MMO where it is the primary goal.

This will never truly feel like an Elder Scrolls game as long as it has:

• Linear classes. The concept of min/max should be thrown away and it should simply be a skill based game like Skryim was.
• Theme-park structure. From the beginning you are given restriction after restriction of where you can go and what you can do. It so constraining it actually decreases my enjoyment of main quests.
• Level dependent zones. This ties into the above two. In the first 50 levels I leveled up so fast that I actually had to skip zones. Now I find that in the vet ranks the progression has become longer and more tedious. I can't explore the areas I want to get skyshards or just wander around without first completing two other story lines. And I have absolutely nothing to gain by going back and doing the zones that I missed. This is the most egregious example of how unlike a TES game this is.

I'm not getting into the "play as you want" argument, but please stop pretending this is anything like a single player TES game. You have taken the setting and the creatures and put them in DAoC. Unlike DAoC, this game's intellectual property does have a copyright, which means nobody else can come along and fix the mess you are creating. That's why some TES fans are so appalled by some of these decisions.

The scales are tipping too much towards MMO at this point in some ways, and not enough in others. I know striking the balance is difficult but limiting us is not the solution. Anyone who is curious should read the Wikipedia entry for DAoC. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Age_of_Camelot. The similarities are not even subtle.

The Vet questing since pulling up to Cadwell's Gold is in a nutshell tedious. I love the game, I love the look and for the most part the play, but a group dungeon, 2 public dungeons a dolmen and 5 bosses I got 1% xp. Seriously, I don't mind putting time into the game I do mind getting nothing for the time. It's like I got a 100 on a spelling test with no sticker :P
No credit for two bosses either

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Since we released Update 5, we've been paying very close attention to your concerns about the changes to Experience versus Veteran Point gain. We’d like to address some of those concerns.

First and foremost, we want everyone to know that we have zero interest in trying to extend your playtime by making you grind for experience. That includes grinding quests, monsters, dungeons, or anything else. If people aren't having a good time, we know they won’t stick around, so artificially inflating time spent playing is a self-defeating practice we aren't interested in. Our number one priority is fun (this is a game, after all!) and promoting a diverse array of activity options that allow you to pursue experience gains however you like.

While our intended goal is for it to take the average person 12-15 hours to gain a Veteran Rank, our QA team regularly gains Veteran Ranks on live in 8-10 hours or less. We've also witnessed you, our players, beating that time quite often, too. So, the 12-15 hour estimate is a baseline standard—mileage may vary (and it often does.)

We’re trying to be fairly open with our numbers by communicating our target leveling times, but in the interest of more clarity here are a few more details:

• We add experience multipliers to quests, usually depending on the time taken and relative difficulty. Those experience multipliers look like this:
  • Very Easy = .1
  • Easy = .75
  • Standard = 1
  • Hard = 1.5
  • Very Hard = 2.25
• Point of Interest completion also has these modifiers applied, but most are set to “Standard.”
• Dungeon quest completion has an experience modifier of “Very Hard.”
• We do clamp experience so a single event can’t get you more than 10 percent of your current level.

Our current course of action is to fix the existing bugs, and then analyze before adjusting experience to be even more generous. Again, our goal is not to force a grind, we just don’t want to over-compensate. Thank you all for continuing to share your feedback and concerns on this issue.

What would be very helpful, since there is a lot of vague and contradictory information, would be to have your team run characters up through the Cadwell zones to establish how much of a veteran level a typical character gets for completing a full zone. As originally designed this was of order 15-20 hours per zone (and this is close to the pace that I get as a completionist.) So...with your new system, do you on average gain one level per zone? E.g. if the testers enter the first VR zone at VR1, do they leave at VR2? I think that this is what the quest-oriented players are looking for reassurance on.

="Ohioastro;1376926"]
Once the champion system is in place, you will draw from a common pool for all 50+ characters. So there is no need to level multiple alts about level 50 as far I can see.

Champion system could be next month, next year or next decade.
All details on this are a weird mixture of rumor, wild guesses and wishful thinking.

As far as I care this does not exist and I pay and want to play and progress with my char NOW.
And with this new half-finished transition to whatever it may turn out to be in the end I can not do that if my char is in pre V12/V14 range.

Audigy wrote: »

show previous quotes

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Since we released Update 5, we've been paying very close attention to your concerns about the changes to Experience versus Veteran Point gain. We’d like to address some of those concerns.

First and foremost, we want everyone to know that we have zero interest in trying to extend your playtime by making you grind for experience. That includes grinding quests, monsters, dungeons, or anything else. If people aren't having a good time, we know they won’t stick around, so artificially inflating time spent playing is a self-defeating practice we aren't interested in. Our number one priority is fun (this is a game, after all!) and promoting a diverse array of activity options that allow you to pursue experience gains however you like.

While our intended goal is for it to take the average person 12-15 hours to gain a Veteran Rank, our QA team regularly gains Veteran Ranks on live in 8-10 hours or less. We've also witnessed you, our players, beating that time quite often, too. So, the 12-15 hour estimate is a baseline standard—mileage may vary (and it often does.)

We’re trying to be fairly open with our numbers by communicating our target leveling times, but in the interest of more clarity here are a few more details:

• We add experience multipliers to quests, usually depending on the time taken and relative difficulty. Those experience multipliers look like this:
  • Very Easy = .1
  • Easy = .75
  • Standard = 1
  • Hard = 1.5
  • Very Hard = 2.25
• Point of Interest completion also has these modifiers applied, but most are set to “Standard.”
• Dungeon quest completion has an experience modifier of “Very Hard.”
• We do clamp experience so a single event can’t get you more than 10 percent of your current level.

Our current course of action is to fix the existing bugs, and then analyze before adjusting experience to be even more generous. Again, our goal is not to force a grind, we just don’t want to over-compensate. Thank you all for continuing to share your feedback and concerns on this issue.

You have my full support to limit the grinding in the game, so keep going Boys and Girls and make ESO a wonderful experience everywhere and not just in Craglorns grind Groups

If we quest, craft or just explore then this is also something that people find fun (the majority at least) and right now you are moving into the right direction to support these players in future. Just imagine how fun it would be if it would be really our choice what we do so that a person who likes to explore and quest levels equally as a grinder.

The goal is to limit xp for grinders while not increasing it for the questers as we all know that out leveling content is already a big issue so please don't raise our xp but lower theirs.

About the xp bug well, I am sure you will manage and fix that sooner or later but please don't increase the quest xp because of the bug or the grinders who now level slower and complain, out leveling content is no fun for us - a grinder cant out level but we can, please keep this in mind Jess

Just a reminder tagging on the end here, that content is not being over-levelled in the Veteran Ranks. Rather, completing everything in one zone leaves you under-levelled for the next zone, with no more content to put you over the top. 1-50 quest XP doesn't need to be increased, because that does indeed result in out-levelling the content. 50+ quest XP though is a different story.

Sorry, but you'll just have to get used to it because they don't care.

The VE, E, N, H and VH, are based on Colors of the Quest of how higher the level is above yours? Well, this is an idea, others can disagree, it's fine.

Leveling 3 to 50. (Pretyy much colors will be green, Yellow at Levels 40+)


Burgandy = Impossible - 31+ Levels above = 3
Red = Very Hard - 20 to 28 Levels above = 2
Orange = Hard - 12 to 17 Levels above = 1.5
Yellow = Nornal - 4 to 8 Levels above = 0.5
Green = Easy - 1 to 3 Levels above = 0
Grey Same as the Level and above it = 0