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State of Rite of Passage (healers perspective)
Grasshopper
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The purpose of this thread is to inform people about the usage of Remembrance in its current state. This problem effects all roles because how vital a good healer is to any group. Our community is fantastic (mod/dev team included). The guilds involved in this post and me would like to hear your opinions on this c:
Rite of Passage is a templar ultimate skill. The skill is a low ultimate cost AOE that helps Templar healers deal with tough sitations like healer strain. Healer strain is when your team takes way to much damage over a small durations, this drains your supportive roles magicka pools. Often time parties whipe because their healers cannot take a moment to recover magicka pools.
Sounds FANTASTIC at first, but after testing in large guild group session we have come to the conclusion that this skill has fallen off in how useful it is because of two main problems.
The first of which is that Rite of Passage(and morphs) seems to only target four people RANDOMLY, not lowest, at a time, we un-sure if this is intended or unintended. When it comes to group dungeons this is not much of a problem, but if you are running 12+ groups in pvp or trails you will notice that the skill becomes unhelpful in large groups because it only heals 4 at a time. Even if you duo healers in Trails you can only heal 8 people per tick, or in a large scale pvp group with three healers 12. This is a massive setback and even aoe spells like impulse hit 6 people.
The Second is the morphs themselves feel out of place. For this lets take a look at what each skill does for you.
Rite of Passage's Morphs
Remembrance (adds mitigation)
Practiced Incantation (adds duration)
As you see Remembrance will out trump Practiced Incantation because it heals better and can pull you out of tough situations. Even if one has a longer duration the mitigation breaks the point of even choosing the morph. This means that the skill morph does not give the user any sort of choice. Here is an example of what it should look like.
Rapid regen (has faster heal and more ticks)
Mutagen (burst of health at low hp)
The design of these morphs is beautiful it forces you to make a choice depending on what you are doing. For strait healing and ultimate gain rapid regen wins out and for fighter engages mutagen trumps rapid regen! Every morph should give you a tough choice, but in the case of rite of passage it is not true.
A plea to the developers/moderators and community.
The aspects of the skill that probably hurts the most is that it only targets 4 people and the duration of it makes it fail in comparison to nova impact in the game. For a skill that is supposed to help large amount of users it kinda needs some attention.
Any feedback from the community on this would be amazing. Healing skills are probably the hardest ability set is any game to balance, thus your feedback in important, that means users, developers and moderators alike.
Hardmode/pvp healer,
-Grasshopper
Edited by Grasshopper on 16 October 2014 22:51 Rite of Passage is a templar ultimate skill. The skill is a low ultimate cost AOE that helps Templar healers deal with tough sitations like healer strain. Healer strain is when your team takes way to much damage over a small durations, this drains your supportive roles magicka pools. Often time parties whipe because their healers cannot take a moment to recover magicka pools.
Sounds FANTASTIC at first, but after testing in large guild group session we have come to the conclusion that this skill has fallen off in how useful it is because of two main problems.
The first of which is that Rite of Passage(and morphs) seems to only target four people RANDOMLY, not lowest, at a time, we un-sure if this is intended or unintended. When it comes to group dungeons this is not much of a problem, but if you are running 12+ groups in pvp or trails you will notice that the skill becomes unhelpful in large groups because it only heals 4 at a time. Even if you duo healers in Trails you can only heal 8 people per tick, or in a large scale pvp group with three healers 12. This is a massive setback and even aoe spells like impulse hit 6 people.
The Second is the morphs themselves feel out of place. For this lets take a look at what each skill does for you.
Rite of Passage's Morphs
Remembrance (adds mitigation)
- Pull allies out of tough situations and heals them up
- Mitigates large scale damage better
Practiced Incantation (adds duration)
- More overall heal
- Longer duration
As you see Remembrance will out trump Practiced Incantation because it heals better and can pull you out of tough situations. Even if one has a longer duration the mitigation breaks the point of even choosing the morph. This means that the skill morph does not give the user any sort of choice. Here is an example of what it should look like.
Rapid regen (has faster heal and more ticks)
- More overall heal
- Faster healing
- Better ultimate gain
- Generally better for healing
Mutagen (burst of health at low hp)
- Basically a health buff
- Drop and forgot about it
- Anti-execution skill
- Generally better for fighting
The design of these morphs is beautiful it forces you to make a choice depending on what you are doing. For strait healing and ultimate gain rapid regen wins out and for fighter engages mutagen trumps rapid regen! Every morph should give you a tough choice, but in the case of rite of passage it is not true.
A plea to the developers/moderators and community.
The aspects of the skill that probably hurts the most is that it only targets 4 people and the duration of it makes it fail in comparison to nova impact in the game. For a skill that is supposed to help large amount of users it kinda needs some attention.
Any feedback from the community on this would be amazing. Healing skills are probably the hardest ability set is any game to balance, thus your feedback in important, that means users, developers and moderators alike.
Hardmode/pvp healer,
-Grasshopper
Bug and Theorycrafter since beta.
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Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭Target cap should be 12. Practiced Incantantion sucks.
I agree entirely. Good observations.
The only issue you raise that I don't necessarily agree with is regarding Rapid Regen vs. Mutagen. For a Templar, I feel like this decision is made automatically:
Rapid Regen ticks longer and reliably, which works amazingly well with people sitting in your Ritual of Purification to provide strong baseline healing, which allows for heavy usage of resto staff attacks and heavy usage of Honor the Dead or Breath of Life to actually heal with.
I think Mutagen is greatly overplayed for Templars simply because Rapid Regen rolling on your party is so powerful in conjunction with your other tools.1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why does Practiced Incantation suck @Pmarsico9 ? I use that morph, because it gives me a longer and higher heal, and because the mitigation is only for those 4 seconds. For the mitigation to be of use, your party needs to be attacked or take damage. I find PI the more usefull and reliable morph.
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Grasshopper✭✭✭Why does Practiced Incantation suck @Pmarsico9 ? I use that morph, because it gives me a longer and higher heal, and because the mitigation is only for those 4 seconds. For the mitigation to be of use, your party needs to be attacked or take damage. I find PI the more usefull and reliable morph.
Ok for me to show you lets assume a couple things, so lets say (using actual ratios).
Remembrance has 8 ticks which heals for 16 each time over 4 seconds (128 effective healing + 20% damage taken less)
vs
Practiced Incantation which has 19 heal for 12 ticks over 6 seconds (228 overall healing)
Now lets take into account the other part of remembrance.
"While active, allies take 20% less damage"
Now lets apply this to a situation. Lets say 4 of my allies take 200 damage ( 800 across all allies). Assuming remembrance was up i have stopped with my reduction 160 damage. If you remember its base heal was 128 now we add on the second effects blocked damage of 160 for 288 total damage healed/prevented.
Keep in mind also that remembrance effects "allies" in the circle so if there is more than 5 people in that circle it will help them also c:
Saying that it pulls you out of tough situation with the mitigation and a tough enemy.
Too boring didn't read:Remembrance stops more damage with the 20% reductions making better even if it did not heal as much.Edited by Grasshopper on 16 October 2014 22:36Bug and Theorycrafter since beta.1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
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Except, it loses its use and potential when not everyone is being attacked/taking damage at that moment. If I see lots of low health bars, I pop practiced incatation and see them go up fast. Not all of them are being attacked, so that's why I have found practiced incatation to be of more use, in more situations.Grasshopper wrote: »Why does Practiced Incantation suck @Pmarsico9 ? I use that morph, because it gives me a longer and higher heal, and because the mitigation is only for those 4 seconds. For the mitigation to be of use, your party needs to be attacked or take damage. I find PI the more usefull and reliable morph.
Ok for me to show you lets assume a couple things, so lets say (using actual ratios).
Remembrance has 8 ticks which heals for 16 each time over 4 seconds (128 effective healing + 20% damage taken less)
vs
Practiced Incantation which has 19 heal for 12 ticks over 6 seconds (228 overall healing)
Now lets take into account the other part of remembrance.
"While active, allies take 20% less damage"
Now lets apply this to a situation. Lets say 4 of my allies take 200 damage ( 800 across all allies). Assuming remembrance was up i have stopped with my reduction 160 damage. If you remember its base heal was 128 now we add on the second effects blocked damage of 160 for 288 total damage healed/prevented.
Keep in mind also that remembrance effects "allies" in the circle so if there is more than 5 people in that circle it will help them also c:
Saying that it pulls you out of tough situation with the mitigation and a tough enemy.
Too boring didn't read:Remembrance stops more damage with the 20% reductions making better even if it did not heal as much.
The situation where remembrance would be more usefull is during continuous AoE barrage from a boss/raidgroup. There, everyone takes damage and the 20% reduction is being utilized. Regular low health groupmembers that need to be saved? Practiced incantation is the way to go.
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Grasshopper✭✭✭Except, it loses its use and potential when not everyone is being attacked/taking damage at that moment. If I see lots of low health bars, I pop practiced incatation and see them go up fast. Not all of them are being attacked, so that's why I have found practiced incatation to be of more use, in more situations.
The situation where remembrance would be more usefull is during continuous AoE barrage from a boss/raidgroup. There, everyone takes damage and the 20% reduction is being utilized. Regular low health groupmembers that need to be saved? Practiced incantation is the way to go.
Fair enough I will give you that point and thanks for the feedback (drops an insightful upvote).
Still even now the points remains that- Targets are random, and do not target lowest health
- Only has 4 targets.
This ability need some love from the community and the developer doctor.Bug and Theorycrafter since beta.2 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
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Np. I agree with you that the random target + 4 maximum nonsense needs to be fixed. It should affect as much people as any other AoE and use the smart healing principle, i.e. giving preference to lower health allies.Grasshopper wrote: »Except, it loses its use and potential when not everyone is being attacked/taking damage at that moment. If I see lots of low health bars, I pop practiced incatation and see them go up fast. Not all of them are being attacked, so that's why I have found practiced incatation to be of more use, in more situations.
The situation where remembrance would be more usefull is during continuous AoE barrage from a boss/raidgroup. There, everyone takes damage and the 20% reduction is being utilized. Regular low health groupmembers that need to be saved? Practiced incantation is the way to go.
Fair enough I will give you that point and thanks for the feedback (drops an insightful upvote).
Still even now the points remains that- Targets are random, and do not target lowest health
- Only has 4 targets.
This ability need some love from the community and the developer doctor.
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eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is why I use Barrier as my healing ulti in raids. Rite of Passage not only suffer from a limited radius and roots you, it's also not healing enough people. I didn't know it was down to 4, but I've noticed how very few where getting healed up in urgent moments.
It also seems the focused healing passive isn't being applied while I'm channelling Rite of Passage. Than again, I'm so used to broken templar passives and skills not scaling in value as they level, I don't even care any more.
Than there's my Replenishing Barrier, it shields 20 people and can be cast on the go while I'm free to spam other heals. Not a hard choice that one.
Only decent Templar ulti is Nova really, to bad it costs 288 ulti.1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
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Yea barrier is pretty damn good. But you underestimate the empowering sweep morph, alot. You can get up to 39% damage reduction in mob packs. Paired with deep slash you can make that 54%. And simce its so cheap you can also use it on a boss together with deep slash for a consistent 30% dr!This is why I use Barrier as my healing ulti in raids. Rite of Passage not only suffer from a limited radius and roots you, it's also not healing enough people. I didn't know it was down to 4, but I've noticed how very few where getting healed up in urgent moments.
It also seems the focused healing passive isn't being applied while I'm channelling Rite of Passage. Than again, I'm so used to broken templar passives and skills not scaling in value as they level, I don't even care any more.
Than there's my Replenishing Barrier, it shields 20 people and can be cast on the go while I'm free to spam other heals. Not a hard choice that one.
Only decent Templar ulti is Nova really, to bad it costs 288 ulti.
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Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭Why does Practiced Incantation suck @Pmarsico9 ? I use that morph, because it gives me a longer and higher heal, and because the mitigation is only for those 4 seconds. For the mitigation to be of use, your party needs to be attacked or take damage. I find PI the more usefull and reliable morph.
Simply put:
There is never a point in time where I don't have Rapid Regen and Ritual of Purification ticking away on everybody. So it turns a lot of that HPS into OH, which is less valuable than a true Damage Reduction.
If you are a chain caster of Lingering Ritual (which should easily be a magicka-cost-neutral spell based on how you gear) that also factors in, provided your group is within range. This combination or Grand Healing Stacking all add up to turn additional healing from Practiced Incantation into having no value at all. The 20% damage reduction works to amplify healing during its duration since the incoming damage is lowered significantly.
In fact, Nova is a better Ult than Practiced Incantation, provided you don't need the additional healing provided by the actual healing Ultimate. Major incoming damage reductions, like Negate, Barrier, Nova, and Remembrance are in limited supply, as well.
There's something to be said for that.1