NB tank help, suggestions

Nihili · September 2014

I've built up a stealth Nightblade, and I'm woking on a tanky DK, but in all honesty I'm much fascinated by a "Nightblade tank". I've seen videos of people pulling it off, but I wanted to do my own thing. For one, I wanted to make it a two-hander instead of the "tank bread and butter" sword and board. This is what I've got at the moment:

http://esohead.com/calculator/skills#mcmXxvM0VaD0mii8rrX18wAvw8wAv28IPU48GFla8Ir3D8dauD8If0n8IfVM8Irxv8hesE8IPwB8L7JLkLu6cdoQr6MdoQC6MdoQF6MdoQJ6MdoQK8T7JrRMA6MrqAi6MrqAI6MrqAD6MrqAZ6crqLw8x7HLsfd6rsfr6MwGN16MwGAR6MwGAs6MwGAa6MwGAb8v7HLanS6Mhy3D6Mhx0n6Mhx0y6Mhx0l6Mhx0B8C7Drzqa6rzqq6MGFWc6MGFWi6MGFWA6MGFWn8D7Jrzdc6rzdm6LzdR6Lzds6rbMz6MIsaM6MIrv36MIrEf6MIrEh8F7DrzrJ6LzrO6Lbut6MIPNU6MIPAh6MIPAT6MIPAv8zk7pzvKVv6cvKVB6cvKVD6cvKVO8zf7zzNbo8zu7zzHfYE6zHfZd8zG7zzHQ3F8zI7zzJIoX6zJIkL8zN7zzJZcY8zA7zzKpUN8zL7zzK4EX

Any tips? Anything I need to drop because it will be absolutely useless?

Kego · September 2014

How do you want to tank bosses without a Taunt Skill?
Your AOE Build suffers of AE CC like Vulcanic Rune and you didn`t slot the best AOE Skill of Nightblades with SAP Essence.

Overall I would still preffer 1H Schild cause you get Access to another Defence Enchantment as well as a 4th Set Bonus out of 5 + 4 Sets and a lot of nice passives that helps you tank.

What is your goal with the Resto Staff Bar? It is usefull for, well nothing. No DMG, no DMG Mitigation and totally poor heal.

Saet · September 2014

I use 2h for my nb tank build also but Kego is right that you definitely want Sap Essence. I dont personally use volcanic rune on mine but it would work well. I use mark target to get a nice heal when needed. I just mark one before charging in and leave that mob on low health for an easy kill when health is low. Also Killers Blade helps with some extra heals as well.
This build generates ultimate very quickly.
I've been playing around with the Shadows set which gives a 440 heal at v1 anytime you use an ultimate. With either morph of our 50pt death stroke ultimate this is a constant big heal.

PBpsy · September 2014

If this is a PVP tanky build it could work pretty well although I would get an extra heal and purge.
If you go for dungeon it doesn't look that great.
-1-You have no taunt for boss fights which in this game means that you are not a tank but a low dps character. The best option in my opinion is Inner fire since it is ranged, cheap and magicka based so you don't waste your stamina on it.
-2-Sap Essence- Best skill we have for tanking. It heals and does damage and if you charge in the mobs first it can pull many of them towards you not quite an aoe taunt but somewhat effective.I also gives a lot of ultimate back with Transfer and if you have decent Spell crit even more.
-3-Swallow soul or Funnel health- This is kind of a must for a tank. Swallow soul is 10% more healing on you and it double or triples you health regen if you keep it up which is amazing. I am using a high spell crit tank build so I chose Funnel health for more ultimate to get my Veil of Blades up consistently
-4-A bit to many not very useful stamina skills. You want to block your taunted bosses and Brawler and Stampede don't do much to you except eat stamina. Even if this was a PVP build why have 2 gap closers on the same bar?
-5-Having a secondary Resto is great for NB tanking. I would take out Mass Hysteria since in pve you want them to come to you I would put Impale because having a cheap execute is awesome for tanks. I don't think Refreshing path is that great either and I would take another heal or short buff. Dark Shades and Quick Siphon are great to have.

Nihili · September 2014

It isn't for dungeons, it's for PvP (sorry I should have mentioned that

) So taunting bosses isn't a big deal for me… that said I WILL spend the extra points into the skills you mentioned, so that when the mood for dungeoning takes me I can switch :P
An explanation of my choices:
@Kego
-The whole class lacks in AOE cc, but I tried incorporating that with the Lotus Fan, Brawler, and my two ultimates. This build has good ultimate gain, so I'm hoping to use those ultimates frequently and drop AOE through that.
- I included the restoration staff because I want to have the choice to possibly swap some things out with Mutagen, or Healing springs. I wasn't sure if there are any other obvious choices for self-healing, but you might be able to suggest something? I find quick siphon useful and personally I want to stay away from sword and board because I already have two other characters relying on it.
@Saet
-Sap essence was something I wanted to include, but avoided because I've never seen it used (or rather, never knew how it was used) o.o I'll spend some points there and play around with it. Might be I can replace something less useful with that once I've gotten a feeling for how everything works
-I haven't look at sets yet at all yet

But that shadows set sounds useful, so I'll take a look at that as well! Is there anything else good out there?
@PBpsy
-I spoke about your first two points above. As for number three, I did spend points there in the link I gave you, also with the intent of playing around with it if I can find something less useful to replace it with
-Your fourth point actually surprised me, because I never realized I had two gap closers until you pointed that out

But that said, the two gap closers sort of serves different purposes. Stampede is a gap closer I'd open with on a single target, whereas Lotus Fan is something I'd use as a gap-closing-opener if I needed to take on a group. I find the odd stamina skills useful when you've run out of magicka, would you still say I should ditch them?
- I'll take your 5th point on board, especially because I was unsure of Dark Shades, and I haven't yet tried out refreshing path but I thought it would be a useful self-heal.

Thank you for the tips everyone!

PBpsy · September 2014

Nihili wrote: »

@PBpsy
-I spoke about your first two points above. As for number three, I did spend points there in the link I gave you, also with the intent of playing around with it if I can find something less useful to replace it with
-Your fourth point actually surprised me, because I never realized I had two gap closers until you pointed that out But that said, the two gap closers sort of serves different purposes. Stampede is a gap closer I'd open with on a single target, whereas Lotus Fan is something I'd use as a gap-closing-opener if I needed to take on a group. I find the odd stamina skills useful when you've run out of magicka, would you still say I should ditch them?
- I'll take your 5th point on board, especially because I was unsure of Dark Shades, and I haven't yet tried out refreshing path but I thought it would be a useful self-heal.
Thank you for the tips everyone!

My original response was mostly for dungeon tanking. For PvP most doesn't apply. I have tried tankish pvp NB and I have mostly failed but for pvp the build is not always as important as the player so you may get it to work or at least have some fun trying to do it. I would be curious to see how you mange.

Some of the problems we have is that PVP tankiness means one can block all day and have spammable instant heal and shield.Armor and spell resistance are not very important . We do not have either Spam heals or good shields so we can't really do anything like a DK or templar when it comes to fighting groups . Sap essence which is our main survivability tool and only instant heal is amazing in pve just doesn't cut it in pvp.

Now for my opinion on the original build for pvp.

-1- The Stampede + Lotus fan deal. They are gap closers and may be better for different situation but it means that for the actual battle you only have Brawler as a Damage dealing attack and it is a pretty low damage one. Also lotus fan looks better on paper due to its abysmal short radius. Stampede is better but what I have seen is that it doesn't actually do 3x damage as a crit opener so I never seen it do as much as Ambush as an opener.The best combo I have actually found for 2H Handed is Ambush +Reverse Slash+Ambush+Impale. If you get that from stealth it is insane.

-2-Mass Hysteria is one of or best skill for pvp so as opposed to my initial remark it is recommended.
-3-Refreshing path is nice if you are realty magicka heavy in light. I use it as an escape. Healing Ward(resto buble) +Refreshing Path+10XDark Cloak and hide. I do not know how that works for someone not doing the full light/seducer/warlock combo though

. The HOT is kind of crappy if you intend to use it for the healing.I would recommend Rapid regeneration as a self HOT. If you can get to keep it on and also have swallow soul up you get a pretty good HOT.
- 4-The rest looks pretty good I am not sure how will you deal with resource since you have very little cost reduction from armor I think this build would probably work better with 5 medium/2 light.

Stx · September 2014

For tanky NB pvp you want sword and shield. Two hand really doesn't offer anything at all for this style of play.

Swallow soul is good for self healing and a ranged attack. Veiled strike is good for damage, main source of damage I would say. The shield charge is good for cc and gap closing, plus the little bubble it gives you is nice. Impale is good for finishing people off.

On your second bar I would use resto staff to keep yourself sustained. I would use rapid regen, healing ward, mass hysteria for fearing block spammers, and shades for draining blockers stamina. I keep siphoning attacks on both bars btw, its amazing for sustain.

I do a lot of 1v2's with this build, even though Im mediocre at pvp.

You want to cap spell damage, health, and get as much magicka as you can. 7/7 Impenetrable, I use infused on the shield.

Aedh · September 2014

I agree with @PBpsy‌ , your build lacks damages for PvP. The NB doesn't have a lot of tools to soak up big amounts of incoming damage, so you will want to pack some punch.

My take on your 2H bar :
- You don't need two gap closers. Ditch one of them, which one is up to you. Lotus Fan doesn't do a lot of damages, and has a small cast time, which can be inconvenient. I would keep Stampede.
- Slot an execute skill instead of the second gap closer. Impale is great because of its 15m range. If you want a stamina dump, Reverse Slash will work as well.
- Slot the Assassination ultimate (cheap, hits hard, refills very quickly) instead of Veil, and put Veil on your resto staff bar. You can use it in "oh sh*t" moments, to heal up while standing in it.
- You might want to consider slotting Veiled Strike (either morph, it's up to you) instead of Brawler, to have a spamable damage dealing skill.

Resto staff bar :
- Refreshing Path's heal is really crappy. If you wanted it just for the heal, you can ditch it and slot Rapid Regeneration instead.
If you want it for the speed buff : it will be pretty useless in a fight (you will be off the path all the time), but can work as an escape tool. Don't expect much if you don't combine it with Dark Cloak though.
- What makes Harness Magicka actually good, is the fact you can stack it with another shield to "protect" the magicka gain effect. On its own, it won't absorb a lot of damages, and you would probably get as much magicka back with Siphoning Attacks.
You might want to use Healing Ward instead (using Healing Ward, then cloaking to get the heal effect at the end is very useful) or slotting Siphoning Attacks on your second bar as well.

Nihili · September 2014

Thank you for all the replies! I figure I'll just pick up all these skills and then work with them to see which works best and which doesn't. Some of them I've never used so I feel like I should first play with it a bit before I can deliver any comments of "I think that suggestion is bad or good"

That said, I'm confused why you would have Reverse slash and Impale on the same bar @PBpsy in point 1? Aren't both of those execution moves?
-And as a general question to the peeps in this thread, a lot of you are saying Impale instead of Killers blade, but my take was that the health regen of Killers Blade would be better?
-I was thinking of including Funnel Health, but Swallow Soul seems to be the better option. Will try update.
-I'm struggling to decide whether I should keep Refreshing path, but I'll test it in-game and decide.
-Healing ward + Swallow Soul + Rapid Regeneration sounds like the best HOT available to me
- Losing Lotus fan for Stampede makes the build lack AOE CC. My best bet in that case would be my ultimate then, which is why I'm careful to replace Soul Tether with Soul Harvest. Yay or nay?

This is the new build I came up with listening to your suggestions:

http://esohead.com/calculator/skills#mcmXxvM0VaD0mii8rrX18IPU48wAv28wABh8GFts8Ir3D8dauD8heqM8IfVM8Irxv8hesE8IPwB8L7JLkLu6cdoQr6MdoQC6MdoQF6MdoQJ6MdoQK8T7JrRMA6MrqAi6MrqAI6MrqAD6MrqAZ6crqLw8x7HLsfd6rsfr6rsfw6MwGN16MwGAR6MwGAs6MwGAa6MwGAb8v7HLanS6ranW6LanX6Mhy3D6Mhx0n6Mhx0y6Mhx0l6Mhx0B8C7DLzqa6rzqq6Lzqu6MGFWc6MGFWi6MGFWA6MGFWn8D7Jrzdc6rzdm6LzdR6Lzds6rbMz6MIsaM6MIrv36MIrEf6MIrEh8F7DLzrJ6LzrO6Lbut6MIPNU6MIPAh6MIPAT6MIPAv8zk7pzvKVv6cvKVB6cvKVD6cvKVO8zf7zzNbo8zu7zzHfYE6zHfZd8zG7zzHQ3F8zI7zzJIoX6zJIkL8zN7zzJZcY8zA7zzKpUN8zL7zzK4EX

Bar 1
-Immovable Brute: Probably a must-have, need I comment?
- Siphoning Strikes: Only stamina management skill I have other than potions + extra magicka regen is great. This bar is more stamina based than bar 2 so I'm keeping this.
- Stampede: Gap closer, considering replacing with Lotus Fan for AOE, but I'll have to try it out. I ditched brawler as well, so there is really no AOE other than ultimate.
- Reverse slash: Kind of weird having both Impale and Reverse slash on the same bar for me, but this will probably be my spammable damage doer.
- Impale: the finisher.
Comments: I'm quite worried about the lack of AOE, but I suppose Brawler's damage output is kind of low and the damage shield I gain from it is unnecessary with Immovable Brute there. Lotus fan I still think would be good, but I've excluded it. Can it stack regen from Siphoning strikes if it hits more than one target? If it can, it does CC, AOE, and a decent regen. I'm also trying to figure out if I can put Swallow Soul in here...

Bar 2
-Harness Magicka: this bar is more magicka reliant than the previous one, so I figured this was necessary.
-Healing ward: Included under recommendation from @Aedh (but actually looking at it I think it could be useful). Would stack with Harness Magicka, giving HOT and MOT. Pretty cool.
-Mass hysteria: AOE status-effect I guess. Sounds pretty useful.
-Dark Shades: Damage output/distraction. I find this whole updated build lacking in damage doers, and though this won't do much damage either I think it would be good assist against shield users.
-Quick siphon: More health. Considering swapping for Swallow Soul so I can get damage in there. Yay or nay?
Comments: Again, I don't know what I can use to pack a punch. The updated build is going into waters I'm not familiar with, so I'd love some more opinions on whether I've actually improved on what I had before or not.

Just want to say thanks a dozen for all the insightful replies!

PBpsy · September 2014

Nihili wrote: »

That said, I'm confused why you would have Reverse slash and Impale on the same bar @PBpsy in point 1? Aren't both of those execution moves?
-And as a general question to the peeps in this thread, a lot of you are saying Impale instead of Killers blade, but my take was that the health regen of Killers Blade would be better?

Sorry . I mixed up the name since I do not use 2H on my primary build. I meant to say Uppercut-Wrecking Blow. It has a really good synergy with Ambush from stealth if you catch somebody alone. Ambush stuns and gives you time to fire Uppercut with 36% more damage then normal,Wrecking Blow has a Knock down which can be taken advantage even further.

The Killers Blade/Impale is more a matter of taste. The Killer's Blade has some healing but impale is much more easy to use and considering how easy some classes can heal from low health the more obvious choice. It is popular since in vet dungeons there is no contest that impale is just better.

For the build I would suggest having Wrecking Blow and/or Veiled Strike on some slot and that's about it.

Kego · September 2014

PBpsy wrote: »

The Killers Blade/Impale is more a matter of taste. The Killer's Blade has some healing but impale is much more easy to use and considering how easy some classes can heal from low health the more obvious choice. It is popular since in vet dungeons there is no contest that impale is just better.

For the build I would suggest having Wrecking Blow and/or Veiled Strike on some slot and that's about it.

Problem that I see with this build is, that it is extremly divided between Stamina and Magicka. Means you are not good at both of it. If it comes to the Armor Sets and Weapons, one of them will suffer.

If he goes maximum Magicka and SpellDMG, he can use his Stamina completly for blocking and Immovable Force.

Bar 1
- Immovable Brute - Stamina Skill
- Siphoning Strikes: Stamina & Magicka Regen, Toggle Skill
- Ambush: Magicka Skill and 36% more DMG to follow up attack.
- Impale: Magicka Skill Finisher
- Conceiled Weapon: Magicka Skill Anytimer DMG

Bar 2
-Harness Magicka: Magicka Skill
-Healing ward: Magicka Skill
-Mass hysteria: Magicka Skill
-Dark Shades: Magicka Skill (I don't like Shades and they are useless in PvP with enemies that are mobile, cause than they deal no dmg at all.)
-Quick siphon: Magicka Skill

At all, I see there still an issue with survival, cause Harness Magicka and Healing Ward are really expensive in their costs.

Harness Magicka only gives a DMG Shield around 350. The 50% reduction procc only works against magicka spells. If a Melee Charakter is your enemy he only needs 1 critical Light attack to destroy the Shield. Base Costs: ~476 Magicka.

Healing ward grants a DMG shield around 300. The Shield shines if you drop low on health, cause it gets stronger, the lower your HP gets. Base Costs: 476 Magicka.

Problem: You can shield yourself, but you have no sufficent healing, to bring your HP back to 100%. Healing Ward gives you ~200 HP heal, the after efffect heal won't get to you, if you are attacked. Quick Siphons heals you for ~50HP for each attack. Way less than light attacks from any other character dealed to you.

In my opinion the Nightblade Class is designed for Burst DMG out of stealth. The only Surivival Build that I have seen work with Nightblade is the Bloodpriest Specc. Where you focus on 2x Resto Staff with Funnel Health + Dots and Healing to outlast your enemy or Ambush/Veiled Strike with healings if you like the Battlemage style more than the caster.

Sestar · September 2014

Hi,

I have been goofing around with a Nightblade in the Rookie Campaign for a couple of weeks, now at level 31.

Initially I did have a 2H/Resto combination, and using the Resto skills as group healer. It works quite well: purge, agony for 12s stun, funnel, grand healing, rapid regen, siphon ultimate... But when switching between damage role (I like close combat) and healing role the be two bars are too different, and get me dizzy. lol.

So I tried 2H/1H. A little problem I still have is, that I also became vampire. That means, I jump of a keep wall, break both legs, and run to battle, and miles later I still do not regenerate health. But in combat getting health is not that bad.

Most important for me is, that when switching weapons, things do not change too much, to keep action-management easy!!

PVP semi-tankish approach

Stats: all health

2H
- dark cloak
- concealed weapon
- impale
- drain essence (vamp life drain/stun)
- stampede
- ultimate: siphon with aoe stun

1H
- dark cloak
- concealed weapon -> change
- funnel health
- soul splitting trap (need to fill grand gems) -> change
- piercing strike
- ultimate: veil of something with heal synergy

For diversing my 1H-Skill-bar I need to improve some skills, and get a few more skillpoints. Though right now I quite like the dual ranged attack with Funnel + Soul Trap, ^^

Ultimates have been picked for enhancing passives with extra health/magicka and aoe effects when capturing flags in pvp.

Options:
- mass hysteria
- agony
- absorbing shield defense skill

I use 2H for offensive melee, and 1H for ranged attacks and for pretendig I'd be tanked; or pierce npc guads, then turtle up.

Cheers,
Sestar

PBpsy · September 2014

Kego wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

The Killers Blade/Impale is more a matter of taste. The Killer's Blade has some healing but impale is much more easy to use and considering how easy some classes can heal from low health the more obvious choice. It is popular since in vet dungeons there is no contest that impale is just better.

For the build I would suggest having Wrecking Blow and/or Veiled Strike on some slot and that's about it.

Problem that I see with this build is, that it is extremly divided between Stamina and Magicka. Means you are not good at both of it. If it comes to the Armor Sets and Weapons, one of them will suffer.

If he goes maximum Magicka and SpellDMG, he can use his Stamina completly for blocking and Immovable Force.

Yes you are right this would be a hybrid build. I was giving suggestions while still maintaining the overall idea of 5H/2L and 2H/Resto in mind. I have played around with similar build only with 5 medium 2light. I was getting around 2200 Magicka. 2500 Health/2000 stamina after food. For ganking it was pretty fun and I was getting much better damage from Ambush +Wreking blow then I get from Ambush +Surprise attack. Also Wreaking blow can be a really deadly opener if you manage to pull it of.

I am actually using something similar to the build you suggested but with full light and 2xresto. Although I have a bit more group healing/support ability and use Funnel health for most damage and Ambush/Surprise attack for reflecting DKs and assists. It is the most fun combination I think for NBs.
http://esohead.com/calculator/skills#mcmzvvk9cW9M8IPq48GFlT8IryJ8IfVM8rrYR8IPwB8dauD8IrtP8heqM8heaf8lLy18DohZ8L7NLkLu8T7NLRMA8v7HLanX6ranW6Mhx0B6Mhy3D6Mhx0n6Mhx0l6Mhx0y8C7DLzqq6MGFWn6MGFWA6MGFWi6MGFWc8D7DrbMz6rzdM6Lzdm6MIrEh6MIrv36MIsaM6MIrEf8F7DrzrJ6MIPAh6MIPAv6MIPAT6MIPNU6LzrO8zk7zzvKVv8za7mmGF46dGH08zf7ozNbo6rNbk8zu7zzHfYE6zHfZd8zG7zzHQ3F8zI7zzJIoX6zJIkL8zN7zzJZcY8zA7zzKpUN8zL7zzK4EX