MItigation mechanics of absorb shields

Troponin · August 2014

I am trying to figure this one out. It appears as though having an absorb shield up and blocking at the same time doesn't stack. If you have an absorb shield up, you will take the damage as though you're only using an absorb shield. In some cases, I am noticing I end up taking more damage than if I just blocked.

Is this intended, or is this a bug? Seems silly that if we're blocking with an absorb shield up, then it should at least consider mitigating the damage of whichever is better, no?

madangrypally · August 2014

It should be intended. Think of it like this:

A damage shield is a magical shield that is projected at a small radius from the character. All damage mitigation in the form of Armor, Spell Resistance, blocking, and other forms of mitigation do not apply because they are character based. Since a damage shield is not on the character but hovers near the character they suffer 100% of the damage caused.

IE: A player has 35% damage mitigation and gets hit by a 1,000 fire ball. They will suffer 650 damage as 35% of the damage was mitigated. A player now obtains a 1100 damage shield and still has 35% damage mitigation and gets hit by a 1,000 fire ball. The damage shield will take the full 1,000 damage and be reduced to 100 but the player suffers no damage.

Blocking will also not reduce the damage the damage shield absorbs as the damage is applied to the damage shield first.

This is the way it has always worked and doubt it will change. It is intended.

Maverick827 · August 2014

This is why most damage shields suck. Barrier is the only good one because the values are just so high. Throwing up a 400-point damage shield is useless in PvE and PvP.

Troponin · August 2014

madangrypally wrote: »

Blocking will also not reduce the damage the damage shield absorbs as the damage is applied to the damage shield first.

This is the way it has always worked and doubt it will change. It is intended.

Even if the absorb shield is applied first, it does not appear as though blocking is applied at all. That's what I am referring to. Should the blocking not be applied at all if an absorb shield is up?

madangrypally · August 2014

Troponin wrote: »

Even if the absorb shield is applied first, it does not appear as though blocking is applied at all. That's what I am referring to. Should the blocking not be applied at all if an absorb shield is up?

Blocking is not applied at all because the damage never actually reaches the character. It is absorbed by a damage shield first.

If the damage was greater then the damage shield then the left over damage would then be mitigated and blocking will take effect.

Example:
A player hits me for 1,000 Damage.
I have a 500 damage shield.
The damage shield suffers 500 damage and is no gone.
The left over damage is 500.
The below I am unsure the exact order it goes in, but its a good base line.
I have 20% damage mitigation.
Damage done to character is 400.
I am blocking with 75% block mitigation.
I then take 100 damage total.

The block cost in stamina is also the same regardless of the damage blocked. A player can block a 10 damage attack or a 1,000 damage attack and it will still cost the same amount of stamina.

Maulkin · August 2014

madangrypally wrote: »

Troponin wrote: »

Even if the absorb shield is applied first, it does not appear as though blocking is applied at all. That's what I am referring to. Should the blocking not be applied at all if an absorb shield is up?

Blocking is not applied at all because the damage never actually reaches the character. It is absorbed by a damage shield first.

If the damage was greater then the damage shield then the left over damage would then be mitigated and blocking will take effect.

Example:
A player hits me for 1,000 Damage.
I have a 500 damage shield.
The damage shield suffers 500 damage and is no gone.
The left over damage is 500.
I have 20% damage mitigation.
Damage done to character is 400.
I am blocking with 75% block mitigation.
I then take 100 damage total.

The block cost in stamina is also the same regardless of the damage blocked. A player can block a 10 damage attack or a 1,000 damage attack and it will still cost the same amount of stamina.

I'm almost certain block mitigation is applied before spell/armor mitigation.

Also 75% block mitigation is almost impossibly high to get. You can get there but only with a particular class and armor set. That's because block % stacking doesn't work as people think it does.

GnatB · August 2014

Troponin wrote: »

Even if the absorb shield is applied first, it does not appear as though blocking is applied at all. That's what I am referring to. Should the blocking not be applied at all if an absorb shield is up?

I have to agree, if that's how it works, then that seems broken/is a bug. It makes damage shields actually a liability, as opposed to the benefit they should *always* be.

i.e. If I have a 100 damage shield remaining, get attacked for 900, so 800 get's through, and if I block which should raise mitigation from 30% to 80% (or whatever block does), then if I still take 560 actual damage as if I didn't even block, then that seems terribly bugged. I'd have been better off w/o the damage shield, as then I would have only taken 180. The correct number, in the case of 100 shield remaining, should have been 160. Not a *huge* improvement over the 180, but it isn't a massive liability like the 560.

madangrypally · August 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm almost certain block mitigation is applied before spell/armor mitigation.

Also 75% block mitigation is almost impossibly high to get. You can get there but only with a particular class and armor set. That's because block % stacking doesn't work as people think it does.

I was unsure on what order block and damage mitigation was applied, so you may be correct.

And yea 75% is extremely high and was just used as an random number. I understand how it is actually applied.

IE:
Base Block = 50% damage mitigation.
Adding 10% increase block mitigation means 10% of that 50% thus
New Block = 55% damage mitigation.

Maulkin · August 2014

GnatB wrote: »

Troponin wrote: »

Even if the absorb shield is applied first, it does not appear as though blocking is applied at all. That's what I am referring to. Should the blocking not be applied at all if an absorb shield is up?

I have to agree, if that's how it works, then that seems broken/is a bug. It makes damage shields actually a liability, as opposed to the benefit they should *always* be.

i.e. If I have a 100 damage shield remaining, get attacked for 900, so 800 get's through, and if I block which should raise mitigation from 30% to 80% (or whatever block does), then if I still take 560 actual damage as if I didn't even block, then that seems terribly bugged. I'd have been better off w/o the damage shield, as then I would have only taken 180. The correct number, in the case of 100 shield remaining, should have been 160. Not a *huge* improvement over the 180, but it isn't a massive liability like the 560.

You've got it all horribly wrong. Armor/Spell Res does not stack with block. You're always better off with a dmg shield. That should be very easy for you to test too.

Maulkin · August 2014

madangrypally wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm almost certain block mitigation is applied before spell/armor mitigation.

Also 75% block mitigation is almost impossibly high to get. You can get there but only with a particular class and armor set. That's because block % stacking doesn't work as people think it does.

I was unsure on what order block and damage mitigation was applied, so you may be correct.

And yea 75% is extremely high and was just used as an random number. I understand how it is actually applied.

IE:
Base Block = 50% damage mitigation.
Adding 10% increase block mitigation means 10% of that 50% thus
New Block = 55% damage mitigation.

That's the correct calculation, an awesome from me.

My theory crafting has led to maximum possible block mitigation of 75% exactly. If you have a DK with Iron Skin passive, S&B equipped ofc, Defensive Posture slotted and finally the Ward of Cyrodiil set. They add 50% more mitigation to your base 50% = 75%

Troponin · August 2014

Maverick827 wrote: »

This is why most damage shields suck. Barrier is the only good one because the values are just so high. Throwing up a 400-point damage shield is useless in PvE and PvP.

I just got sun shield for my Templar and have been trying to out together a tanking build. I see that it scales with health, so I wonder if it is worth it because of its scaling. Even with only 2,000 health, which is easy for a tank, it's 600 damage. Knowin the scaling, is there a threshold of what circumstance blazing shield would become more beneficial than blocking? I guess if the incoming damage is mostly spell? What about a physical threshold?

Thanks for all this great info. I think this will help me a better tank in the long run

Lynx7386 · August 2014

The real issue here is that if you have a 500 point damage shield and take a 1000 damage hit, you'll take 500 damage no matter what your armor or resistances are. That 500 damage that bypasses the shield should be subject to your mitigation

Troponin · August 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

The real issue here is that if you have a 500 point damage shield and take a 1000 damage hit, you'll take 500 damage no matter what your armor or resistances are. That 500 damage that bypasses the shield should be subject to your mitigation

That could be the issue as well. I posted this originally because it seems like the hits I was taking with my absorb shield up just seemed way too big of a chunk out of my health. I wonder if something is truly broken with this

Grimmspat · September 2014

I've noticed the issues as above as well as to blocking in shields but it raised another question, I couldn't find the answer to:

If you cast two absorb shields, is it first one cast, first one out? Meaning if I cast two different shields that can absorb damage (and assuming the incoming damage is less both absorbs), which shield is used up? The fist one cast or the second one cast?

Thanks in advance.

Soloeus · September 2014

FIFO (First In, First Out).

Imagine if I cast Dampen Magicka then Healing Ward, then Barrier then Hardened Ward.

Since you don't want the effects of Dampen and Ward to stack with the others you have to have them all count separately.

PBpsy · September 2014

Maverick827 wrote: »

This is why most damage shields suck. Barrier is the only good one because the values are just so high. Throwing up a 400-point damage shield is useless in PvE and PvP.

Dampen Magic or Harness Magicka with 7 light peces will make Crystal Shards and Swalow Soul almost useless on me. I always have it on.

ZOS_LodieA · September 2014

Greetings everyone,

We wanted to let you know that we moved this thread to the "Combat and Skill Lines - English" forum.

Thank you.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · September 2014

so much misinformation, and no help from zos just their usual move-announcement

from what I know, with a shieldspell active, armor/sr mitigation is ignored
tamrielfoundry.com/topic/eso-unraveled-8-stamina-and-damage-shields/
tamrielfoundry.com/topic/damage-shields/
tamrielfoundry.com/topic/mechanics-of-shield-spells/

dunno if all is still relevant, some are quite old

Shaun98ca2 · September 2014

Had this discussion like 6 months ago I believe the community concluded that the example.......

Lynx7386 wrote: »

The real issue here is that if you have a 500 point damage shield and take a 1000 damage hit, you'll take 500 damage no matter what your armor or resistances are. That 500 damage that bypasses the shield should be subject to your mitigation

The 500 bleed over damage does get mitigated once the damage shield disappears.

Personally I look at it this way. Damage shield is free HP that allows you to forgo blocking (except knockdown attacks). While not the BEST method of healing in the game it works quite well with HOTS which is how the restro staff heals and ONE of the places you GET a damage ward.