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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668104/
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668104/
Not sure I understand...
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Sasky✭✭✭How about a quote saying "We are not removing Veteran Ranks"? (And make sure that it's explicitly clear it is referencing the final phase, when they're fully done with the replacement.)
Sure, no problem. Listen from 41:30 to 43:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0UUsPRdY5k&list=PLGtuqcQxqHoy1a38fYx1CkebhJf_40Tku&index=4
The final phase is the implementation of the Champion Point system which has nothing to do with Veteran Ranks. (see post below)
I was well aware of Paul Sage's quote when issued that challenge, and it's specific to Phase 2: "When we take away veteran points, that's not going to take away veteran rank."
Nothing about not taking away veteran rank at a later phase. All that tells us is it's not happening at the same time. Also at 41:28 the questioner specifically states he's asking about Phase 2 the next couple of questions. The 2nd question prompts that quote at 42:45. (Also, at 43:00 Paul does explicitly state he's switching to talk about the Champion system, or Phase 3).
@SirJesto, I added the part to make sure it's explicitly clear it's referencing the final phase exactly because of that video/quote.Edited by Sasky on 20 August 2014 20:500 -
SirJesto✭✭✭How about a quote saying "We are not removing Veteran Ranks"? (And make sure that it's explicitly clear it is referencing the final phase, when they're fully done with the replacement.)
Sure, no problem. Listen from 41:30 to 43:00https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0UUsPRdY5k&list=PLGtuqcQxqHoy1a38fYx1CkebhJf_40Tku&index=4
The final phase is the implementation of the Champion Point system which has nothing to do with Veteran Ranks. (see post below)
I was well aware of Paul Sage's quote when issued that challenge, and it's specific to Phase 2: "When we take away veteran points, that's not going to take away veteran rank."
Nothing about not taking away veteran rank at a later phase. All that tells us is it's not happening at the same time. Also at 41:28 the questioner specifically states he's asking about Phase 2 the next couple of questions. The 2nd question prompts that quote at 42:45. (Also, at 43:00 Paul does explicitly state he's switching to talk about the Champion system, or Phase 3).
@SirJesto, I added the part to make sure it's explicitly clear it's referencing the final phase exactly because of that video/quote.
Yeah sure I get it. But the Phase 3 has to do with the Champion System which is completely different and unrelated to the Veteran Rank system that's why it is never even mentioned in phase 3 so....
Also as stated in my post above, what happens to Gear if they were to eliminate Veteran Ranks? Will it all disappear? Come on man.
And What about crafting? Will all those VR materials you have saved up just disappear too?
Is it so hard to imagine a world with both of the systems in it?
Think about it. I'm sure you will come up with the right answer.Edited by SirJesto on 20 August 2014 21:241 -
Dubah✭✭✭How about a quote saying "We are not removing Veteran Ranks"? (And make sure that it's explicitly clear it is referencing the final phase, when they're fully done with the replacement.)
Sure, no problem. Listen from 41:30 to 43:00https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0UUsPRdY5k&list=PLGtuqcQxqHoy1a38fYx1CkebhJf_40Tku&index=4
The final phase is the implementation of the Champion Point system which has nothing to do with Veteran Ranks. (see post below)
I was well aware of Paul Sage's quote when issued that challenge, and it's specific to Phase 2: "When we take away veteran points, that's not going to take away veteran rank."
Nothing about not taking away veteran rank at a later phase. All that tells us is it's not happening at the same time. Also at 41:28 the questioner specifically states he's asking about Phase 2 the next couple of questions. The 2nd question prompts that quote at 42:45. (Also, at 43:00 Paul does explicitly state he's switching to talk about the Champion system, or Phase 3).
@SirJesto, I added the part to make sure it's explicitly clear it's referencing the final phase exactly because of that video/quote.
Yeah sure I get it. But the Phase 3 has to do with the Champion System which is completely different and unrelated to the Veteran Rank system that's why it is never even mentioned in phase 3 so....
Also as stated in my post above, what happens to Gear if they were to eliminate Veteran Ranks? Will it all disappear? Come on man.
And What about crafting? Will all those VR materials you have saved up just disappear too?
Is it so hard to imagine a world with both of the systems in it?
Think about it. I'm sure you will come up with the right answer.
Lol, you keep coming back for more beatings, paul sage never mentioned anything in your video about later phases. Nobody has half a clue what they will be doing about the gear or the craft because they have not mentioned a thing. It has been quoted from Gina Bruno that veteran ranks will be removed and never quoted from anyone else that they won't be removed at all... The cards are stacked against you man. And you are correct i went back and looked at the video they were not the ones mentioning the veteran rank removal, instead it was said in the chat on twitch.tv during the eso panel, Here and recorded, even reddit documented it at that link that the question was asked by defatank and answered by Jessica Folsom... That's now 2 people that have said they will be removed and no dev nor forum moderator or really anyone who works for ZOS has said that veteran ranks will not go away... Must i say more?
Also if you read that post further down there is a quote from a dev that said gear will be rated as a champion rating for replacement of the veteran ranks on the gear...
I really wish that someone from ZOS like @ZOS_JessicaFolsom or @ZOS_GinaBruno would come in here and say whether or not this still stands... It is likely that their thoughts on getting rid of veteran ranks has gone away and are leaning more towards keeping them now, however the double sideways progression is still very confusing to most playersEdited by Dubah on 20 August 2014 23:071 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »I've watched those videos and read every post I can find. The misunderstanding is this:
- They said they were removing Veteran Points, which are an alternate form of experience you gain after hitting VR1.
- They said, quite clearly, that they are not removing Veteran Ranks, which are ranks that exist past 49. In the future, as clarified by Paul Sage, you will earn regular experience points to gain in veteran ranks.
People are just repeating what they heard wrong. Veteran points and veteran ranks are two separate mechanics.
Well explained ruze84b14. With the official sources of information, this is exactly the info so far available. The Veteran experience points after the changeover will be utilized as 'Champion points' and we will be able to use those points for 'perks' to progress our character in various ways, ie as in a AA system like EQ II etc.
It has been mentioned those already at cap will gain some measure of Champion points immediately for the work they have already put into their characters, though ZOS hasn't explained exactly how many as yet.
It is also easy to guess that those players who play the game the longest or played the game the most, will benefit the most from access to the Champion point perks as it goes forward. There will be some sort of minimal "rest e x p" also being added in for when you are offline; but I'm guessing it will be fairly tiny if its similar to other MMO's implementation.
Additionally, there never has been any info released that the Vet + content areas would be changing, so as of up to today, doing the whole other two factions is still going to operate the same way. From the info we have so far, sounds like a great way to add to your character's effectiveness incrementally.
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Sasky✭✭✭
Except for that it's replacing Veteran Ranks as the motivating factor for getting XP after level cap...Yeah sure I get it. But the other phase has to do with the Champion System which is completely different than the Veteran rank system and unrelated so....
Speculating, I'd think they'd remove the level requirement and call it "Season 1" gear. They might keep it the same stats, boost it all to be VR14 (or w/e) equivalent stats, or boost to thresholds (V5, V10, V14). Keep in mind season gear will be better, so the gear will be outdated to some degree regardless.Also as stated in my post above, what happens to Gear if they were to eliminate Veteran Ranks? Will it all disappear? Come on man.
Going forward Season Gear is the main gear progression. Paul did state in that interview that there will be an equivalent way for crafters to make season gear, so they'll have to re-do crafting anyways. If you look at the Provisioning overhaul, they're planning on completely replacing all the ingredients with a smaller number -- and they'll convert the existing ones to equivalent items. So it's not that far-fetched to think if any mats were made useless by crafting changes that they'd similarly exchange them for the equivalent.And What about crafting? Will all those VR materials you have saved up just disappear too?Think about it. I'm sure you will come up with the right answer.
If you want to go about it logically, currently there are 3 reasons for getting higher veteran ranks: using gear with higher VR requirement, passive boosts to softcap/stats, and a quick indicator for how strong you are for doing content.
Under the new champion system (from what we know so far):
- Best gear (season gear) is no level requirement => VR not needed
- Stat increases directly through champion points => VR not needed
- Champion rating more directly indicates power => VR not needed
So, what's the point of keeping veteran ranks around?1 -
SirJesto✭✭✭
Lol, you keep coming back for more beatings
You start every post with Lol, it's really weird.
, paul sage never mentioned anything in your video about later phases.
Well to be fair, it isn't MY video. We all know there are 4 phases, he talks about the first 3 in that video and Phase 4 in the Quakecon video.
What we know from what was said.
Phase 1 - VR difficulty balancing (completed)
Phase 2 - Veteran points becoming experience points
Phase 3 - Champion points based on experience gained.
Phase 4 - Champion gear released in seasons and difficult to obtain.Nobody has half a clue what they will be doing about the gear or the craft because they have not mentioned a thing.
Why mention it if it won't change.It has been quoted from Gina Bruno that veteran ranks will be removed and never quoted from anyone else that they won't be removed at all...
defatank and answered by Jessica Folsom... That's now 2 people that have said they will be removed and no dev nor forum moderator or really anyone who works for ZOS has said that veteran ranks will not go away...
No offense to the moderators but unless A developer says otherwise I will continue to believe what has been said by developers.The cards are stacked against you man.
Not really. There are a lot of people that believe the exact thing I do.Also if you read that post further down there is a quote from a dev that said gear will be rated as a champion rating for replacement of the veteran ranks on the gear...
Couldn't find that. I would appreciate you quoting that for me.I really wish that someone from ZOS like @ZOS_JessicaFolsom or @ZOS_GinaBruno would come in here and say whether or not this still stands...
Or better yet @ZOS_PaulSage
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SirJesto✭✭✭
Except for that it's replacing Veteran Ranks as the motivating factor for getting XP after level cap...Yeah sure I get it. But the other phase has to do with the Champion System which is completely different than the Veteran rank system and unrelated so....
Speculating, I'd think they'd remove the level requirement and call it "Season 1" gear. They might keep it the same stats, boost it all to be VR14 (or w/e) equivalent stats, or boost to thresholds (V5, V10, V14). Keep in mind season gear will be better, so the gear will be outdated to some degree regardless.Also as stated in my post above, what happens to Gear if they were to eliminate Veteran Ranks? Will it all disappear? Come on man.
Going forward Season Gear is the main gear progression. Paul did state in that interview that there will be an equivalent way for crafters to make season gear, so they'll have to re-do crafting anyways. If you look at the Provisioning overhaul, they're planning on completely replacing all the ingredients with a smaller number -- and they'll convert the existing ones to equivalent items. So it's not that far-fetched to think if any mats were made useless by crafting changes that they'd similarly exchange them for the equivalent.And What about crafting? Will all those VR materials you have saved up just disappear too?Think about it. I'm sure you will come up with the right answer.
If you want to go about it logically, currently there are 3 reasons for getting higher veteran ranks: using gear with higher VR requirement, passive boosts to softcap/stats, and a quick indicator for how strong you are for doing content.
Under the new champion system (from what we know so far):
- Best gear (season gear) is no level requirement => VR not needed
- Stat increases directly through champion points => VR not needed
- Champion rating more directly indicates power => VR not needed
So, what's the point of keeping veteran ranks around?
Honestly everything you say makes complete sense.
I just wish in all the developer videos and interviews they could have expanded on it more to answer these questions.
As it is now, they haven't.1 -
Dubah✭✭✭
Lol, you keep coming back for more beatings
You start every post with Lol, it's really weird.
, paul sage never mentioned anything in your video about later phases.
Well to be fair, it isn't MY video. We all know there are 4 phases, he talks about the first 3 in that video and Phase 4 in the Quakecon video.
What we know from what was said.
Phase 1 - VR difficulty balancing (completed)
Phase 2 - Veteran points becoming experience points
Phase 3 - Champion points based on experience gained.
Phase 4 - Champion gear released in seasons and difficult to obtain.Nobody has half a clue what they will be doing about the gear or the craft because they have not mentioned a thing.
Why mention it if it won't change.It has been quoted from Gina Bruno that veteran ranks will be removed and never quoted from anyone else that they won't be removed at all...
defatank and answered by Jessica Folsom... That's now 2 people that have said they will be removed and no dev nor forum moderator or really anyone who works for ZOS has said that veteran ranks will not go away...
No offense to the moderators but unless A developer says otherwise I will continue to believe what has been said by developers.The cards are stacked against you man.
Not really. There are a lot of people that believe the exact thing I do.Also if you read that post further down there is a quote from a dev that said gear will be rated as a champion rating for replacement of the veteran ranks on the gear...
Couldn't find that. I would appreciate you quoting that for me.I really wish that someone from ZOS like @ZOS_JessicaFolsom or @ZOS_GinaBruno would come in here and say whether or not this still stands...
Or better yet @ZOS_PaulSage
It starts with Lol because im laughing at you, usually what Lol means. However not laughing at you for a dumb reason but because you are the only person who starts an argument and finishes it strong. I give you credit for your continuing to defend your point but i will note, that no game developer has ever said anything about not getting rid of veteran ranks at all, they merely said during phase 2, which still is not here, they will not be getting rid of veteran ranks. That being said you have 2 people who works for ZOS, maybe not a developer but they work for the company, have said they will be getting rid of veteran ranks and at no time have ever said that they will never be getting rid of veteran ranks when the final touches are put on the champion system. The video you linked merely talks about phase 2. I would shake your hand if i could for keeping the argument up this long but sadly i got 2 points on my side and none on yours. And yes you are right you did not create the video however you own it in this argument for the fact that you brought something that meant nothing into the argument. Therefore YOUR video means nothing to this argument. I don't know what to tell ya man, the changes are coming and at this point i am trust both gina and jessica because they haven't lied to us yet. It would be nice if someone from ZOS would come in here and say something but sadly they refuse to communicate with us on certain topics which in the long run is the reason why most companies crash... So hopefully this childish strategy works out for ZOS but if it doesn't i will be the first one to say, i told you so0 -
Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭killedbyping wrote: »Nobody ever stated that Veteran ranks will be removed...
Only the VETERAN POINTS, which will be replaced by normal EXP which is good, because you will keep getting skills EXP while in veteran content.
Actually, Jessica said they were being removed on twitch.
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LtCrunch✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, whats on pts is clearly not phase 2 because I still see VP requirement for next VR. I too don't remember reading anywhere about VR removal and don't quite follow the whole buzz about it.
Let's put it this way, If they removed VR Ranks what would happen to:
A) Gear
and
B ) Crafting as a whole.
They aren't removing Veteran Ranks, and anyone that thinks they are is mis-informed.
*Snip* @Arsenic_Touch beat me to it. But yes there has been confirmation that VR ranks are going to be removed @SirJestoEdited by LtCrunch on 21 August 2014 04:56NerdSauce GamingLaughs-At-Wounds - Sap tanking since 03/30/14ßrandalf - Light armor tanking since 03/03/15Brandalf Beer-Belly - Tanking drunk since 12/30/160 -
Kego✭✭✭✭killedbyping wrote: »Nobody ever stated that Veteran ranks will be removed...
Only the VETERAN POINTS, which will be replaced by normal EXP which is good, because you will keep getting skills EXP while in veteran content.
I'm sure they will be removed, cause it is just a terrible idea.
Think of it in a year or two. How will a new player ever be playing the Endgame with his friends? Leveling to 50, than grind his way to VR 20 or 25? That would take a year of grind.
The complete VR mechanic is just stupid, cause it is not only a gear level but a character level as well.
It still can be connected to the Champ System. We still know as good as nothing. It is possible that you can spend your Points for Veteran Armor. So you can unlock VR1 Gear, VR2 Gear and so on but your Character Level will remain at 50.Also as stated in my post above, what happens to Gear if they were to eliminate Veteran Ranks? Will it all disappear? Come on man.
A new Season Gear will than just bring another VR Skilllevel to the Champ System where you can spend a point if earned to get access to the next VR Armor Level.
Edited by Kego on 21 August 2014 12:400 -
Sasky✭✭✭
Except for that it's replacing Veteran Ranks as the motivating factor for getting XP after level cap...Yeah sure I get it. But the other phase has to do with the Champion System which is completely different than the Veteran rank system and unrelated so....
Speculating, I'd think they'd remove the level requirement and call it "Season 1" gear. They might keep it the same stats, boost it all to be VR14 (or w/e) equivalent stats, or boost to thresholds (V5, V10, V14). Keep in mind season gear will be better, so the gear will be outdated to some degree regardless.Also as stated in my post above, what happens to Gear if they were to eliminate Veteran Ranks? Will it all disappear? Come on man.
Going forward Season Gear is the main gear progression. Paul did state in that interview that there will be an equivalent way for crafters to make season gear, so they'll have to re-do crafting anyways. If you look at the Provisioning overhaul, they're planning on completely replacing all the ingredients with a smaller number -- and they'll convert the existing ones to equivalent items. So it's not that far-fetched to think if any mats were made useless by crafting changes that they'd similarly exchange them for the equivalent.And What about crafting? Will all those VR materials you have saved up just disappear too?Think about it. I'm sure you will come up with the right answer.
If you want to go about it logically, currently there are 3 reasons for getting higher veteran ranks: using gear with higher VR requirement, passive boosts to softcap/stats, and a quick indicator for how strong you are for doing content.
Under the new champion system (from what we know so far):
- Best gear (season gear) is no level requirement => VR not needed
- Stat increases directly through champion points => VR not needed
- Champion rating more directly indicates power => VR not needed
So, what's the point of keeping veteran ranks around?
Honestly everything you say makes complete sense.
I just wish in all the developer videos and interviews they could have expanded on it more to answer these questions.
As it is now, they haven't.
<sarcasm>What? Actually listening to arguments and agreeing, @SirJesto? This is the internet! You're supposed to stick to your guns and flat out ignore any counter arguments! Better yet, just ignore everything about the post except for maybe a choice phrase or two. See political debating for additional tips.</sarcasm>
In all seriousness it would be nice if we got some more information. The Road Ahead yesterday had a section about it. However, it only teases a constellation image and that it's in the middle timeframe category of "Expect to see in a while", so maybe around Christmas and Update 6.0 -
SirJesto✭✭✭
Except for that it's replacing Veteran Ranks as the motivating factor for getting XP after level cap...Yeah sure I get it. But the other phase has to do with the Champion System which is completely different than the Veteran rank system and unrelated so....
Speculating, I'd think they'd remove the level requirement and call it "Season 1" gear. They might keep it the same stats, boost it all to be VR14 (or w/e) equivalent stats, or boost to thresholds (V5, V10, V14). Keep in mind season gear will be better, so the gear will be outdated to some degree regardless.Also as stated in my post above, what happens to Gear if they were to eliminate Veteran Ranks? Will it all disappear? Come on man.
Going forward Season Gear is the main gear progression. Paul did state in that interview that there will be an equivalent way for crafters to make season gear, so they'll have to re-do crafting anyways. If you look at the Provisioning overhaul, they're planning on completely replacing all the ingredients with a smaller number -- and they'll convert the existing ones to equivalent items. So it's not that far-fetched to think if any mats were made useless by crafting changes that they'd similarly exchange them for the equivalent.And What about crafting? Will all those VR materials you have saved up just disappear too?Think about it. I'm sure you will come up with the right answer.
If you want to go about it logically, currently there are 3 reasons for getting higher veteran ranks: using gear with higher VR requirement, passive boosts to softcap/stats, and a quick indicator for how strong you are for doing content.
Under the new champion system (from what we know so far):
- Best gear (season gear) is no level requirement => VR not needed
- Stat increases directly through champion points => VR not needed
- Champion rating more directly indicates power => VR not needed
So, what's the point of keeping veteran ranks around?
Honestly everything you say makes complete sense.
I just wish in all the developer videos and interviews they could have expanded on it more to answer these questions.
As it is now, they haven't.
<sarcasm>What? Actually listening to arguments and agreeing, @SirJesto? This is the internet! You're supposed to stick to your guns and flat out ignore any counter arguments! Better yet, just ignore everything about the post except for maybe a choice phrase or two. See political debating for additional tips.</sarcasm>
In all seriousness it would be nice if we got some more information. The Road Ahead yesterday had a section about it. However, it only teases a constellation image and that it's in the middle timeframe category of "Expect to see in a while", so maybe around Christmas and Update 6.
Yes you made complete sense in that post.
If the ideas you mentioned are true, I would be happy with a system like that.
Guess I'm coming around.
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