Bow & DW NB's - share ideas on dealing with 3+ mobs in VR?

tintin_milou · August 2014

I am one of those Bow & DW NB's...

And the only other skill have on my bar is Mage Guild's Volcanic Rune

Below V1, I used to be able to kill 3+ mobs using the following:

Volcanic Rune (if area encompasses the whole mob)
Scorch Earth
Bombard
Bombard
Bombard

Until they all die and I nearly run of of Stamina. My idea is to make Scorch Earth useful (3 sec channel + 6 sec AOE) so need to use Vol Rune and Bombard to keep the mobs in place to take the Scorch Earth damage.

However, in V1+, the mobs have higher health and my DPS (has increased also but not enough) is not enough to down the mobs when my stamina runs out. Do people have some ideas to share?

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I also tried using Drain Power and Whirling Blades and Volcanic Rune. But here the Whirling Blades damage is weak in the beginning (when mobs near full health) and so I usually die before all the mobs die,

in contrast to the bow range attack where I usually don't take much damage.

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So finally, I thought I would start with

Volcanic Rune (if area encompass the whole mob)
Scorch Earth
Bombard

then Lotus Fan
then Switch to DW

then Drain Power + Whirling Blades + Whirling Blades... I haven't tried this too much since it is kind of complex having to switch weapon in the middle.

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So all you advanced and successful Bow/DW NB's out there. Could you share your good ideas please? Thanks!

BTW I am not a vampire or WW.

aco5712 · August 2014

Siphoning attacks will help you out a huge amount. 10% chance for all attacks to restore 15% stamina + magicka. It will reduce your dmg but its worth the extra. resources.

What i suggest. Have SA on both bars. Do your rune + bombard spam until they hit around 50%. Make sure to use swallow soul/funnel health just for a nice little HOT and then swap to DW and use a sap essence/power extraction (whichever you prefer - i prefer sap) and then spam whirlwind. If you find your running out of resources, spam sap essence to proc SA and get stamina back.

Another useful tactic might be to use reaper's mark. Stealth hit one of the mobs with a bow heavy attack to drop them quick down on health. Then do whats mentioned above. If you find your running low on health. Use repears mark on that low health mob and try to focus on him. Get him to 25% and then use killers blade (heal moprh). You will get a 78% heal from killing him.

KenCleanAirSystem · August 2014

I use a bow on both of my bars and have exclusively class and weapon actives slotted. As long as the fight is on my terms groups of three to four or five are generally not too much of a problem.

I currently use reader's mark, killer's blade, swallow soul, concealed weapon and shadowy disguise, with soul harvest as the ultimate. Second bar is draining shot, bombard, poison injection, refreshing path, and leeching strikes with veil of blades as the ultimate.

Open from stealth on a marked target with concealed weapon and take them out quick, then snare and knock back every one else. Whittle them down with Bow abilities and normal attacks with leeching strikes toggled if necessary, then swap back to bar 1 when magic has regenerated for shadowy disguise, concealed weapon, and killer's blade on low health enemies.

Fights can drag out a bit at times, but there are more than enough health regenerating attacks that you are never really at too much risk of falling.

Ser Lobo · August 2014

In the early VR, I used purely bow (all the way to about VR8, actually, and only swapped over to train something else, not because I needed to ... I still go back to my bow for difficult fights).

My tactic was: start from stealth, stealth heavy shot one mob (mob is stunned for about two-three seconds), Agony either the healer/lightning/elite mob, kill the mob I've stunned with first strike while alternating knockback. By the time the agonied mob breaks stun, I should have primary mob destroyed, and if I wish, I can then agony the secondary mob (as long as no dot's sit on him) and kill the mob I agonied. I switched siphon in the mix

This was my primary tactic before the VR nerf, and allowed me to break apart three-mob groups, piece by piece. After the VR nerf, I essentially went with Venom Arrow, Siphon, Knockback, Volcanic Rune and Leeching Strikes, and just pulled dps on them with knockback and volcanic rune while focusing on one mob with venom/siphon. They die much easier.

Switching weapons mid-fight never has quite worked for me. Usually, if I'm going to engage the mob with dual wield, I stick with it. My dual wield is also my stealth, with my lineup going assassins strike, steel tornado, Concealed weapon, volcanic rune, shadowy disguise.

I usually stealth strike one mob, drop rune, pop shadow disguise, hit one with concealed weapon, steel tornado, volcanic rune, etc, etc. AOE mob death, pretty much.

My builds are high-crit, medium armor builds.

JonzzLonewolf · August 2014

Volcanic Rune + Veil of Blades. Then do some random proddings at the mobs and you're done.

Also helps if you stealth and hit a mob from the hind with a bow heavy attack for an initial damage bonus.

Cody · August 2014

I used impale to finish people off, shadow cloak to confuse enemies and get a good distance away when I get swarmed. funnel health to sustain myself, draining shot to knock enemies away, and venom arrow to do some damage and disrupt special attacks. get a stealth hit, kill the enemy you jumped, and CC bosses to death.

Stx · August 2014

Sap Essence + Whirlwind, or... Take them out one at a time from range whilst dodging ranged attacks and knocking back melee with scatter shot.

Siphoning Strikes is a must IMO.

Kartalin · August 2014

Eat a stamina increasing food (I prefer Enriched Fishy Sticks, + health and + stamina), then strike first with a Concealed Weapon attack, Sap Essence, Steel Tornado x 10, use interrupts and a heal potion where appropriate. I've gotten up to groups of 6 of the same level with that, although I'm cutting it close there.

GwaynLoki · August 2014

If you go for single target damage: A combo of Mass Hysteria and Sparks should help you kill the first mob fast. Soul Harvest for faster ultimate generation so you can drop Veil of Blades. Don't use Reaper's Mark if you don't need health urgently. Mobs have low armor or spell resist so you are gimping yourself with it more than you are debuffing your enemies. If you got snipe, use it as an opener from stealth for extra dmg.

LunaRae · August 2014

I ran assassins blade, shadowy disguise, rapid strikes, bloodcraze/veiled strikes, focused attacks and consuming darkness.

Sneak in and insta-kill a mob with veiled strike (sneak attack morph is good). This ability alone does a ton of damage and you can follow up with 1 light attack then charge a 3/4 heavy attack for the knockdown. The big focus on my build was healing, so I always finish a target with assassins blade which heals for 17%. Next target I would just rapid strikes down and finish with AB again, rinse and repeat. Sometimes if a fight is particularly challenging I would use shadowy disguise and proc another veiled strike on the second mob, OR I would use my ultimate for big damage mitigation.

tintin_milou · August 2014

Ok thanks for all your helpful suggestions!

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I haven't thought of using single target Bow skills against mobs.

So in that case, toggle Siphoning Strikes, and use Scatter Shot/Morphs to push back melees and use Venom Arrow & other class abilities against range, right?

A couple of question... I tried out Siphoning Strikes before but seeing that only 10% chance (non-light, non-heavy attacks) of returning magicka and stamina, didn't know just how often SA activates. I guess that 10% happens often enough for you that you don't run out of energy?

2nd question - aiming. You must be pretty good at aiming. I am terrible at this.

Sometimes I meant to aim at one mob but wound up aiming at at neighboring mob! (wait, did I shoot this guy already with venom arrow?) And then sometimes the melee mob gets into your line of sight of your target!

And I wound up shoot the unintended melee instead. So I guess you have to move around a bit, right?

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So other suggestions are surprise attack/conceal weapon to kill one quickly - which is easy. Then use bow skill to snare and keep them at bay and kill them by slow attrition. Toggle SA to save energy for long fight.

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Many people suggest using Sap Essence. Yes the self-heal should be useful in keeping health up while I use whirling blades to down them. Use stamina potion in the middle to make sure there is enough energy for the whole fight.

I have the Power Extraction morph because I think the potential DPS increase would make me more attractive to a raid team...

Maybe I should morph to Sap Essence instead because soloing mob is easier with it.

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Yes I could always pop Veil of Blades on the mobs for a quick easy kill but I prefer to save the ultimate for boss encounters. The boss sometimes summon mobs in the middle, and I need the Veil to stay alive and win.

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Thanks again for all your help!

CapuchinSeven · August 2014

tintin_milou wrote: »

A couple of question... I tried out Siphoning Strikes before but seeing that only 10% chance (non-light, non-heavy attacks) of returning magicka and stamina, didn't know just how often SA activates. I guess that 10% happens often enough for you that you don't run out of energy?

Some people don't always see the benefit here, but that's a 10% chance to restore magic AND stamina on all attacks, so for example in PVP when I use up all my magic with stealth and fear, when I then turn around and hammer out light attacks and venom arrow one after another I'm not just building up the stamina I'm using I'm also building back up my magic as well. And of course it works the other way around as well.

It makes a difference to your energy loss, it is more than possible for you to run out of stamina or magic but once you're used to it, it's possible to weave and change your attack type to quickly replenish your other resource bar.

KenCleanAirSystem · August 2014

Siphoning strikes is much better when morphed. The leeching strikes morph restores stamina, health and magic. I slot power extraction on occasion, but only for group /public dungeons where its effect is worth the slot.

A good sustainability morph for solo is Reapers Mark. Use it midfight to mark low health targets for a good health and power boost when they die.

As for ultimate, I find having the assassination ultimate morph soul harvest slotted on my main bar regenerates ultimate fast enough to make it viable for more frequent use. It is also a pretty good attack against a single target. I use veil of blades more frequently, but soul harvest is handy to have slotted.

Between swallow soul, refreshing path, leeching strikes, mark target, and killer's blade I rarely find myself wanting for health. When I do, however, I always have a bunch of restore all potions and the 5 piece bonus from the Whitestrake's Retribution armor set.

whvice · August 2014

Gotta agree with Leeching Strikes. 10% happens more often than you would believe esp when fighting against tougher opponents. Given NBs can often have an unlimited stream of magicka with the right passives and gear, anything that would help regen stamina will greatly boost your survivability both when facing single opponents as well as a group of mobs.

If all else fails you can always use this rotation for guaranteed success:

Volcanic Rune
Scorch Earth
Bombard

then Lotus Fan
then Switch to 5 Light + Destro Staff

Elemental Ring
Elemental Ring
Elemental Ring
Elemental Ring

Ser Lobo · August 2014

To clarify skill and names on my single-target bow build:

- Venom Arrow, Poison Arrow morph (interrupt is crucial against healers or magicka mobs; don't reset your poison dot by overapplying)
- Crippling Grasp, Cripple morph (slows target, does damage, and adds an immobilize with morph ... better in solo than Strife, IMO, due to the slow/immob)
- Draining Shot, morph of Scatter Shot (also adds immob, snare, plus uses far less stamina than Arrow Spray)
- Maelific Wreath, Agony morph (locks down target for 12 seconds, does more damage if you let them sit, and does a little aoe on completion)
- Leeching Strikes, morph of Siphoning Strikes (I used rarely, but it got the job done for keeping me up during fights with elites and a few bosses).

Quick link to this build, when I was running Haste instead of Siphoning Strikes.

I open from stealth with a heavy attack, usually at their back for extra stun. Then I'd switch targeting to agony my specific mob. Targeting for agony takes practice, for sure, and I often got it wrong. When I went back to my regular mob, I'd tab-target them often just to be sure I was focused on him, though if you are turned far enough away you can still hit the third mob with draining shot.

The fight with a bow IS longer. You are essentially rotating snares/immobilizes on mobs to keep your positioning. A little kiting was necessary, too. Damage output is low, compared to every other weapon out there, but CC is high and we can do a fair job of controlling the battlefield.

When you learn to use the rotation right (spam light attacks, poison arrow now and again when it's useful, otherwise rotating between Crippling Grasp for distant target and Draining Shot for closers in order to keep them locked down), you will stop taking damage. I was paper thin, so taking damage was not good for me.

I'm now to a point where I can take on like-mobs of up to five, or three and an elite, or even several and a boss (as long as the boss can be CC'd, else I call for help). It CAN be done, you just have to shape the battlefield and control the pieces on it better than any other class/weapon combo.

GwaynLoki · August 2014

tintin_milou wrote: »

2nd question - aiming. You must be pretty good at aiming. I am terrible at this. Sometimes I meant to aim at one mob but wound up aiming at at neighboring mob! (wait, did I shoot this guy already with venom arrow?) And then sometimes the melee mob gets into your line of sight of your target! And I wound up shoot the unintended melee instead. So I guess you have to move around a bit, right?

Use Tab for better targeting.

elwhy · August 2014

Just wanna reinforce the comments on reapers mark. I feel like I'm a decent player, in pve and pvp, but soloing VR levels would have been infinitely harder for me without it. I usually use it at the beginning while hidden, let my magicka come back a little, then attack. The marked enemy dies early usually, cuz he's my sneak attack target, but that means the first third or half of the fight didn't really touch my health cuz I'm back at full.

KenCleanAirSystem · August 2014

I play exclusively in first person view and aiming is second nature... I have played first person shooters on PC for years (started with Quake 2) so aiming comes easily. I also move constantly, in and out of melee between Bow attacks and melee attacks with concealed weapon. I also circle strafe targets and use the battlefield to my advantage keeping targets in front of me and using cover to break line of sight with ranged opponents.

When you are facing multiple NPC targets it also helps to prioritize targets. Take out the healer first if there is one, then the archers or spell casters while keeping the melee targets at bay with knock backs, snares, stuns, etc.

IceDread · August 2014

I've been planing to pick up my NB again. Back in the days when vield strike was bugged and sometimes didnt do damage, I got very frustrated and annoyed with all the bugs so I left him to later come back to my NB.

I planed to use my NB for utility / support heal and high single target dps. So I have a few things lvl'd such as healing staff and bow and a bit in dw and destro staff.

I'm planing to go back and use restrostaff + bow or possibly sword/shield but I fear that sword/ shield might have to low dps?

About light / heavy attacks with bow / restrostaff, does bow go on weapon crit and restrostaff on spellcrit I guess?

A lot of NB skills goes with weapon crit so this must get up, but a lot of skills uses magica while it still uses weapon crit thus making it annoying. I need good magica regen and value for damage as well as weapon crit. How do you guys solve it?

I'm thinking I'll use 5 piece light 1 med 1 heavy (for bubble protection) or 2 med. This way I get spell resistance, spell crit and more magica regen. Then I plan to use set bonuses for weapon crit (I'm a crafter). However, as I write this, I realize that I need the passives in medium armor.
This screws over magica regen but also spell resistance and a lot of players makes use of spells in this game..

Thoughts?

shadowz081 · August 2014

DW NB build:
Cloak, surprise attack/conceal wep, blood craze, flurry, siphon attack.

Go into stealth conceal wep one, correctly build med armor NB should be able to do 1.5k-2k damage to normal mobs and finish him quickly with a mix of DW and light attacks. By now 2-4sec should have passed and the other mob will have landed only one-two attack on you each, re-engage cloak and conceal wep the other, this will stun and like the 2nd and will allow you ample time to deal with him while the last fruitlessly scratches you and finish the last whenever.

I did this against most of VR normal mobs pre-nerf solo with little problems with siphon attack almost constantly active.

Also for siphon attacks, you can replace it with another skill if you dont think your resource will become a problem, and with it off and something like assassin blade on, you may be able to finish fights a few sec faster.

If you encounter gargoyles switch to sparks and time it to every 4-5 light attacks or equivalent timing for one spark activation, make sure you don't stand in the red circles when he smashes ground(you will survive just need to use a hp pot), and block if he use that 'rock throw; technique that turns you to stone.

For bosses, keep them in stun lock with cloak+conceal wep, 5-6 light attack before you have to re-engage cloak or take a heavy hit.

For stuff you can't stun you can always try my somewhat effective 'regen' build to try to out last the enemy.
Blood craze, refreshing path, swallow soul, killers blade, cloak(Replace cloak with leeching strikes if you have it...or anything really, cloak just give you a getaway method if thing are not going your way).

With this build the aim is to try and heal more than the enemy can damage you, or at least break even/'out dps' with heal over time skills that also does damage to your enemies. So fighting with this method might take a while, but may help against that mob you have to kill but can't stun...Mark target is also a good addition to this as placing it on a target that is about to die can give you a significant hp boost, forgot how much tho...Around 1k i think.

Also this does not work against gargoyles they simply hit too hard that you will need a dedicated healer for...though i haven't tried it combination with sparks.

Richard.A.Ferrellub17_ESO · August 2014

3-4 mob pack

1. Choose your first target (highest dps mob or healer) Reaper's Mark -- > Veiled Strike --> Agony on sneak target (leave the hostage alive... for now)

2. Single target dps rotation of your choice on remaining mobs

3. Killer's Blade on the agony target for 78% heal when u need it

*Alternative if you hit a wall: Assassinate 1 and pop smoke. Drop aggro at distance. Rinse and repeat. Slow, but guaranteed victory.

reften · August 2014

Option #1 (Bow / DW)
Step 1: Mob #1 = Veiled strike/impale
Step 2: Mob 2 & 3 Magnum shot
Step 3: Mob 2 - Dark cloak/vieled strike/flurry/impale
Step 4: Mob 3 - Whatever

Repeat Step 2 as needed after dropping the first mob.

Option #2 (DW Only)
Step 1: Mob #1 = Veiled strike/impale
Step 2: Mob 2 - Dark cloak/vieled strike/flurry/impale
Step 3: Mob 3 - Whatever

siphon strike if needed to boost healing

Can do Option #2 if you're spell power and weapon damage is high enough.

PBpsy · August 2014

I don't know about bow recently but this works for pretty well for Craglorn and VR dungeons with Double DW. It is definitely not a Trial Build.
Step 1. Abandon the idea that you should go full stamina build. Hybrids are awesome.
Step 2. Go full medium armor with infused . Hunding's and Night Mother's Gaze 5/4 .Two daggers or swords with precise.
Step 3-Magicka /stamina Jewels with reduced stamina cost and one armor enchants.
Step 4. Get ~2K magicka, 1.8K Stamina, 2K+ Health from all sources.
Step 5.AoE Blood Craze, Sap Essence ,Steel Tornado, Inner Light(YES That one),Siphoning Attacks. Soul Tether or VoB
Step.6 Single target. Funnel Health ,Rapid Strikes, Surprise Attack,Impale ,Siphoning Attacks Soul Tether or VoB.
I was hitting around 1.4Kdps AoE damage In Craglorn Delves with it. and about single target 450-500dps. Everything VR 12 blues.

tintin_milou · August 2014

Richard.A.Ferrellub17_ESO wrote: »

3-4 mob pack

1. Choose your first target (highest dps mob or healer) Reaper's Mark -- > Veiled Strike --> Agony on sneak target (leave the hostage alive... for now)

2. Single target dps rotation of your choice on remaining mobs

3. Killer's Blade on the agony target for 78% heal when u need it

*Alternative if you hit a wall: Assassinate 1 and pop smoke. Drop aggro at distance. Rinse and repeat. Slow, but guaranteed victory.

Wow this is the most creative way I have heard for using Reaper's Mark yet. Thanks so much for sharing! So funny... a mob acting as a super health potion!

I also read several posters mention using Agony/morphs on mobs. I gave up using Agony because of the annoyingly long 1.5 s cast. I wish it were shorter, like 0.5 sec

Richard.A.Ferrellub17_ESO · August 2014

agony should be instant like like dk's petrify.

Jaxom · August 2014

Richard.A.Ferrellub17_ESO wrote: »

3-4 mob pack

1. Choose your first target (highest dps mob or healer) Reaper's Mark -- > Veiled Strike --> Agony on sneak target (leave the hostage alive... for now)

2. Single target dps rotation of your choice on remaining mobs

3. Killer's Blade on the agony target for 78% heal when u need it

*Alternative if you hit a wall: Assassinate 1 and pop smoke. Drop aggro at distance. Rinse and repeat. Slow, but guaranteed victory.

This is actually a pretty brilliant combination. I've never considered using Agony on the marked target as a healing back up. +1

Banananoze · August 2014

I am VR 3.
BOW
1. Focused aim(snipe)
2. poison injection(poison arrow)
3. acid spray(arrow spray)
4. ---i am still figuring out what i enjoy in this spot---Crippling Grasp(cripple)---it immobilizes and does significant DOT. I have been switching this out for swallow soul(strife)...healing, a little..lol
5. magnum shot(scatter shot)---if they get a little to close

DUEL WIELD
1. Shadowy Disguise(shadow cloak)
2. surprise attack or concealed weapon(veiled strike)---cant decide which i prefer
3. Blinding flurry(flurry)---the occasional off balance is nice.
4. Silver Shards(silver bolts)---i have been liking this ability more and more
5. Siphoning attacks(siphoning strikes)---nice for recovering stam and magika in longer fights but i also slot: SAP ESSENCE OR POWER EXTRACTION (DRAIN POWER)---I like the power bonus but the little bit of heals can be beneficial.

All in all, after opening with focused aim i typically can dot them up and aoe fairly easy. With this basic build i never die on mobs and can take on up to around 7 enemies before i really start getting nervous.

Jaxom · August 2014

Banananoze wrote: »

I am VR 3.
BOW
1. Focused aim(snipe)
2. poison injection(poison arrow)
3. acid spray(arrow spray)
4. ---i am still figuring out what i enjoy in this spot---Crippling Grasp(cripple)---it immobilizes and does significant DOT. I have been switching this out for swallow soul(strife)...healing, a little..lol
5. magnum shot(scatter shot)---if they get a little to close

DUEL WIELD
1. Shadowy Disguise(shadow cloak)
2. surprise attack or concealed weapon(veiled strike)---cant decide which i prefer
3. Blinding flurry(flurry)---the occasional off balance is nice.
4. Silver Shards(silver bolts)---i have been liking this ability more and more
5. Siphoning attacks(siphoning strikes)---nice for recovering stam and magika in longer fights but i also slot: SAP ESSENCE OR POWER EXTRACTION (DRAIN POWER)---I like the power bonus but the little bit of heals can be beneficial.

All in all, after opening with focused aim i typically can dot them up and aoe fairly easy. With this basic build i never die on mobs and can take on up to around 7 enemies before i really start getting nervous.

Swap out Crippling Grasp for Tangling Webs from Undaunted (you're welcome).

Banananoze · August 2014

oo thank you...i completely forgot about undaunted skills lol. Only level one, so ima get on it.

tintin_milou · August 2014

Banananoze wrote: »

I am VR 3.
BOW
1. Focused aim(snipe)
2. poison injection(poison arrow)
3. acid spray(arrow spray)
4. ---i am still figuring out what i enjoy in this spot---Crippling Grasp(cripple)---it immobilizes and does significant DOT. I have been switching this out for swallow soul(strife)...healing, a little..lol
5. magnum shot(scatter shot)---if they get a little to close

DUEL WIELD
1. Shadowy Disguise(shadow cloak)
2. surprise attack or concealed weapon(veiled strike)---cant decide which i prefer
3. Blinding flurry(flurry)---the occasional off balance is nice.
4. Silver Shards(silver bolts)---i have been liking this ability more and more
5. Siphoning attacks(siphoning strikes)---nice for recovering stam and magika in longer fights but i also slot: SAP ESSENCE OR POWER EXTRACTION (DRAIN POWER)---I like the power bonus but the little bit of heals can be beneficial.

All in all, after opening with focused aim i typically can dot them up and aoe fairly easy. With this basic build i never die on mobs and can take on up to around 7 enemies before i really start getting nervous.

You must be very fast with hand-eye coordination!

Do you apply DOT on 6 enemies one by one, after the first one died to snipe? Then use magnum shot to get rid of enemies that are advancing too close? And occasionally use Cripple? I see only one AOE on the BOW bar (acid spray) - I have Bombard morph but wow that deals unimpressive damage and costs too much stamina.

Banananoze · August 2014

I open with snipe, usually crits and immobilizes for a short time. I dot other enemies then use acid spray. Ill usually use magnum shot if only one enemy gets too close. If more than one closes in, i will switch to dw. possibly stealth surprise atk. But i haven't had any trouble with this build up to VR 4 now, almost VR 5

Edit: Also i use killers blade in place of my 4 or 5 slot depending on my mood lol

Bow &amp; DW NB's - share ideas on dealing with 3+ mobs in VR?

Bow & DW NB's - share ideas on dealing with 3+ mobs in VR?