A class Ultimate scaling with Weapon Damage and Stamina.

madangrypally · July 2014

Class: Nightblade
Ultimate: Soul Siphon (Soul Shred Morph)

As I was testing some Nightblade abilities I ran across an anomaly. Class Abilities scale based on Spell Damage and Max Magicka for all I have tested besides 1. Soul Siphon. This Ultimate uses Weapon Damage and Max Stamina to determine its damage/heal.

I will be checking the live version to see if it is new to PTS or it has always been this way.

This is major if it is new and we can expect more class abilities to scale on Stamina and Weapon Damage. Can we get any feedback from the Devs on this please?

timidobserver · July 2014

It was my understanding that they made all ultimates scale based on whichever stat benefits you the most.

killedbyping · July 2014

timidobserver wrote: »

It was my understanding that they made all ultimates scale based on whichever stat benefits you the most.

I saw dev discussed this, but do they actualy already implemented it into PTS ?

I never saw any ETA on implementing this in game.

P.S. I would rather see an option to be able to manualy choose which ever stat i want to be my main and make ALL of the class skills to benefit from it, not just Ulti.

I would also rather see all the class skills to skill use Magicka, even if your main stat is Stamina.

P.S.S. Any1 else think that making ultimate scale with Weapon Damage and Stamina would make Stamina users do insane damage with ultimates ?
I mean max weapon DMG with 2h\DW is almost twice as big compared to Spell damage (specialy after spell damage nerf) and you can gain alot more of max stamina against max magicka even now and difference will be even bigger after new sets implememnted.
Making staves give SPELL damage (which is totaly logical imho) instead of weapon damage would greatly reduce that difference if not completely negate it (bcoz your weapon damage is all you got from weapon, enchantments and set bonuses, while spell damage is something you always have even when you totaly naked).

guybrushtb16_ESO · July 2014

killedbyping wrote: »

P.S.S. Any1 else think that making ultimate scale with Weapon Damage and Stamina would make Stamina users do insane damage with ultimates ?
I mean max weapon DMG with 2h\DW is almost twice as big compared to Spell damage (specialy after spell damage nerf) and you can gain alot more of max stamina against max magicka even now and difference will be even bigger after new sets implememnted.

That alone is not an issue IMO. Scaling with different attributes could easily mean scaling at a different coefficient also, with 100% being the softcap for example.

What really bugs me personally though, is that the game never bothers to tell you *any* of this. Not even once - besides a very vague tooltip, that spell damage *somehow* scales with magicka and attacks with stamina, you don't get anything; the game isn't even really consistent about what a spell is and so on.

I for one, would have never expected flame lash to scale with weapon crit for example, and many many more.

madangrypally · July 2014

They need to make all abilities scale on Max Magicka or Max Stamina depending on whichever one is highest. This is the only real way to fix Stamina builds as most other ways are not feasible or wont solve the underlaying issues.

I would love melee weapons and use their abilities but as soon as I begin stacking Max Stamina I am gimping all my class skills. Staffs right now are Overpowered and the only reason they are Overpowered is because they scale off of Max Magicka. Meaning they are not gimping class skills while using weapon skills.

If my 2-Hand Sword or Bow also scaled on Max Magicka I would use those over a Destruction staff nearly ever time. Max Magicka because that was my highest stat.

If my class abilities scaled on Max Stamina because that was the highest stat I could pick a weapon of choice and have options. I would not have as much Magicka to use my class abilities, but that is ok because Stamina abilities are my main focus. I just have the option to still use my class abilities without them being utter crap.

Faulgor · July 2014

madangrypally wrote: »

They need to make all abilities scale on Max Magicka or Max Stamina depending on whichever one is highest. This is the only real way to fix Stamina builds as most other ways are not feasible or wont solve the underlaying issues.

No, this would kill stamina builds once and for all. If stamina abilities can scale with magicka, there is absolutely zero reason to even attempt a stamina build. You would leave your stamina pool for CC break, dodge, sprint and block, and use magicka for offense. The only thing this would accomplish is that mages can hit just as hard with a 2handed sword without having to change their build.

okraus · July 2014

I wonder 2 things...

First, you do understand the basics of damage calculation of your abilities, do you?
I explain in short terms to be sure we have the same base for discussions like this:

(1a) Damage of all abilities from weapon skill lines (2H, 1H and Shield, Bow, Destro Staff, etc.) scale with weapon power.
(1b) Damage of all abilities from all other skill lines (all non-weapon skill lines that is) scale from spell power.

(2a) Abilities which use stamina to "cast" scale with your max stamina pool.
(2b) Abilities which use magicka to cast scale with your max magicka pool.

(3) Ultimate Abilities use the same stat (stamina or magicka) as all other "normal" abilities in their skill line.

Hope we do have here the same understanding.

Now to add some thoughts to this discussion. Is it true that the max stamina pool you can have is so inferior to the max magicka pool?
Putting most of your stat points in stamina instead of health (or magicka

).
Enchanting most of your armor with stamina glyphs.
Eating stamina buff food.
Using sets with stamina bonus.
Shouldn't that do it?

I am a magicka user and my max magicka pool is around 2k a little over soft cap with magicka buff food active.
I never tried but is that really impossible to do with stamina? It is hard for me to believe that...

madangrypally · July 2014

Faulgor wrote: »

madangrypally wrote: »

They need to make all abilities scale on Max Magicka or Max Stamina depending on whichever one is highest. This is the only real way to fix Stamina builds as most other ways are not feasible or wont solve the underlaying issues.

No, this would kill stamina builds once and for all. If stamina abilities can scale with magicka, there is absolutely zero reason to even attempt a stamina build. You would leave your stamina pool for CC break, dodge, sprint and block, and use magicka for offense. The only thing this would accomplish is that mages can hit just as hard with a 2handed sword without having to change their build.

I disagree. Stamina abilities will still cost Stamina to use and most will still try to acquire Reduce Stamina cost to use them more. Those who stack Magicka will use stamina abilities sparingly due to their Stamina being low and stamina abilities being costly, plus Stamina still being used for CC break, Dodge, Block, stealth, and Sprint.

If I stack stamina on the other hand and have reduced Stamina cost ill have a higher stamina pool to use all my Stamina abilities and they will cost much less. I have less Magicka so I can not use as many Magicka abilities and they will cost more since I do not have magicka reduction gear. Now though I can still use a few Magicka abilities that synergies well with Stamina abilities without them being gimped.

Example:
A Duel Wield Nightblade with a Bow as secondary weapon.
If I stack Magicka ill then be more reliant on abilities that cost Magicka. Ill still be able to use my Duel Wield and Bow Abilities because they scale with Magicka but I wont be able to use them a whole lot because of a low stamina pool and the need to save some for defense.

If I stack Stamina ill then be more reliant on abilities that cost Stamina. Ill still be able to use my class abilities because they scale on Stamina, but I wont be able to use them a whole lot because of a low Magicka pool.

madangrypally · July 2014

@okraus‌

Yes I understand how it works 99.9% of the time. The reason for the OP was that Soul Siphon defies that understanding.

Soul Siphon is an Ultimate Morph in the Night Blade Siphoning Tree. As all other class abilities and their Ultimate's use Spell Damage and Magicka to determine their damage/heal; a person would expect Soul Siphon to follow suit. It does not. Soul Siphon is the only one I have found that uses Weapon Damage and Stamina even though it is a class ability.

For your question:
Stamina can be just as easily soft caped as Magicka can. Sources are similar.
IE:
1: Stat points: 1 stat point = 15 Health, 10 Magicka, or 10 Stamina (only 1 not all 3).

2: Enchants: Health enchants are 50% higher then Magicka and Stamina enchants. Magicka and Stamina enchants are equal.

3: Food: Health, Magicka, and Stamina are of equal value.

4: Jewelry: Health, Magicka, and Stamina are of equal value.

5: Mundus Stone: At VR12 the Stats respective stones each give 100.

6: Set bonuses: Health is normally 50% more then Magicka and Stamina respective set bonuses.

I may be forgetting something but if someone wanted to stack Stamina they can just as easily soft cap it as if someone wanted to stack Magicka instead.

okraus · July 2014

Ok, understood.

As you may have guessed i do not play a Night Blade so i was not aware that Soul Siphon works against the common rules of damage calculation.

Anyway my post was also a reaction to the complaint about stamina builds and the suggestion to set your own main stat by yourself or let it automatically be the highest one.