ESO "The best gear is crafted gear" What a lie

binn05_ESO · July 2014

When I started playing ESO, one of the things that got my attention was crafting.
The ideia that we could create our own equipment and it would be better than the dropped ones was a blessing from the "grind new gear every expansion" .

But now, if the VR revamp what do we get???

Seasonal itens!!!!

Besides the fact that we already have item sets that drops from mobs and from PvP and those can't be crafted, I can only say: "ESO you lied to me, you lied bad!"

We could have rare ingredients or recipes to craft those sets obtainable from Dungeons, instead of the item grind. Because, really, who repeats a dungeon after you got your achievement and skill point?

You could create a real economy in this game Zenimax, but you prefer to apply the grind item patch instead.

To me, this is a huge mistake that will only grow bigger with every season.

What do you guys think?

(Forgive any typos or erros, English is not my native language. Also, feel free to correct me.)

Svann · July 2014

I keep hearing that claim but no one ever cites a direct quote. Got a link to it?

Nox_Aeterna · July 2014

First , they lied many times before with these promises they made about the game like , class on tell you your role , play the way you want ...

Second , wait and see it working , maybe you will be able to craft sesonal gear for example , but with some weird mats or maybe it is something totally different.

DeLindsay · July 2014

adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »

I keep hearing that claim but no one ever cites a direct quote. Got a link to it?

^ This.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

First , they lied many times before with these promises they made about the game like , class on tell you your role , play the way you want ...

Second , wait and see it working , maybe you will be able to craft sesonal gear for example , but with some weird mats or maybe it is something totally different.

You can in FACT play as you want. Sticks and Skirts being OP right now has nothing to do with ZoS's comment about how to play but the tenacity of Humans to find the most ridiculous type of gear/build/rotation to be the highest possible efficiency.

Also, you MUST be a decent to good level Crafter in order to properly utilize the best gear, aka Trial gear that is BoP and must be improved by YOU. To top that off you wear CRAFTED gear of a high quality to GET that Trial gear. In the vast majority of MMO's crafted gear quality stops at a few welfare epics when you hit level cap and even Expert dungeon drops are superior.

Nox_Aeterna · July 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »

I keep hearing that claim but no one ever cites a direct quote. Got a link to it?

^ This.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

First , they lied many times before with these promises they made about the game like , class on tell you your role , play the way you want ...

Second , wait and see it working , maybe you will be able to craft sesonal gear for example , but with some weird mats or maybe it is something totally different.

You can in FACT play as you want. Sticks and Skirts being OP right now has nothing to do with ZoS's comment about how to play but the tenacity of Humans to find the most ridiculous type of gear/build/rotation to be the highest possible efficiency.

Also, you MUST be a decent to good level Crafter in order to properly utilize the best gear, aka Trial gear that is BoP and must be improved by YOU. To top that off you wear CRAFTED gear of a high quality to GET that Trial gear. In the vast majority of MMO's crafted gear quality stops at a few welfare epics when you hit level cap and even Expert dungeon drops are superior.

It is their job to balance the game , which they are horrible at , so until they finally do it , yes , they were lying. Lying because they are too incompetent to keep their words true. That simple.

Also , other MMOs got nothing to do with this one , ESO made a promise that it would be different than others and that the best gear would come from crafting. Which is the problem to the OP.

Right now we dont know how it is going to work for sure , maybe it still is , maybe it is equivalent.

Nazon_Katts · July 2014

http://www.tesoelite.com/forums/threads/live-community-q-a-with-paul-sage-topic-crafting.937/page-11#post-12096

Paul Sage answering the question "Is the gear we create on par with the highest level gear we can get from drops?" with "Yes, or better."

Around that time, there've been multiple instances where it was mentioned that gear created by crafters would be on par or better than drops. That this turned out to be just through the use of tempers on dropped gear is what makes it so disappointing to crafters.

DeLindsay · July 2014

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

http://www.tesoelite.com/forums/threads/live-community-q-a-with-paul-sage-topic-crafting.937/page-11#post-12096

Paul Sage answering the question "Is the gear we create on par with the highest level gear we can get from drops?" with "Yes, or better."

Around that time, there've been multiple instances where it was mentioned that gear created by crafters would be on par or better than drops. That this turned out to be just through the use of tempers on dropped gear is what makes it so disappointing to crafters.

Fair enough but that was also dated March 7th 2014, which is well before Craglorn came out (let alone the game launching) and he was absolutely correct. From launch the best gear was Crafted up until the day 1.2 hit. People didn't really even start using the 3-set PvP gear for the 10% crit until after starting to run Trials and realizing it was Crit > everything else. And since we cannot yet craft Jewelry, the Warlock set (often only worn as 3-pc Jewelry) is moot.

So it still stands ZoS and Paul Sage did not lie in any way. When that comment was made it was 100% truth.

Nazon_Katts · July 2014

Well, that statement still is true. Crafters do create the best/on par gear by tempering drops even today. In a very meticulous interpretation of that statement. But so can anyone else, crafters just do it more efficiently.

What was implied, especially when you consider to which group of players that answer was given, was entirely different. So while it is correct that the statement is true, that people feel lied to is understandable, because even though it may not have been a lie, it's still very misleading at best.

Kangas · July 2014

So OP has run around with a crafted item set, improved to legendary, with legendary rune from an enchanter and judged it inferior to drops? I highly doubt that because that is some kind of awesome.

binn05_ESO · July 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

Sticks and Skirts being OP right now has nothing to do with ZoS's comment about how to play but the tenacity of Humans to find the most ridiculous type of gear/build/rotation to be the highest possible efficiency.

Just to clarify, I'm not debating about sticks and skirts. If people want that kind of min-max, that's with them.

DeLindsay wrote: »

Also, you MUST be a decent to good level Crafter in order to properly utilize the best gear, aka Trial gear that is BoP and must be improved by YOU. To top that off you wear CRAFTED gear of a high quality to GET that Trial gear. In the vast majority of MMO's crafted gear quality stops at a few welfare epics when you hit level cap and even Expert dungeon drops are superior.

Well, that is a problem. When non-crafters have to be crafters, against their will, I consider these a design flaw. That is the curse of bind on pick itens. Which I abhor as well.
Also, I don't care about MMOs. I played them. I care about ESO and how ESO can fullfill their great destiny

DeLindsay wrote: »

Fair enough but that was also dated March 7th 2014, which is well before Craglorn came out (let alone the game launching) and he was absolutely correct. From launch the best gear was Crafted up until the day 1.2 hit. People didn't really even start using the 3-set PvP gear for the 10% crit until after starting to run Trials and realizing it was Crit > everything else. And since we cannot yet craft Jewelry, the Warlock set (often only worn as 3-pc Jewelry) is moot.

So it still stands ZoS and Paul Sage did not lie in any way. When that comment was made it was 100% truth.

I think you're stretching the truth here. If a developer says that their game will have better crafted itens than drop itens, I expect that to be true 3, 4, n... patches after launch.

Kangas wrote: »

So OP has run around with a crafted item set, improved to legendary, with legendary rune from an enchanter and judged it inferior to drops? I highly doubt that because that is some kind of awesome.

That is not the point here, Kangas. The point is crafting as a whole, as in itens sets that can't be crafted or itens that will be complete useless after a season.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · July 2014

Have you looked at the new armor sets we will get soon?:

http://i.imgur.com/BWxp4bq.png

I have an army. It's a long term thing and my Enchanter just leveled 15 and 16. There is hope folks, it gets better faster at this point. I'm half way to 17 already. So in a day or so I will be able to enchant VR1 -VR3 purple glyphs. The 35 - 45 purple set is kinda awesome already.

I can make VR1-VR3 stuff, heavy, medium, light and wood, with my crafter platoon, 6 trait sets are normal now. So I have as my project my VR2 Vampire NB son. We are quite rapidly turning him into a critical machine. He was always an exceptional fighter and now he is starting to get exceptional numbers.

I'm a bit bored with my Red Witch, don't get me wrong she is amazing fun but I have stroked her numbers.

What this means is I can softcap almost any important stat with changes to her costume and when we take into account the level 50 provisioner we can softcap several stats on top of this anytime. It's just not fair.

It's possible a piece of armor, or a weapon, found as loot, might be better in some characteristic, but yes crafting is far more powerful than scavenging.

EDIT: Oh yeah, the potions, my lord. My normal Oh Sh*t potion for my sorc gives:

300 spell critical,
health now and over time,
magic now and over time.

It is pretty nice when the going gets ... flaky.

jesterstear · July 2014

Be careful of what you wish for.

Making crafted items the best is fine, though rare in an MMO, but IMHO the best of the best endgame stuff should be bound to account.

When Lord of the Rings online first came out, the best gear in game was crafted, so in order to not have everyone running around in it, they made the crafting level up process extremely long , and made the top tier items require super rare components (shards).

As a result, you couldn't wear items crafted for your own character when levelling, as it took two or three times as long to level the crafting as it took to level your own character - at level 35, you could only craft white quality level 20 armour etc. And the best gear, the Etched Beryl jewellery and Mirrored Ancient armour, sold for vast sums on the AH. When I hit the level cap, I spent months grinding trash mobs trying to earn the gold to buy this stuff so I could get accepted in raids (otherwise it was a case of , go away, we only take people in all blue items). Not surprisingly, bots and gold sellers were everywhere. I wasn't a bot, but I might as well have been. I clocked up 100 hours killing level 33 brigands in Dwaling to earn enough gold to buy one Mirrored Ancient armour piece (my tank having abysmal dps, didn't help I suppose). After six months I finally broke and bought gold online, so I could get my remaining 2 pieces of armour and jewellery. A vacancy had come up for a tank in our guild's raid team when the one they were using up till then quit the game, but they only wanted someone equipped in "blue gear".

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · July 2014

jesterstear wrote: »

After six months I finally broke and bought gold online, so I could get my remaining 2 pieces of armour and jewellery. A vacancy had come up for a tank in our guild's raid team when the one they were using up till then quit the game, but they only wanted someone equipped in "blue gear".

You cheated in order to be accepted? Sad, very sad.

I take it you weren't one of those round here complaining about gold sellers then.

Nestor · July 2014

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

It's possible a piece of armor, or a weapon, found as loot, might be better in some characteristic, but yes crafting is far more powerful than scavenging.

I am in the habit of making a set of armor each 4 character levels (or there abouts). I usually immediately improve it to Green. This gives me better stats than almost anything I find for the next 4 levels. Once I start finding things better than what I made, I will use the new gear. However it does take gaining two or three levels before that happens. I even find that stuff I get as rewards leveled above me are not as good as what I make.

Just this morning I made a full set of Ebony for my soon to be L46 DK and expect that to keep him going until L50, if not I will improve or make some more.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · July 2014

Nestor wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

It's possible a piece of armor, or a weapon, found as loot, might be better in some characteristic, but yes crafting is far more powerful than scavenging.

I am in the habit of making a set of armor each 4 character levels (or there abouts). I usually immediately improve it to Green. This gives me better stats than almost anything I find for the next 4 levels. Once I start finding things better than what I made, I will use the new gear. However it does take gaining two or three levels before that happens. I even find that stuff I get as rewards leveled above me are not as good as what I make.

Just this morning I made a full set of Ebony for my soon to be L46 DK and expect that to keep him going until L50, if not I will improve or make some more.

As my enchanter improves I find armor means less. I can soft cap my witch in light armor just with some bling. I still make and enchant all my armor and my fighters get new sets, usually 3 and 5, every 2nd level usually. I do have all 8 slots in play though so my army is pretty big. My provisioner is crucial and makes a big difference. You can change the numbers around a lot in this game.

I must admit most of my time goes into arranging my army, but when my fighters go out they do very well. My level 38 vampire witch can now solo 8 man groups with confidence. Crushed Vile Manse with one other sorc who just happened to show up. I was doing OK, but it's tough by yourself. Hilarious when we both dropped 'big sparky' on the main boss. Boy he went down fast.

Nazon_Katts · July 2014

Have a look at this: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/118944/1-3-0-armor-and-weapon-sets/p1

Crafted sets are ok. But dropped sets always seem to be tailored made for the specific roles. Crafted sets make me go: "yeah, that'll work". Dropped sets on the other hand are a case of "hell yeah!"

I'm always choosing dropped over crafted set bonuses, because that's where the true power of items lies and crafted sets ain't on par with what drops can give.

So crafting's yet again just providing leveling gear and entry-level gear hunting sets, just like most theme-park games out there. After that, you're only needed to improve drops.

And that just doesn't seem to be much in line with what was advertised.

Mauz · July 2014

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

So crafting's yet again just providing leveling gear and entry-level gear hunting sets, just like most theme-park games out there. After that, you're only needed to improve drops.

But I as a former elder scrolls series player and everybody else of my playergroup I know bought this game exactly for the reason that it was advertised not to be like most theme-park games out there...

As long as the balance of crafted and drop items remains like it is I wouldn't complain. But if again like in most theme-park games out there players getting seal clubbed in PvP only because they dont participate in organized raids I would ask myself why I shouldn't switch to one of these alternatives which is less bugged, more balanced, more mature regarding features and last but not least f2p

In summary I find it the wrong way to make eso more and more a bad copy of the already existing crap out there.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · July 2014

I'm not impressed by the pick up sets. All I need is crit. I can add anything I like to any armor set already as my Enchanter is quite strong.

The good crit sets are what I make now for my and my son's chars. Adding whatever enchantment to that is normal and is done to whatever need we might have at the time.

Looking forward to the new stuff. Most of the useless sets are gone.

Soulshine · July 2014

As someone who spent nigh over two months to max out enchanting and clothing both, these days I think that it was largely a waste of time. Most of the playing I like to do revolves around dungeons anyway, and the drops from those areas are far better than anything that can be crafted, mainly because the set bonuses from crafting are a joke in comparison.

Had I known going into the game that all I needed were tempers to improve drops, I would not have spent the time to level the two crafts I did since there are other things far more useful to me now like alchemy and cooking for what I want to do in game.

And btw, the "revamp" promised to echanters was total B S, lol. It's just as much of a pain as before to find the runes you want and, again, bonus enchantments on dropped items have made crafting glyphs fairly irrelevant, sadly.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · July 2014

Soulshine wrote: »

As someone who spent nigh over two months to max out enchanting and clothing both, these days I think that it was largely a waste of time. Most of the playing I like to do revolves around dungeons anyway, and the drops from those areas are far better than anything that can be crafted, mainly because the set bonuses from crafting are a joke in comparison.

Had I known going into the game that all I needed were tempers to improve drops, I would not have spent the time to level the two crafts I did since there are other things far more useful to me now like alchemy and cooking for what I want to do in game.

And btw, the "revamp" promised to echanters was total B S, lol. It's just as much of a pain as before to find the runes you want and, again, bonus enchantments on dropped items have made crafting glyphs fairly irrelevant, sadly.

Well you chose to level the most glacial craft in the game. Provisioning is very easy to level. Alchemy too is not hard at all to level and almost as useful as provisioning. You have a powerful craft there if you have maxed out enchanting.

I am baffled as to why people make claims like that the dropped sets are so much better. What am I missing? I can see the numbers too.

Soulshine · July 2014

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

As someone who spent nigh over two months to max out enchanting and clothing both, these days I think that it was largely a waste of time. Most of the playing I like to do revolves around dungeons anyway, and the drops from those areas are far better than anything that can be crafted, mainly because the set bonuses from crafting are a joke in comparison.

Had I known going into the game that all I needed were tempers to improve drops, I would not have spent the time to level the two crafts I did since there are other things far more useful to me now like alchemy and cooking for what I want to do in game.

And btw, the "revamp" promised to echanters was total B S, lol. It's just as much of a pain as before to find the runes you want and, again, bonus enchantments on dropped items have made crafting glyphs fairly irrelevant, sadly.

Well you chose to level the most glacial craft in the game. Provisioning is very easy to level. Alchemy too is not hard at all to level and almost as useful as provisioning. You have a powerful craft there if you have maxed out enchanting.

I am baffled as to why people make claims like that the dropped sets are so much better. What am I missing? I can see the numbers too.

I chose to level what I thought would be most useful - and I had no way of knowing it was a "glacial" craft at the time so blaming me for that is a bit silly. As far as the dropped sets, for my build their bonues and features work far better than I could craft.

Chalybos · July 2014

I have to agree with Soulshine, regarding the knowledge (or more important, the lack thereof) that Enchanting would be the most time consuming, with the rarest available materials. It's the one trade that is lagging behind for me, and that's particularly frustrating. 3 Blacksmiths, 3 Clothiers, 3 Woodworkers, 1 Alchemist, 1 Provisioner, and 2 Enchanters (one feeding the other lower one on breakdowns). Levelling the other skills to remain above character level was easy, except for the Enchanter. Even trying to recover those damnable Aspect runes by shredding them doesn't offset their rarity.

Sorry, just wanted to let Soulshine know they weren't alone in that.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · July 2014

I was not blaming you. Admire is closer. My Enchanter is level 17, he's leveling faster now but hey. At level 17 I can make purple glyphs and 35 -45 stuff. It's actually quite powerful. Hang 330 armor on a ring.

My provisioner has been maxed out for quite a while and my Alchemy is 30 or so. Provisioning as you have discovered can alter the numbers a lot. I have a Consummate Sweetroll recipe that piles nearly 300 on all 3 stats for 2 hours. That's a VR5 one so we have not used it yet, my VR2 son found it. I have a lot of blue, 2 stat 1 hour ones, we both use all the time.

My Alchemist keeps me in very nice potions. My normal OhSh*t potion gives 300 spell critical and health and magic. It's nice and has saved my ass a few times.

Nazon_Katts · July 2014

@poodlemasterb16_ESO Congratz to your son, he found the probably rarest item in the game!

poodlemasterb16_ESO · July 2014

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

@poodlemasterb16_ESO Congratz to your son, he found the probably rarest item in the game!

I know. I told him he has paid for all the armor, weapons etc etc, I can make him for a very long time.

I made 40 and split the stack in half and we both have 20 now. I can make a pile more, I have been hording, and I know where most of the grocers are. Just found the one at Dune. Small but good stuff.

jesterstear · July 2014

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

jesterstear wrote: »

After six months I finally broke and bought gold online, so I could get my remaining 2 pieces of armour and jewellery. A vacancy had come up for a tank in our guild's raid team when the one they were using up till then quit the game, but they only wanted someone equipped in "blue gear".

You cheated in order to be accepted? Sad, very sad.

I take it you weren't one of those round here complaining about gold sellers then.

I did wrong. I take it you've never made a mistake like that? I take it if you had you'd admit it?

This was my first MMO.

I was obsessed, because I love all things middle earth. I desperately wanted my character to be considered worthy.

I had already spent two or three hundred mind numbing hours killing mobs trying to grind the cash myself.

It was six years ago.

No , I would never buy gold again. If ESO ever put me in a similar position, i'd just cancel my sub.

How long are you intending to punish me for?

Why don't you just tag every forum post I make with "the poster above is Scum"?

kijima · July 2014

You did what you had to do, I'm not judging you. Not everyone will either.

I've chosen not to buy gold and I've stayed true to that, plus in later levels Gold is easy enough to come by.

BrassRazoo · July 2014

Just take a look at the 8 Trait crafted sets.
I don't think they really care about dedicated crafters all that much.

MrGhosty · July 2014

As the crafts stand now I only have a few issues with their implementation, One of the aspects I loved about Skyrim enchanting was finally earning the points to add double enchants to things, this sort of "stacking" should be possible in a craft line once it has been maxed as a reward for being dedicated to a particular craft. I was completely let down the first time I completed my 8th trait on on the bow and nothing changed, yes when I get the other stuff researched to that level I'll be able to access the higher set bonuses but none of them really stand out for me.

When the game started out there was a good game of selling items you crafted and people being needed to craft certain stuff but lately I've seen those sort of calls die down completely.

I would like to see a system in the vein of the new spellcrafting where you chose a base set (say ashen grip) and then can alter it's basic functionality or choose to combine it with another set bonus. I'm sure there would need to be balances made but being able to stack set bonuses would give crafters a much need boost, imo.

On the flipside, I don't want to the dropped sets to be devalued for the sake of making crafted the best, They should be equal. You can pay gold to have a crafter make it now, or you can put in the grind time to collect it yourself. Every set should be craftable, even if you have to acquire a "focus stone" or some other rare item to keep the sets in line with dropped availability. I don't expect special treatment because I prefer to play the game a particular way, but I also don't want to be penalized or marginalized because the real bread and butter of the game is hidden behind a PvP or PvE grind barrier.

Nazon_Katts · July 2014

A simple solution would be synergies between crafted and dropped. Always make three parts of a set available through whatever your preferred means may be, but let the last two that unlock power come from the other. Problem solved, no need for competition between drops and crafted, only together they're truly strong.