Collateral Damage - Set Changes

Snit · July 2014

Collateral Damage.

I'm a caster, and I've managed to cobble up a full set of legendary gear. Much of it will be useless due to these changes. In particular, Willow's Path is no longer a caster set.

I don't have the time or the money to remake this in another set so soon. I wish ZOS had figured a way not to change caster sets into non-caster sets.

We all expect to replace gear eventually. But this is awfully soon, and changing the basic character of sets is particularly galling.

Larira · July 2014

Colateral damage #2 are healers. The set changes affect them too.

Greetings

heyguyslol · July 2014

Yep for a lot of us casters who are vr12 we are being forced to either A. rebuild our entire set costing about 200k for just 1 single set or B. Quit the game. I guess if u buy gold then 200k would not be that hard for a player to rebuild/start over from scratch but some of us do play legitimately and it would take weeks/months to rebuild our sets only to maybe have them pull this same sh!t a few more months down the line. It's a given that our gear will be replaced at some point but it is usually done over time (say in a matter of weeks or months) and piece by piece but to change gear as they plan is basically like hitting a reset switch as if we were playing the beta.

Not acceptable at all.

dafraorb16_ESO · July 2014

yeah it's not acceptable that people crying for the equip when it's very easy to farm materials

Maverick827 · July 2014

dafraorb16_ESO wrote: »

yeah it's not acceptable that people crying for the equip when it's very easy to farm materials

If it's so easy to farm materials, please mail me 112 Dreugh Wax, 24 Rosin, and 8 Tempered Alloy for my two sets of gear.

Thanks in advance.

heyguyslol · July 2014

dafraorb16_ESO wrote: »

yeah it's not acceptable that people crying for the equip when it's very easy to farm materials

Since it's so easy to farm mats then maybe you can add me to the list and mail me the following mats that I need for all my sets:

224 wax
40 kuta
48 rosin

thx in advanced too.

Snit · July 2014

Looking deeper, the two most popular crafted sets for casters have been totally wiped out. Willow's Path and Twilight's Embrace are likely the most common set for VR12 casters. I craft, and I know those are what people ask for. Both sets have been eviscerated. Nobody will wear them now.

Replacing spell crit with Health and Health Recovery is an unfortunate decision, as almost nobody focused on spell crit will have much use for the new stats. The very nature of the sets has changed.

Snit · July 2014

dafraorb16_ESO wrote: »

yeah it's not acceptable that people crying for the equip when it's very easy to farm materials

If you've found an 'easy' method to farm legendary upgrade materials, please share.

The only means I can think of is multiple accounts with many maxed crafting alts. That's not my idea of riveting gameplay.

Xsorus · July 2014

Snit wrote: »

dafraorb16_ESO wrote: »

yeah it's not acceptable that people crying for the equip when it's very easy to farm materials

If you've found an 'easy' method to farm legendary upgrade materials, please share.

The only means I can think of is multiple accounts with many maxed crafting alts. That's not my idea of riveting gameplay.

If you're DC, you could of farmed Wolves in the first Ebonheart city's public dungeon.

I have like over a 100 wax left

Maverick827 · July 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

dafraorb16_ESO wrote: »

yeah it's not acceptable that people crying for the equip when it's very easy to farm materials

If you've found an 'easy' method to farm legendary upgrade materials, please share.

The only means I can think of is multiple accounts with many maxed crafting alts. That's not my idea of riveting gameplay.

If you're DC, you could of farmed Wolves in the first Ebonheart city's public dungeon.

I have like over a 100 wax left

That's still not "easy," at least not in the context of making up for lost gear. What about the wasted Kuta? What if you don't wear light/medium armor?

Xsorus · July 2014

Maverick827 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

dafraorb16_ESO wrote: »

yeah it's not acceptable that people crying for the equip when it's very easy to farm materials

If you've found an 'easy' method to farm legendary upgrade materials, please share.

The only means I can think of is multiple accounts with many maxed crafting alts. That's not my idea of riveting gameplay.

If you're DC, you could of farmed Wolves in the first Ebonheart city's public dungeon.

I have like over a 100 wax left

That's still not "easy," at least not in the context of making up for lost gear. What about the wasted Kuta? What if you don't wear light/medium armor?

Honestly, there is little reason to use legendary enchants....As someone who broke apart his Legendary Equipment before when they upped the 5 sets because it served no use anymore...I pretty much found out Blue's worked ok enough.

As for Wearing Heavy, did you honestly make a full Heavy Setup (I did 5 Heavy to give you an idea) of Willows and Twilight.. or you just using it as an excuse to whine?

Maverick827 · July 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Honestly, there is little reason to use legendary enchants....As someone who broke apart his Legendary Equipment before when they upped the 5 sets because it served no use anymore...I pretty much found out Blue's worked ok enough.

There's little reason to use legendary enchants to you.

As for Wearing Heavy, did you honestly make a full Heavy Setup (I did 5 Heavy to give you an idea) of Willows and Twilight.. or you just using it as an excuse to whine?

Ah, the old "call something that isn't whining 'whining' because I disagree with it but can't construct an argument against it" tactic. Bravo.

Doskias · July 2014

I think people are missing the point of the people this is greatly affecting. This problem isnt that Better gear is coming out and they are going to have to replace what they are wearing. The problem is, what they are wearing will not even remotely be usable for the original use of the original set bonuses. Completely going in another direction with the changes. If the new set bonuses replaces the old gear then what they are wear will not benefit them. With that said they are forced to redo their whole armor set not because something came out better, but because what they were wearing is now not inline with what it originally was. Changing a set from build A to another Build B and almost every one that was build A now is broken. This is the problem. If they would have made those same sets magika and spell damage or something that had it staying within the same build it wouldnt be that game changing.

Snit · July 2014

Doskias wrote: »

If they would have made those same sets magika and spell damage or something that had it staying within the same build it wouldnt be that game changing.

Exactly. They took DPS/ Heal gear and turned it into tanking kit.

I like the overall direction they are taking. But there's no reason to screw people up so badly with some of these changes.

Xsorus · July 2014

Maverick827 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Honestly, there is little reason to use legendary enchants....As someone who broke apart his Legendary Equipment before when they upped the 5 sets because it served no use anymore...I pretty much found out Blue's worked ok enough.

There's little reason to use legendary enchants to you.

there is pretty much little reason to use a legendary enchant period...The gains aren't great enough to warrant the cost, certainly not enough to warrant demanding a full refund

As for Wearing Heavy, did you honestly make a full Heavy Setup (I did 5 Heavy to give you an idea) of Willows and Twilight.. or you just using it as an excuse to whine?

Ah, the old "call something that isn't whining 'whining' because I disagree with it but can't construct an argument against it" tactic. Bravo.

And yet, you still managed not to answer the question.

Did you actually make a Full Heavy Setup?

Maverick827 · July 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

And yet, you still managed not to answer the question.

Did you actually make a Full Heavy Setup?

No, but that does not matter. I am not concerned with just myself because I am not selfish like that. I am concerned with problems everyone might run in to. I don't even have any legendary items, but I feel sorry for and support the people who do.

Xsorus · July 2014

Maverick827 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

And yet, you still managed not to answer the question.

Did you actually make a Full Heavy Setup?

No, but that does not matter. I am not concerned with just myself because I am not selfish like that. I am concerned with problems everyone might run in to. I don't even have any legendary items, but I feel sorry for and support the people who do.

Except, you kind of are concerned with yourself, Cause you keep demanding they refund you all your materials because you lost a bit of Crit Chance.

oh also

"If it's so easy to farm materials, please mail me 112 Dreugh Wax, 24 Rosin, and 8 Tempered Alloy for my two sets of gear."

Why did you request this?

Snit · July 2014

Ironically, if someone had made a set of heavy willow's, it would be potentially useful. It's basically a tanking set now.

Light Willows? You now hope you get one of those eight dreugh waxes back when you deconstruct it.

Maverick827 · July 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

]Except, you kind of are concerned with yourself, Cause you keep demanding they refund you all your materials because you lost a bit of Crit Chance.

I have never demanded this. My gear right now is VR3 blue, I'm VR5. I obviously need to craft some new stuff, this actually doesn't impact me at all. I don't even know anyone personally that it does impact. But I do know that it does impact people, and it's really terrible for them, and I know in the same position I would be very upset. So I advocate for them.

"If it's so easy to farm materials, please mail me 112 Dreugh Wax, 24 Rosin, and 8 Tempered Alloy for my two sets of gear."

It was a rhetorical request to accentuate a point.

Mumyo · July 2014

I really like the changes of the sets!
Great ideas and i think its some nice new things to try and i see way more opportunity to get certain builds.

Mumyo · July 2014

Btw. pls dont forget to calculate what u get when u destroy ur sets. maybe its not that hard of a impact for you.

Dominoid · July 2014

I agree these are drastic changes and there should be some form of higher than usual probability of getting mats back upon deconstructing for a week or two after launch, but . . . won't your sets be valuable to sell for those at now applies to? I'm not up on what's bound and what isn't. Maybe they unbind all gear for a period of time.

Just thinking out loud.

Snit · July 2014

Mumyo wrote: »

Btw. pls dont forget to calculate what u get when u destroy ur sets. maybe its not that hard of a impact for you.

A legendary piece takes 8 legendary upgrade pieces for a 100% chance. Market value is about 2.5k apiece, or 20k. There are also four purple and three blue pieces involved, for a total of about 22k in materials.

The best possible deconstruction result is getting back one legendary material. So, your loss per piece will vary between 22k and 19.5k. I think we can safely forget that

Snit · July 2014

Mumyo wrote: »

I really like the changes of the sets!
Great ideas and i think its some nice new things to try and i see way more opportunity to get certain builds.

I like the overall changes, too. More options, and more options for stamina builds will make the game more interesting. However, I wish they could manage this without taking the two most popular caster sets and changing them into tanking sets.

When 3.0 hits, all the casters out there in Willows/ Twilight have to redo their entire gearset. If it's all legendary, that's a 200k penalty. I like seeing the game improve. I'm not happy with gear-wipes for some players to accomplish it.

Magdalina · July 2014

*shrugs* I'm reserving my general opinion on new sets until I see 8-traits ones - maybe those will have something "WOW COOL" which they lack now. But some bonuses sure seem interesting, especially for stamina users.
The way they changed stuff though... I can see why people would be unhappy(fortunately, won't concern my char because I haven't made my uber vet 12 armor yet, I'll just wait with it til the update is live now), but this seems the way ZOS does things - they're still rebalancing the game(which is good seeing how unbalanced it still is) and they do so majorly, in big steps completely changing things with no regard for players who have already gotten used to having things the certain way. The way things have been til now, I don't see this changing, so it's take it or leave it. Accept that the game might completely overhauld your char/set/abilities tomorrow or just quit the game. I've decided I love the game so I'll carefully stick around=)

On a side note, is the difference between blue and gold armor/weapon actually any noticeable? I mean, obviously it's cool to have legendary stuff, but from practical point of view, the difference in armor/trait bonus is like several %...I wouldn't call that a must-have.

JackDaniell · July 2014

Well, lets try to look at the positive. Willows path is probably one of if not the best set in the game in 1.3. It just shouts sustain, and huge amounts of it. If you made yourself a 5 light set of it you will defiantly find use for it. Here is an example of what 1.3 willows will do.

Magicka regen with 5 light ~108

(108 + 10) x 1.15 = 135.7 magicka regen with willows set. (note. This is what a white willows patch set will give you. A gold will probably give you ~10-15 more magicka regen)

135.7 x 30 = 4071 magicka regenerated in 1 minute.

Compare this to warlocks set:

108 x 30 magicka regen + 800 (assuming you have 2400 magicka) = 4040 magicka regen in 1 minute.

What does this mean? Willows path gives you MORE magicka regen then warlock set does, and gives you bonus health and stamina regen as well.

This makes this set arguably the most sustainable set for any build in the game.

So yes, twilights is almost garbage now, but hold on to that willows set. Its still gold

As a Templar I plan to run willows with restoring aura, this will soft cap my magicka and stamina regen at around 150

Now that is what I call sustainability!

Mumyo · July 2014

I thought twilights is good the new way

MeowGinger · July 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

dafraorb16_ESO wrote: »

yeah it's not acceptable that people crying for the equip when it's very easy to farm materials

If you've found an 'easy' method to farm legendary upgrade materials, please share.

The only means I can think of is multiple accounts with many maxed crafting alts. That's not my idea of riveting gameplay.

If you're DC, you could of farmed Wolves in the first Ebonheart city's public dungeon.

I have like over a 100 wax left

Exactly when did Crow's Wood give you legendary tempers? Last I checked, gold gear doesn't drop in game. The only way you'd be getting legendary improvement materials is by refining raw materials.

If you got 1 dreugh wax every time you refined topgrain/ironhide (which you don't), you'd need more than ten stacks of it, if what you say is true.

So farming in Crow's Wood only gave you improvement materials for light or medium armor -- no weapons, no heavy armor.

Also, Crow's Wood was nerfed.

Willow's Path doesn't seem all that sustainable (why was stamina recovery even necessary there???)... even if it would give >4000 magicka regen per minute (assuming you wear light armor, which I avoid like the plague), I have a hard time believing this is sustainable. I haven't tested it myself, but it wouldn't help for short fights (which are much, much shorter than a minute). And it wouldn't help with regen outside of combat, so if you're short on magicka after a fight, you'd still wait to recharge before moving on. And in really long fights (group dungeons? trials?), you'd still run out of magicka long before the one-minute mark. It would still take 2-3 ticks for you to be able to use an ability; the costs would still far outweigh the regen. So I don't really see the point. I'd rather have the instant magicka replenishment, which can be a lifesaver in certain fights. I was (am) advocating for templar magicka regen and sustainability, but this is not what I was going for.

With the switch, this makes my Willow's Path/Warlock/Magnus heavy set as it is entirely useless to me. Most of the 2, 3, and 4-item bonuses aren't even worth it now, and the set bonuses are now all over the place (Willow's Path... wtf happened there with the unnecessary recovery? and I'd rather take 20% in daytime combat rather than 15% in combat at any time). I can't support these changes.

JackDaniell · July 2014

MeowGinger wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Willow's Path doesn't seem all that sustainable (why was stamina recovery even necessary there???)... even if it would give >4000 magicka regen per minute (assuming you wear light armor, which I avoid like the plague), I have a hard time believing this is sustainable. I haven't tested it myself, but it wouldn't help for short fights (which are much, much shorter than a minute). And it wouldn't help with regen outside of combat, so if you're short on magicka after a fight, you'd still wait to recharge before moving on. And in really long fights (group dungeons? trials?), you'd still run out of magicka long before the one-minute mark. It would still take 2-3 ticks for you to be able to use an ability; the costs would still far outweigh the regen. So I don't really see the point. I'd rather have the instant magicka replenishment, which can be a lifesaver in certain fights. I was (am) advocating for templar magicka regen and sustainability, but this is not what I was going for.

With the switch, this makes my Willow's Path/Warlock/Magnus heavy set as it is entirely useless to me. Most of the 2, 3, and 4-item bonuses aren't even worth it now, and the set bonuses are now all over the place (Willow's Path... wtf happened there with the unnecessary recovery? and I'd rather take 20% in daytime combat rather than 15% in combat at any time). I can't support these changes.

If you fail to see why this buff to regen can be so beneficial, and why stamina is important then perhaps this is a discussion outside of your expertise. As an active PvP player and theory crafter I can assure you this set will be very good.

In short terms: Willows patch = warlock for magicka sustain while also providing a large boost to health and stamina sustain.

In combat regen is also much more beneficial than increased regen during the daytime. If you have ever PvP'd then you would also know that you rarely exit combat because of how the combat detection system works.

The only time I would prefer the burst regen that warlock can give over the better all around sustain that willows will offer is if I want to run a gank build. And gank builds are good at that, but if the fight drags out they do not perform well at all. When out of combat you will regen recources at 2x your in combat rate (or at 1.87x when using willows) and this rating is still better than what warlock will offer you.

As for sustained fights I'm not sure what your point is, willows is clearly shown to out sustain warlock long term. And good recourse management is key to winning any sustained fight, not relying on your warlock set to proc.

What they are doing to combat in 1.3 is going to change how builds and sustain work in this game. When the change comes this will be very evident to people once they play it. Hang onto this set, even in heavy armour it will be very useful for you.

Kiljaz · July 2014

Dominoid wrote: »

I agree these are drastic changes and there should be some form of higher than usual probability of getting mats back upon deconstructing for a week or two after launch, but . . . won't your sets be valuable to sell for those at now applies to? I'm not up on what's bound and what isn't. Maybe they unbind all gear for a period of time.

Just thinking out loud.

You can't sell a crafted set that you've equipped. It becomes bound.