Forward Camp abuse is causing problems

Rylana · July 2014

Specifically, the ability currently to send one guy to the other side of the map and drop a camp to instantly spawn 20 other guys that just suicided somewhere.

It pretty much makes the entire transit strategy aspect of the PvP map obsolete, and it makes for some pretty silly unlimited respawn scenarios on defended keeps.

Isnt a siege of a keep a war of attrition where despite defenders having an advantage in terms of having high ground and being protected from most damage, losing people slowly over time was the intention to eventually take a keep.

Cut off the resources, cut off reinforcements, and it worked just fine until camps were fixed.

Now, you can instantly respawn all of your losses, and even get reinforcements from anywhere just by placing a camp inside of defended walls.

Does anyone else see the sheer stupidity in this? We might as well just be able to pay a couple thousand AP at the spawn area to instantly arrive anywhere on the map as it stands now.

Discuss

Also @ZOS_JessicaFolsom - Any word from development regarding this issue? This cant be an intended thing, since the object of resources and transitus was to cut keeps off.

dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO · July 2014

One fix would be that you have to be inside the circle to rezz at a forward camp

runagate · July 2014

All game mechanics presented to players will be used in ways never intended, and oftentimes we'll completely ignore things that work as intended as completely irrelevant.

Given that I'm one of the few people I know that will ride directly across the entire map at the drop of a hat

It doesn't change things that much:

What it really comes down to is that the X number of players who could just as easily also ride across the map will be doing something else for the Y amount of time it takes to ride there... which is seriously not even 5 minutes (not sure how long it take on average, as I've had a 48k horse for quite some time - in Cyrodiil, it's the best gold investment you could make - well, that and feeding it apples every day).

That works both ways, BTW, so if you're getting sieged, and the attackers have a nearby transit line open but you don't, they can basically ride to their nearest controlled keep, fast travel, and then ride up to the next target, whereas you'd have to all ride all the way there.

aksyong · July 2014

I agree. Speed-porting via forward camps is not how AvA is supposed to be. Blood-gating to non-starburst keeps, yes. Blood-gating to starburst keeps with Forward Camps, NO.

Junipus · July 2014

You're all assuming that it's not how AvA is meant to be, without actually considering that everyone plays it different.

Many times I've been grateful there's a forward camp in the keep I'm defending, just as often as I'm annoyed when there's an endless stream of defenders when attacking a keep.

Keep siege doesn't need to be a war of attrition. I've seen plenty of well organised guilds of 10-20 take keeps with defenders 3 times their number, not including NPCs. If you can do things logically and organised then expecting attrition is only going to get you killed.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · July 2014

If they make it to where your corpse has to be inside the forward camp area then this particular issue wouldn't happen.

It is pretty stupid to be able to die on one side of the map and respawn on the other, just because of a FC. We should have to at least be close enough to the FC to do so.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO · July 2014

I got accused a number of times by a member of one of those elite emp farming guilds of 'not reading the forums' and 'only seeing in black and white' but I don't have to read forums. I witnessed shameful mechanics first hand. In the first couple of weeks I witnessed appalling things among which was the pre-positioned network of camps established all over the map. Their purpose initially escaped me until I witnessed this guild suiciding into guards or using the kill command after stripping down, so they could then respawn clear across the map to begin the next stage of their assault.

Ironically early reviews that condemned ESO as a 'cheap money-grab trying to ride the MMO wave' praised the Cyrodiil PVP/AVA as its one saving grace, but things have deteriorated so badly. Cyrodiil is supposed to be a big sprawling landscape, of which the portion available to us now is actually just a third of the province itself. Instead of these big armies charging around on horseback or using the transitus network, they're cheesing mechanics to get things done quicker and easier. I used to be a avid SCII tournament fan, and people always describe cheesing as 'part of the game' but it turns matches boring real fast and I ultimately got disgusted with it. I and probably hundreds if not thousands of others don't want to be forced to stop playing in Cyro because we get disgusted with it. Many have and more are on their way out.

Making respawns available only in a certain radius would go a long ways to helping things, and either make camps unusable INSIDE keep walls or allow players to respawn at the keep except add a diminishing return, such as the time increases incrementally each time you die. Say 10 seconds first death, 30, 60 etc. (Aetherius has a hard time keeping up with so many requests).

Manoekin · July 2014

I think it adds a cool element to the game, and keep siege/defense would be far too easy if you took it away.

Morticielle · July 2014

dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO wrote: »

One fix would be that you have to be inside the circle to rezz at a forward camp

I agree!

Armitas · July 2014

Beside the camp issue but along the same lines is the ability to travel to any keep regardless of resources or transition routes after death by faction NPC. The only restriction is if the keep is in combat.

Transition routes and 3 capped resources are basically meaningless due to precamps and death respawning.

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO · July 2014

I said this in beta and some ppl said they should listen to me but no they kept them in. They listened to the ppl complaining that it would take to long to get back into battle....but that's why death should mean something but it doesn't with this system.

Animus0724 · July 2014

Even though I have abused this mechanic myself, I would like to see it balanced out as this does kill the feeling of siege warfare.

One way would be to implement a cooldown between when camps can be placed, and you must be in the circle of influence before you can spawn at the camp. And shrink the circle.

Also make it so camps can not be placed inside the walls of a keep this way attackers do not have to deal with endless waves of defenders as the defenders already have the advantage of walls, higher ground and NPCs to back them up.