What you learn from duels....

Frinkles · June 2014

First TLDR: Finally after 50 levels and 12 VR levels, I discovered how OP sorcs are or rather how incredibly gimpy dual wielding is...

So first about me, I play a light armor dual wielding Nightblade I am VR12, and from a struck of luck I found today while wondering around a sorc that would actually duel me, and it was the most eye opening experience I've had in this game... My bars:

http://esocalc.com/#1-6b7000000000:1121:14:12:1206:18:129:12:130:11:16:117:121:11:197:12-448:127:403:121:125:341:333:545:547:402:409:370

I am also capped in Spell resist and HP. Now somethings about him.. He was a sorc using resto staff. (Yea.. a healer, but I wouldnt be complaining if it was just me being unable to kill a healer) and He rolled with the standard sorc combo, curse+crystal+mage wrath, while healing with his off hand. Somethings I noticed....

1st. If you aren't holding guard while in the open, AT ALL TIMES! You will get one shotted by the first crystal combo that hits you. That is crystal-> Curse explosion ->Crystal ->Mage Wrath
2nd. Healers can easily heal through my opener, and sustain. Ambush->Concealed weapon is almost nothing.
3rd. If he held his guard up I almost couldn't do any damage, I could block all I wanted and still he would kill me just as fast....
4th. Even when I did block all crystals being thrown at me I would still find myself out of magicka alot faster than he! (I would switch to the sustain with my bow in this case and cc with fear)

It was an uphill battle each time and I did get him twice... but it was almost pure luck by then... Am I doing something incredibly wrong? Don't say "Well you are playing with DW!"

My own criticism: My bow bar I have mostly neglected, but I have the strange feeling it could have been a game changer to have venomous arrow instead of volcanic rune. Also I did change off from reaper's mark, it ended up just getting me killed and ruining my stealth opener, I did switched it with killer's blade although I never used it. The 2 times I did kill him were with the Assy ulti Incapacitating Strike, only problem with that is I don't know which other siphoning skill to replace mark for 8% magicka.

Well Thank you, Hopefully someone will respond to this >.<

EDIT* And for the people that will think "1v1s don't matter!" Well... for a single target assassin 1v1 is all there is!

CapuchinSeven · June 2014

What's your armour type? Unless I missed that in the text...

Oh wait, I see it on your build link. Full light.

Obscure · June 2014

Matter of skill vs skill IMO in any 1v1, however I will confess whenever I get into a 1v1 with a NB if they don't have enough burst to take me out in one suprise stealth opener rotation they do not have what it takes to threaten me at all. As a Dragonknight I can shrug it off, burn them down, and walk away with the win even when being jumped by a Nightblade. Templar fights go pretty much the same way.

When it comes to Sorcs however, a skilled Sorc player has some seriously devious tricks that often result in giving me some serious trouble. Namely the exact skill rotation you mention shard+curse+fury. The lower my health the stronger they get, and it threatens me vastly more than any Nightblade I've ever gotten in a 1v1 with. I'd say my odds of winning against skilled Sorcs has improved, however there are still several names out there in Cyrodiil I avoid engaging unless I have them out numbered. 1v1 against them is basically suicide. Though it has a great deal to do with my build's vulnerability and their skill and ability to exploit that vulnerability. No Dragonknight, Templar, or Nightblade has the class skills to exploit that vulnerability, Sorcs do: hard hitting non-projectile attacks.

Against a Sorc that knows curse ignores block for application and is not damage reduced by block, he'll keep that up, kite, and then it's just a matter of time until I leave myself open for an instant cast Shard chased by a Mage Fury execute for huge disintegrate damage. In the burst damage game there's really nothing better than a LA resto/destro Sorc, and the skilled players of the build are in a league of their own. My advice is to remember the names and keep your distance from them if possible...unless he's alone...with his map open... and you have friends with you...and he's not within 10 bolt escapes of a keep door.

Overpowered? I can't say for sure. Only the skilled Sorcs give me trouble in a 1v1, and I presume it's simply because they and their build are better than myself and mine. That would seem like it's, at least to me, balanced. Maybe once I've gotten to the peak of my game I'll have a better idea, but even still I'm always going to be limited by my ability.

yelloweyedemon · June 2014

You need to kill healers pretty much with the opener rotation. if you give them a chance to fight back, you're dead.

To do that, you need burst damage, which you don't have with the build you linked.

Frinkles · June 2014

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

To do that, you need burst damage, which you don't have with the build you linked.

What burst am I missing? The one thing that might be skewed in a duel enviroment is the fact the other guy knows I am coming... But without repear's mark this doesn't make much difference.

EDIT* I was talking to the guy afterwards, he played an NB up to Vr4 and simply recommended me the Bloodmage build which has 0 burst so i have no idea what you're talking about.

Frinkles · June 2014

Obscure wrote: »

Against a Sorc that knows curse ignores block for application and is not damage reduced by block, he'll keep that up, kite, and then it's just a matter of time until I leave myself open for an instant cast Shard chased by a Mage Fury execute for huge disintegrate damage.

OK this was actually pretty helpful thank you! Now Q, does this apply to all dots? I didn't mention but once I switched to my bow/warlock bar I would always get him pretty low even through block. I just assumed it was an uptime problem, if its true all dots bypass block then indeed swapping veil of blades for soul strike and getting another dot on my bow could actually do the trick!

Beeftips · June 2014

I won't bash another NBs build because that's all NBs seem to do to one another. I greatly dislike duels solely because EVERYONE BLOCKS. In a PvP gank situation, no one is blocking unless you mark target them.

That being said, I find that with my current build I can drop anyone with <2.5k in 3 shots with the bow (In less than 3-5 seconds). DKs and healers don't really phase my DPS since I usually open on them with lethal arrow (50% less healing taken).

DW is crap. Our assassin skill line is also crap unless you stack massive amounts of magic damage and magika.

Example1- Highest i've seen concealed weapon hit for is 1.2k. Wrecking blow (2hander skill 3 morph) I have seen crit for over 2k on stealth opener.

Example2- Highest i've seen impale hit for is 800ish when the target is >25%. I've seen executioner (2hander skill 4 morph) hit for 2.5k crit, non-stealth.

I'm not telling you that 2hander is the godsend for pvp, these are just examples. I do use it in pvp, but I primarily use bow. The numbers I see with bow are 900-1.7k stealth heavy attacks. 1.2k-1.9k lethal arrow, and 300-600 poison arrow.

The only class skills I use are ambush (on ym 2hander bar), shadow cloak/piercing target (on my bow bar).

-Mohel

http://esocalc.com/#1-6b070004900c:211:1110:13:13:156:26:21:21:21:21:227:21:21:21:31:211:21:21:21:21:171:11:11:21:21:334:31:16:31:31:31:216:22:21:21:212:24:21:21:18:122:14:112:12:112:157:111:112:222-426:124:121:404:430:513:121:442:444:127:524:456

Use enchants on armor to stack the deciding stat you want IE stamina for the build I linked.

Frinkles · June 2014

Dammit ur post made me so sad...

I am stacking ungodly amounts of magicka though >.< And yea 1.8k is bout my max crit with concealed weapon, ofcourse you hardly get to use that opener, cause of magelight, AoEs etc. but wow my my main damage dealer is 50% less effective than a 2h skill...

I knew this, I just forgot about it because of all the complaints you hear of stam builds >.< wow..2k+? I really don't want to change to 2 hander! Is this the burst that my build was missing?

Beeftips · June 2014

If they're using magelight, open with ambush. Stam builds do suck because Stam cost is *** compared to what magica costs are for spells. Stam still can do a crap load of damage though.

Frinkles · June 2014

Beeftips wrote: »

If they're using magelight, open with ambush. Stam builds do suck because Stam cost is *** compared to what magica costs are for spells. Stam still can do a crap load of damage though.

Yup thats my standard opener ambush-> concealed weapon.

Omg I just realized! Lethal arrow lol xD ever since these duels I switched to incapacitating strike for the healing reduction but with the new 2 sec cast time of snipe that arrow looks incredibly sexy!

TheBull · June 2014

Well you are trying to duel wiled (physical dmg) magic (light armor + skills) against a light armored magic using sorcerer. You should lose imo.

Yes sorcerers are OP, instant proc shards, and the low cost of mage's fury to be exact, but try putting on some leather then using those daggers against his light armor. You will get a much better result.

Frinkles · June 2014

TheBull wrote: »

Well you are trying to duel wiled (physical dmg) magic (light armor + skills) against a light armored magic using sorcerer. You should lose imo.

Yes sorcerers are OP, instant proc shards, and the low cost of mage's fury to be exact, but try putting on some leather then using those daggers against his light armor. You will get a much better result.

Maybe I will try after the patch, but you are by far the only person in this forum that would of recommended medium armor for such a situation before today's patch, and I'd agree with those dissing med armor... I am still unconvinced by how good med armor is gonna be after patch.