this is an exploit , hope they fix

Oh, stop whining about your lack of rogue archetype support. An arrow tip can count as a blade and quite honestly the rogue archetype has often included archery.

Melee sucks in this game for all classes not just NB.

Not an exploit at all tbh it just happen stealth work that way.

I've always viewed my NB as more of a Ranger long term (meaning bow, dual-wield and healing for non-D&D players).

I'm not actively using it, but I am training the restoration staff skill line and a couple of the actives in it. I think the synergies between that and syphoning/in battle stealth are pretty obvious and it doesn't surprise me at all that a build based on that can outlast pretty much anything (even if it takes forever to kill some things).

That said, the reason I haven't fully switched to bow/restoration staff is I'm still having too much fun (and success) with the bow/dual-wield combo even as I approach VR5. So, yeah, dual-wield is still viable at those levels (also note that I'm training restoration staff and other skills while using dual-wield, so at any given time I'm only really using 3 of my 5 active slots).

I think it's great when people come up with these weird combos that can result in a complete shift in how people play the class....Edit....took out snarky comments after I thought about it a bit more. I still think this might be an exploit but it's a great way to kill world bosses and possibly be used to tank as a NB if you can do this with S&B taunts.

Congrats on clever theory crafting

Well maybe the best fix would be to make boss switch target upon stealth to the nearest available target? While it is totally absurd a mob could simply hit you while invisible because of attack tracking (hance the reason to the animation interrupt) Mobs shoulnt just stand around looking stupid they should go aim for the nearest available target. Of course they look stupid for the 1 second you get out and get to score a hit, that doesn't justify standing there and not doing anything about other things pummeling them.

Having mob chase after stealthed target however is bad design. Your invisible so why the *** are they still running to get close to you? The issue is not the stealth but the mob reaction time once out of it. And while some mob do fellow trought stealth this actualy is a glitch that should itself be patched.

Its ok for mob to stop attacking/fellowing the player once stealthed

Its ok for mob to cancel their attacking animation or projectile attack once stealthed

Its wrong for mob to simply ignore all other target around when the player is stealthed stealth should cause a full agro reset for its duration. Stealth tank shouldn't be possible in a 4 man cell ''hey you go invisible? ok im gunna go aim for the healer now'' This doesn't give any excuse to dumb it down to a ''I fellow and keep attack tracking you trought stealth'' it should just cause mob to switch target for someone else or in the worse case totaly reset the fight which would end up ruining the whole nightblade class principe or turn them into ''skipping mob pack'' pro who will just fly trought dungeon ignoring everything else but the bosses.


Of course Stealth switching would end up also killing all the nightblade shadowcloak tanking build due to ruining their agro therefore forcing them to run stuff like unstoppable instead.

Andy22 wrote: »

1) Works on any* boss, the bug has nothing to-do with bosses can "see invisible" or not.

Incorrect

Andy22 wrote: »

It is an exploit.

In video games, an exploit (colloquially sploit) is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

......
PS: Btw this also works without resto staff.

Is this a Wiki definition? *snicker* Okay, let's use it like a viable resource I guess...

Why are we certain that the developers did not intend this to be a mechanism for Nightblades? All I'm seeing is that it allows for a painfully slow boss kill while solo. How is that different from what DK's and Sorc's are doing... besides the painfully slow part? The game was in PTS for months with a great deal of videos being published (once approved by ZOS) of the classes solo'ing bosses. They saw this long before launch, and it's still in there.

This stealth functionality (or bug/glitch as you see it) works on normal and elite mobs in the exact same manner. Are you saying that not only did the developers let this get into the game with every single type of mob, but that they also did not realize that they did so? That sounds quite illogical to me. Granted, it does seem a little overpowered, so I wouldn't be surprised if it were nerfed. But an exploit... nah, not seeing that logic. There's nothing unethical about killing a boss this way. Cheap? Meh... maybe.

Oh, and just curious (and a little skeptical sure), got any links to people doing this without a resto staff? Genuinely interested in seeing that.

Lastly, to the folks going on and on with the rogue/ranger talk: you were not promised either class, however, you've got four classes all capable of carrying daggers and/or bows, wearing leather, and sneaking while killing. Live with that. No one needs to change the Nightblade name because of your preconceived notions of what one would be.

Not my video to be honest I just pointed out another link in the forum ive never even been in wayrest sewer on veteran to begin with. People are doing it and to be honest I find them somewhat wise. Perma cloaking allow to maintain the armor bonus at will. Zenimax cannot realy blame them for doing all they can to survive in veteran the question you should ask yourself when looking at this is... is it harmfull to the game to begin with?

The reason this thing exist is because people are smart and figured out a way to combine effect effectively so to get results. Asking to nerf this is the same as asking to nerf sorcerer ability to farm naked or dragonknight endless health supply.

As long as its possible to combine effects people will always seek the best way to abuse them.

In a way id feel sorry for NB who struggle to survive in pve should they be nerfed for this when sorcerer got an overpowered heal allowing them to out tank all damage and dragonknight are simply put near immortal by default.

I say they could potentially nerf the spell mana cost to make it impossible to spam but I think they should think about doubling the armor passive effect as NB got actualy no source of it save for that stealthing armor spam abuse.

Sure do go ahead and nerf it but don't remember to give us the tools to survive otherwise too. Most NB rely on shadowcloak or unstoppable (I run unstoppable as I need my magicka to heal people) for their armor buff maybe NB could use having an armor increasing ability other then a passive because sorcerer, dk and Templar all got one or several. An important healing ability other then siphoning strike would also be in order unless you plan making siphoning strike having better gain or remove the damage loss.

A Sorcerer can tank the game veteran boss without any armor on him (0 armor naked or all armor broken) long as he got the healers to heal him (and even then a sorcerer in medium armor using aoe damage ability like whirling blade with bound armor thundering presence and critical surge is a god). this effectively waste 2 skill slot but its meaningless to someone who with 3 free slot can just aoe the hell out of anything witheout efforts.

As for completely break veteran boss encounter... the guy who did this took hours doing that dungeon where a regular party would have took way less... I don't think most player got that patience. Also some encounter such as fungal grotto prevent this kind of gimmick by selecting random player as sacrifice to 1 shot gimmick wich normaly has to be countered by the rest of the team... who will save you once you are alone under the slowly falling sword um?

Sure if you are fighting the right boss in the right encounter this is possible but do you realy plan wasting so long a time when you can just get an efficient party and do it in way less.

Andy22 wrote: »

mhh starting your argumentation with a "Red herring". Only because something is quoted from wikipedia doesn't invalidates it by default. If u don't agree with this "loose" definition, u should have given a better one or simply leave your "Red herring" out of the argumentation.

It's not a Red Herring for two reasons: 1. I chose to agree to this paraphrased definition just for the sake of argument, and 2. Showing the invalidity of someone's quote by pointing out the lack of credibility of its author is not at all irrelevant. Wikipedia is not a viable resource for any form of research since you can't track the author nor his/her credentials. This is especially true of definitions. You should reference a dictionary if you're wanting to stress the meanings of words. Just pointing that out.

I did originally include a definition of the word in my post, but I took it out because it was starting to get long. Since you want one, I'll input it below now:

ex·ploit
noun
1. a bold or daring feat.
2. a software tool designed to take advantage of a flaw in a computer system, typically for malicious purposes such as installing malware.

verb
1. make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).
2. use (a situation or person) in an unfair or selfish way.
3. benefit unfairly from the work of (someone), typically by overworking or underpaying them.


In reference to software, I don't agree that it is an exploit.

Thats simply because u only can "judge" what u see and u probably don't play a NB tank, to test this bug to its full extent?

I'm not arguing anything for NB tanks. My point is that the video we watched in this thread is not an exploit. It's of no consequence to me at the moment how tanks use this, only that it is not an exploit to do so.

That sounds like "Argument from authority", u assume that its intended because the "mighty" developer" should have noticed this and fixed it long ago. They also did not fix animation canceling/deadly bash/vampire and tons of other bugs. I think it was simply overlooked, since NB tanks are not this common.

Yeah, it's a bit of an assumption that the developers have known about this one, and given the time frame that this method has been used, I'd say it's a fair one. You say it was just overlooked? Alright, that's not far-fetched either. However, whether overlooked or intended, he/we still is/are using this tactic (that was implemented specifically by a team of developers) for non-malicious means, so it's not an exploit.

No clue why u throw "unethical" now suddenly in the mix, its still a game so if something is "unethical" or not has nothing to-do with it being a exploit or not.

It made more sense when I had the definition in the post. Now that it's back, you should be able to understand why I say this. An exploit, in software terms, is a malicious and/or unethical act.

Maybe u still don't understand what this means in practical veteran dungeon terms?... blah, snarky words, blah...
So still think thats "a little overpowered" ?

Um... yes, a little overpowered. Are you making the argument of it actually being "a lot" overpowered? Well since variations of overpowered-ness is totally made up in the minds of us nerds... let's not take this portion of the argument any further. It's overpowered; we are in agreement. What I am not agreeing to is the notion that it's an exploit.

Ofc u are skeptical and i would be so too, don't get me wrong. The problem is i play NB tank and out of curiosity i "tested" this a couple of times and it's ridiculous.

I'm also not here to get my account banned, by showcasing a video here like the OP did or posting my exact build i used to test/confirm this bug.

This should go without saying, but if you can't provide proof of a feat in the forums for whatever reason, it didn't happen... don't even bother throwing it in at the end of your post to try to one-up the original post.

Hahaha! Well there you have it. Boring as it looks, it most certainly is possible without the resto staff. I am hereby cured from my skepticism on that topic.

I stand by my interpretation of the term exploit and insist that this is not one, but there's no reason to argue that any further. We just interpret it differently, and from a gaming standpoint, that's fine.

It's overpowered though, yes. They probably should change that... at some point... whenever they get around to it. More important things need fixing first.

Sleepwalker wrote: »

I stand by my interpretation of the term exploit and insist that this is not one, but there's no reason to argue that any further. We just interpret it differently, and from a gaming standpoint, that's fine.

Just out of curiosity i researched this a little further. It actually does not depend on what u, me or even some other higher authority like a court/oxforddictionaries uses as definition. We simply try to anticipate what the game developer/publisher itself uses as "good" definition, since often using a exploit can mean u get at least a warning and in the worst case get banned. Getting banned always involves some form of impact on other players or offend-able behaviour that gets into the real life of a player.

So here are some definitions from official statements or EULAS of MMO's

Blizzard:

Nonetheless, certain acts go beyond what is "fair" and are considered serious violations of these Terms of Use. Those acts include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:

(i) Using or exploiting errors in design, features which have not been documented, and/or "program bugs" to gain access that is otherwise not available, or to obtain a competitive advantage over other players;

CCP: (EvE Online)

Definition of an exploit, according to CCP:
"An exploit is when someone bypasses normal game mechanics, such as by utilizing a bug in the game, allowing him to take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever."

"Insta- Joining and Leaving corporations to surprise war targets is an exploit! - Reported: 2008.08.26 15:38:53

Announcement on exploit: Accepting applicants located in space, to surprise war targets in their vicinity is considered an exploit

The example sounds confusing, but its basically exploiting a oversight not even a bug in how leaving/joining a guild (Corp in EvE) works and what consequences this has to easier attack other players. They could attack anyway, but using this exploit they minimize there risk vs reward outcome.

Funcom (Anarchy Online)

You will not exploit any bug in Anarchy Online and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits in game for a character of their profession and level), either directly or through public posting, to any other user of Anarchy Online.

Perfect World (Never Winter Online)

l. using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;

Zenimax Online (General)

5.2 Users will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. Users will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage.

Zenimax Online (ESO)

exploit the Game or any of its parts, including without limitation the Game Client, for any commercial purpose (including without limitation renting, leasing or licensing the Game to others), including without limitation (a) for gathering virtual currency, items or resources for sale outside the Game; or (b) performing in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, e.g., power-leveling;

As we can see there are some variations, some games by default seem to care about exploits more if it directly impacts other players, others more loosely define it as "unnatural or unintended benefits in game". In our case ESO is rather obscure and just notes "Users will not exploit any bug" without any real hint to what this actually means.

In all cases it seems to boil down to if its "fair" to others or not.

Does this still work on normal mobs?