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The Solution to Bots is Simple!
Back in the golden days of MMO's there existed a certain level of service associated with a subscription. In those days it would be the norm to see GM's in the game throughout your daily activities. In those days you could get assistance within an hour or two. You essentially were able to see where your money went. Believe it or not that's the main reason (even with its flaws at launch) that WOW grew exponentially.
Fast Forward to the present and its no longer the norm to see GM's in a game past a few months of launch. It takes upwards of a day or week to get answers.
The culture has changed in this business. Its no longer about the customer per se. Its about the product in its self. I am not sure how the culture changed, other then to say they found out they could get away with it over the years.
To cut back on this level of Customer Service saves a substantial amount of money. Money that can be used to blacken their bottom line. MMO's today are like McDonalds, where its normal to see a new employee replace and old one. Sure retention is nice and they will spend money on marketing, but at the end of the day if they are able to get new people to subscribe for a few months throughout the life of the product , that has proven to be just as successful as retaining a core audience. They also know there are those that will stick with a game regardless of its flaws because it has a brand that those individuals associate with, Like SWTOR, ESO, FF XIV, WOW.
So what's the solution..... Money and Caring! I think there might be a misconception of what a GM is. A GM for the purposes of Bots is someone that has the ability to immediately ban someone in game for practices that are against the TOS. GM's do not need to be programmers or college educated students who require the same salary as those employed by a company to make games. That's not to say that GM's can't be those individuals, just that for the purposes of Bot Banning its not required. If a company were to hire twenty people that already play the game and promote them to a GM, it would not only be cost effective it would curve the bot population.
When ESO says they are actively working on curving the Bot population it means they are trying to find ways through the code to eliminate them. This for them is cheap because if they find a solution to the problem they essentially have a computer doing the work of banning bots that normally would require a human. That rationale however is wrong. In the early days of WOW, bots were eradicated to the point of non-existence, How? People power. More specifically GM's in the game constantly and consistently. The fact is that bot issue in this game could be eliminated overnight. It just requires the developer to spend the money we provide for the service to play the game.
The truth however is they don't care about us enough to do that. Why? Because they know through history that this current model of saving money is still successful regardless if you stay or go, there will always be someone else to replace you as long as they spend the money to market the game. The MMO genre is no longer a service, its a cycle of rinse and repeat every month. If you decide to stay its better for them, but not required. If you decide to re-sub after a major patch its better for them, but not required. Until we hold these companies accountable for the money we spend (no matter how little it really is) this trend of un-caring will continue to be the norm with the MMO genre.
Fast Forward to the present and its no longer the norm to see GM's in a game past a few months of launch. It takes upwards of a day or week to get answers.
The culture has changed in this business. Its no longer about the customer per se. Its about the product in its self. I am not sure how the culture changed, other then to say they found out they could get away with it over the years.
To cut back on this level of Customer Service saves a substantial amount of money. Money that can be used to blacken their bottom line. MMO's today are like McDonalds, where its normal to see a new employee replace and old one. Sure retention is nice and they will spend money on marketing, but at the end of the day if they are able to get new people to subscribe for a few months throughout the life of the product , that has proven to be just as successful as retaining a core audience. They also know there are those that will stick with a game regardless of its flaws because it has a brand that those individuals associate with, Like SWTOR, ESO, FF XIV, WOW.
So what's the solution..... Money and Caring! I think there might be a misconception of what a GM is. A GM for the purposes of Bots is someone that has the ability to immediately ban someone in game for practices that are against the TOS. GM's do not need to be programmers or college educated students who require the same salary as those employed by a company to make games. That's not to say that GM's can't be those individuals, just that for the purposes of Bot Banning its not required. If a company were to hire twenty people that already play the game and promote them to a GM, it would not only be cost effective it would curve the bot population.
When ESO says they are actively working on curving the Bot population it means they are trying to find ways through the code to eliminate them. This for them is cheap because if they find a solution to the problem they essentially have a computer doing the work of banning bots that normally would require a human. That rationale however is wrong. In the early days of WOW, bots were eradicated to the point of non-existence, How? People power. More specifically GM's in the game constantly and consistently. The fact is that bot issue in this game could be eliminated overnight. It just requires the developer to spend the money we provide for the service to play the game.
The truth however is they don't care about us enough to do that. Why? Because they know through history that this current model of saving money is still successful regardless if you stay or go, there will always be someone else to replace you as long as they spend the money to market the game. The MMO genre is no longer a service, its a cycle of rinse and repeat every month. If you decide to stay its better for them, but not required. If you decide to re-sub after a major patch its better for them, but not required. Until we hold these companies accountable for the money we spend (no matter how little it really is) this trend of un-caring will continue to be the norm with the MMO genre.
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Some_Jerk✭✭✭Good points, although there are GM's that do this now and again there should be employees constantly on shift to ban bots. (if they were completely serious about this)
I really do get the impression that this company doesn't care about us as customers; i believe in the TOS we agree to to play it says they can ban us for any reason, any time. They don't want us making polls or posts on their forums that criticize or attack them. ESO subscribers are treated as expendable, but who knows, perhaps we are.0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So basically Hire more GMs, Ok that sounds good.
But for heaven's sake learn to be brief, that wall of text is ridiculously offputting.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule4 -
AlexDougherty wrote: »So basically Hire more GMs, Ok that sounds good.
But for heaven's sake learn to be brief, that wall of text is ridiculously offputting.
Brief? Why are so many people not willing to read a page worth of opinions? The era of Twitter and IM's is truly upon us. To condense something Is not always the best solution to make a point. That's not to say that I couldn't have been more brief. Either way thanks for reading my Wall Of Text... LOL!
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AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Fair point, you do give a background story, and it was worth reading. It's just I alway feel the Opening Post should be as brief as possible without compromising the integral message, to hook people in.LexonLightbringer wrote: »AlexDougherty wrote: »So basically Hire more GMs, Ok that sounds good.
But for heaven's sake learn to be brief, that wall of text is ridiculously offputting.
Brief? Why are so many people not willing to read a page worth of opinions? The era of Twitter and IM's is truly upon us. To condense something Is not always the best solution to make a point. That's not to say that I couldn't have been more brief. Either way thanks for reading my Wall Of Text... LOL!
But as I said, fair point.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
Selstad✭✭✭✭And pray tell me, how do you prevent those that the GM have banned on returning to the game within mere minutes of the ban?
You can amass an army of GMs in-game that runs around and sniffs on your every move, and ban who they think are BOTs, but the only problem that will come from this is that the GM ban someone that's not a BOT and that person has to wait to get back in for that misunderstanding to be cleared. The one that is really a BOT just swaps around a bit and returns on a new account and character within minutes.
No, there aren't any easy solutions to the BOT problem. Find one solution and the BOTers have 10 counter-measures. It's not as simple as it looks.0 -
LIQUID741✭✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »So basically Hire more GMs, Ok that sounds good.
But for heaven's sake learn to be brief, that wall of text is ridiculously offputting.
The thing about this comment is perfectly in-line with the above OP's opinion...you wanted a quick summary, and ESO wants a quick cheap fix to the bots. Sadly the bots are winning because the cheap easy route seems to have been taken.
Back to the OP's opinion...I'm completely on board. Would love to see them act quickly and justly on the banning of bots...for one thing, they would win back the community regarding being proactive and listening to the customer.
Who knows...maybe this game has a GM island like WoW. Where the GM's just never want to leave.Edited by LIQUID741 on 21 May 2014 09:56Solid-Nightblade of AD0 -
Phantax✭✭✭✭✭
✭And pray tell me, how do you prevent those that the GM have banned on returning to the game within mere minutes of the ban?
If by ban you mean a closed/blocked account then it is that simple. How long do you think these people are going to keep paying for new accounts before it becomes financially unviable for them?
High Elf Sorcerer VR12 - Destro / Resto Staff
I'm a werewolf. If you vamps don't like it.... Bite me !
We're not retreating... we're advancing in a different direction !0 -
And pray tell me, how do you prevent those that the GM have banned on returning to the game within mere minutes of the ban?
You can amass an army of GMs in-game that runs around and sniffs on your every move, and ban who they think are BOTs, but the only problem that will come from this is that the GM ban someone that's not a BOT and that person has to wait to get back in for that misunderstanding to be cleared. The one that is really a BOT just swaps around a bit and returns on a new account and character within minutes.
No, there aren't any easy solutions to the BOT problem. Find one solution and the BOTers have 10 counter-measures. It's not as simple as it looks.
Funny you mention that. When has it been okay for someone to correct a problem or issue and then not actually oversee the correction. We already have bot banning through GM's, which doesn't work. What we need is consistency in the banning, where the bot maker's know they are going to get banned because Law Enforcement is around the corner.
The fact is that the developer currently has no measures in place to curb the bot population, that's there fault. The immediate solution is to increase the time and amount of GM's in the game. This is not an easy fix, because of this it requires an investment by ZENIMAX to have the necessary measures to prevent such behavior for as long as its needed, which might be forever. This is the reality of the MMO genre.
Botter's can have a million counter measures. When you have a person in-game that has the ability to locate them and ban them, it not longer matters there measures. If Zenimax was serious they would have at least one GM in the game on every server 7 days a week 365 days a year until they find a solution in the code. You are aware we pay them for a service right? Sure it will cost them a portion of their profit, and it should.
It comes down to how much they care about their customers. Customers have been clear they want a fix. A fix that ZENIMAX can provide if they truly care about their customers, not their bottom line!
Edited by LexonLightbringer on 21 May 2014 10:120 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭I agree with every word. It is one of the reasons WoW is still so successful even today. I never had to wait longer than an hour to talk to someone and usually it was within 15mins. Last time I used this service was about six months ago and it was as good as ever.
It is a bit of a problem in ESO. According to many posts people are leaving because a little problems that if they had people on hand could be dealt with bots being the prime example. If not, GM's would at least give an illusion of helping.
You wouldn't even need that many for very long. Once things start progressing it's an ever moving solution that in time could be reduced. When a game such as ESO is released you would realistically expect a small army of them. Had they done so then bots would not be the problem they are today.
Now, hindsight is a great thing, but anyone with half a brain would have seen this coming a mile off.
I honestly think that with MMO's service is 50% of the product and the only reason why WoW is still miles ahead of the rest. If the development was as good as the service I would still be over there.2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Simpler solution, have the server actually authenticate player actions rather than accepting what the client tells it blindly. You know, like every other MMO... just a thought.1 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭I agree. Instant account closing and banning of the payment method is the minimum that needs doing for the obvious bots (and they really are obvious mostly).
There's a ton of other things that could be done instantly such as limiting toon deletion to 3 a day etc.
I've just paid into the Archeage alpha and in the patch notes the first thing I read is something about adjusting the client-side teleport-exploit detection routines to eliminate false positives.
They are thinking ahead in their conversion. They are anticipating problems. It's inexplicable and inexcusable that Zen did not do the same thing.Edited by steveb16_ESO46 on 21 May 2014 10:270 -
Selstad✭✭✭✭If by ban you mean a closed/blocked account then it is that simple. How long do you think these people are going to keep paying for new accounts before it becomes financially unviable for them?
Do you honestly think people with dishonest purposes using BOT programs to farm and sell gold, use their own personal creditcard? Really? They use compromised cards and accounts, simple as that.LexonLightbringer wrote: »Funny you mention that. When has it been okay for someone to correct a problem or issue and then not actually oversee the correction. We already have bot banning through GM's, which doesn't work. What we need is consistency in the banning, where the bot maker's know they are going to get banned because Law Enforcement is around the corner.
The fact is that the developer currently has no measures in place to curb the bot population, that's there fault. The immediate solution is to increase the time and amount of GM's in the game. This is not an easy fix, because of this it requires an investment by ZENIMAX to have the necessary measures to prevent such behavior for as long as its needed, which might be forever. This is the reality of the MMO genre.
Botter's can have a million counter measures. When you have a person in-game that has the ability to locate them and ban them, it not longer matters there measures. If Zenimax was serious they would have at least one GM in the game on every server 7 days a week 365 days a year until they find a solution in the code. You are aware we pay them for a service right? Sure it will cost them a portion of their profit, and it should.
It comes down to how much they care about their customers. Customers have been clear they want a fix. A fix that ZENIMAX can provide if they truly care about their customers, not their bottom line!
What you're overseeing is that Zenimax has a limited amount of resources to spend, and they could increase their GMs by 100 folds and it would still just be a microscopic piece of what the "BOT"ers have to their disposal. Imagine an army of 100 against an army of 100 000. The BOTers have the advantage of numbers. It's like a hydra, cut of one head and 3 more will spawn in its place.
They have GMs present in the game, they are amassing the players to help locate and get them off, but as I said, it has no effect banning BOTers at all. Therefore you can have as many GMs as you want, eventually you end up inconvenience the players as well by wrongfully banning them for something they haven't done. And then I'm certain there would be 100 threads yelling again that Zenimax doesn't care about their costumers as they ban them without evidence.
So basically, some players are just whining little *beeps* that love to complain about everything. You can take that one as you like.0 -
Tannakaobi wrote: »I agree with every word. It is one of the reasons WoW is still so successful even today. I never had to wait longer than an hour to talk to someone and usually it was within 15mins. Last time I used this service was about six months ago and it was as good as ever.
It is a bit of a problem in ESO. According to many posts people are leaving because a little problems that if they had people on hand could be dealt with bots being the prime example. If not, GM's would at least give an illusion of helping.
You wouldn't even need that many for very long. Once things start progressing it's an ever moving solution that in time could be reduced. When a game such as ESO is released you would realistically expect a small army of them. Had they done so then bots would not be the problem they are today.
Now, hindsight is a great thing, but anyone with half a brain would have seen this coming a mile off.
I honestly think that with MMO's service is 50% of the product and the only reason why WoW is still miles ahead of the rest. If the development was as good as the service I would still be over there.
Thanks for reinforcing my opinion and elaborating on why WOW is as successful as it is. You are also right that WOW has its own problems, but because of there CS they have been able to retain so many for so long. Funny thing about CS and its ability to mitigate even the worst possible issues.0 -
What you're overseeing is that Zenimax has a limited amount of resources to spend, and they could increase their GMs by 100 folds and it would still just be a microscopic piece of what the "BOT"ers have to their disposal. Imagine an army of 100 against an army of 100 000. The BOTers have the advantage of numbers. It's like a hydra, cut of one head and 3 more will spawn in its place.
They have GMs present in the game, they are amassing the players to help locate and get them off, but as I said, it has no effect banning BOTers at all. Therefore you can have as many GMs as you want, eventually you end up inconvenience the players as well by wrongfully banning them for something they haven't done. And then I'm certain there would be 100 threads yelling again that Zenimax doesn't care about their costumers as they ban them without evidence.
So basically, some players are just whining little *beeps* that love to complain about everything. You can take that one as you like.
GM's are not present in this game. I played for 10 days straight and only saw one message that a GM has entered the game. You see when a GM is in your instance you are notified by the system message. If what you said was correct I would have seen a number of these system messages of GM's entering my game. That's not the reality, it was one time in ten days and I played 16 hours aday. I know I have a problem!
One GM can ban a hundred bots a day, three GM's working in eight hour shifts can ban thousands of them in a day. Seriously, if you truly believe that ZENIMAX cannot, or should not, spend that money.. then I ask you what are you paying for?
They can curb the bot population, its a proven fact. In the short term it cost money and man-power. Trust me if I knew my money was going towards creating new jobs It would only reinforce my support for this game. Yet I imagine in a couple of months I will read an article detailing the reasons why 50 people from ZENIMAX Online were laid off, because of re-organizational purposes (which have become the norm these days).
Edited by LexonLightbringer on 21 May 2014 10:370 -
Selstad✭✭✭✭Ok so by your logic, you need to see a GM to know they are there. Right, I haven't in my 9 years of playing WoW seen 1 GM, ergo following your logic, there aren't any GMs in WoW.
Naturally, and totally, wrong. They are monitoring it but do you honestly think they are going to announce with music and pomp "tadadada, Lord Esteemed GM of Zenimax is here!". Really? They announce it when they want players to know they are there to help report BOTs, that doesn't necessarily mean they announce it every time. If I were to follow your logic, I would have to say there are no GMs because I have not gotten that message and I've been playing since the pre-launch.
I know Zenimax is looking into the problem and I trust them to find a solution, but I'm also not so dense to think that there are easy solutions and Zenimax is an Evil Corporation led by this man:
Really, the BOT problem is complex and difficult and not something easily removed. Every MMO have this problem and I remember it took Blizzard years to develop something that seemingly worked, though, there are still countless BOTs in WoW.1 -
Ok so by your logic, you need to see a GM to know they are there. Right, I haven't in my 9 years of playing WoW seen 1 GM, ergo following your logic, there aren't any GMs in WoW.
Naturally, and totally, wrong. They are monitoring it but do you honestly think they are going to announce with music and pomp "tadadada, Lord Esteemed GM of Zenimax is here!". Really? They announce it when they want players to know they are there to help report BOTs, that doesn't necessarily mean they announce it every time. If I were to follow your logic, I would have to say there are no GMs because I have not gotten that message and I've been playing since the pre-launch.
I know Zenimax is looking into the problem and I trust them to find a solution, but I'm also not so dense to think that there are easy solutions and Zenimax is an Evil Corporation led by this man:
Really, the BOT problem is complex and difficult and not something easily removed. Every MMO have this problem and I remember it took Blizzard years to develop something that seemingly worked, though, there are still countless BOTs in WoW.
When I mentioned WOW and its ability to curb Bots, it was isolated to the first year of launch. Bots were non-existent then, I don't know about now. As far as them announcing or not announcing, I am not sure how that's works. But if they were smart they would auto-announce there existence every time, because in general chat someone is always looking for one to terminate the infestation. The community is actively engaged in reporting, we need the company to be actively engaged too.
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Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭LexonLightbringer wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »I agree with every word. It is one of the reasons WoW is still so successful even today. I never had to wait longer than an hour to talk to someone and usually it was within 15mins. Last time I used this service was about six months ago and it was as good as ever.
It is a bit of a problem in ESO. According to many posts people are leaving because a little problems that if they had people on hand could be dealt with bots being the prime example. If not, GM's would at least give an illusion of helping.
You wouldn't even need that many for very long. Once things start progressing it's an ever moving solution that in time could be reduced. When a game such as ESO is released you would realistically expect a small army of them. Had they done so then bots would not be the problem they are today.
Now, hindsight is a great thing, but anyone with half a brain would have seen this coming a mile off.
I honestly think that with MMO's service is 50% of the product and the only reason why WoW is still miles ahead of the rest. If the development was as good as the service I would still be over there.
Thanks for reinforcing my opinion and elaborating on why WOW is as successful as it is. You are also right that WOW has its own problems, but because of there CS they have been able to retain so many for so long. Funny thing about CS and its ability to mitigate even the worst possible issues.
I actually think that WoW's biggest failure is also down to customer Service. They seem to bend over backwards to give the players what they want. Sometimes to the detriment of the game.
The result is constant nerfs and dumbing down of the game. I remember 1-60 took months. 60-70 took a long time and so on. Last time I was on was just after MoP, I was contemplating if I should bother or not. I had not played for over a year. I noticed that my heirlooms were missing. Through a ticket I was able to get them back, great job and what I was talking about above.
The problem for me was this, I rolled another alt, a hunter. The only items I carried over were the looms. Within a fortnight I had gone from 1-80 using basically two skills. I just don't see the fun in that. I quite and will now never go back.
ESO could be my next WoW, as in the game I come back too time and time again. I really do lover it, but little things are letting it down right now. In game CS is the biggest of them all. As far as I can see there is none and if I report bots or spammers, I then get my email spammed by ESO!
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Selstad✭✭✭✭LexonLightbringer wrote: »When I mentioned WOW and its ability to curb Bots, it was isolated to the first year of launch. Bots were non-existent then, I don't know about now. As far as them announcing or not announcing, I am not sure how that's works. But if they were smart they would auto-announce there existence every time, because in general chat someone is always looking for one to terminate the infestation. The community is actively engaged in reporting, we need the company to be actively engaged too.
Really? Isolated to the first year? Well, first of then, it should leave Zenimax with some time since the game hasn't been out half a year.
Second of, remember primal bots in Shadowmoon valley? Just as an example, BOTs in WoW was never isolated to the first year, they have survived over the years.
They don't have to announce it because you're always suppose to report suspicious behaviour, regardless if you know there are a GM around or not. And how do you know that Zenimax isn't engaged? Are you employed in their office, or just another doomsday sayer with a cardboard sign and tin-foiled hat on your head?0 -
LexonLightbringer wrote: »When I mentioned WOW and its ability to curb Bots, it was isolated to the first year of launch. Bots were non-existent then, I don't know about now. As far as them announcing or not announcing, I am not sure how that's works. But if they were smart they would auto-announce there existence every time, because in general chat someone is always looking for one to terminate the infestation. The community is actively engaged in reporting, we need the company to be actively engaged too.
Really? Isolated to the first year? Well, first of then, it should leave Zenimax with some time since the game hasn't been out half a year.
Second of, remember primal bots in Shadowmoon valley? Just as an example, BOTs in WoW was never isolated to the first year, they have survived over the years.
They don't have to announce it because you're always suppose to report suspicious behaviour, regardless if you know there are a GM around or not. And how do you know that Zenimax isn't engaged? Are you employed in their office, or just another doomsday sayer with a cardboard sign and tin-foiled hat on your head?
Defender of the Universe.... Much?
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Selstad✭✭✭✭Just someone who's worked with costumers for many years and seen and heard some really REALLY messed up "complains".
If you're not satisfied with the way the company treats you, then you don't have to pay them either. It is actually that simple. A lot simpler than finding a solution to the BOT problem.0 -
Just someone who's worked with costumers for many years and seen and heard some really REALLY messed up "complains".
If you're not satisfied with the way the company treats you, then you don't have to pay them either. It is actually that simple. A lot simpler than finding a solution to the BOT problem.
Seriously its the, if you don't like it... quit response. Please no.... When has this logic ever made a game better. I am not saying that a developer should cater to every negative thing associated with a game. But for the purposes of eliminating bot's, the I should quit response is lame and totally contradicting of the problem. Believe me you don't want everyone that has a problem with bots to leave, because that's the entire population of this game (except you and maybe a small minority)! This is not a personal attack directed at you, just a response to a perceived personal attack directed at me!0 -
Rocksteady✭✭✭Having GMs mulling about is good PR even if they don't successfully eradicate the bots. I remember playing EQ back when it was first released and the GMs would do neat events and such. Makes you feel special when you know somebody at the company cares enough to write a little script and spawn some monsters then do system wide messages roleplaying as the monsters to get people excited. Fun AND productive even if it's futile."Their stupidity does not amaze me, its when they're smart that amazes me. It's baffling whenever you find someone who's smart — incredible. Soon you'll have zoos for such things." -Frank Zappa0 -
Teevesnacks wrote: »In my day botters weren't so advanced
Botter's are like new technology. They are only as advanced as they have to be in order to make a profit!
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Selstad✭✭✭✭LexonLightbringer wrote: »Seriously its the, if you don't like it... quit response. Please no.... When has this logic ever made a game better. I am not saying that a developer should cater to every negative thing associated with a game. But for the purposes of eliminating bot's, the I should quit response is lame and totally contradicting of the problem. Believe me you don't want everyone that has a problem with bots to leave, because that's the entire population of this game (except you and maybe a small minority)! This is not a personal attack directed at you, just a response to a perceived personal attack directed at me!
Yet there is an entire thread as well about people who don't have any major problems with BOTs. To be honest, this "problem" has been escalated way out of proportions and made bigger than it really is.
And the whole point you're making is that there is an easy solution to fixing the BOT problem, and then turn around telling that it's Zenimax' fault that they aren't doing things, based on your assumption that there aren't any GMs in-game, against based on your assumption based on a fact that they don't announce their presence to you or anyone else.
And as I've said, there aren't any easy solution to BOTers, if there were, they would have been implemented, but there aren't. Basing yourself on a yellow text announcement of a GM's presence, is not any evidence that Zenimax is placid in dealing with the BOT problem, but that's an assumption going widespread these days. A lot of people seem to think that it's as easy as snapping your finger and then the problem is gone. That is the attitude that really grinds my gears.1 -
LexonLightbringer wrote: »Seriously its the, if you don't like it... quit response. Please no.... When has this logic ever made a game better. I am not saying that a developer should cater to every negative thing associated with a game. But for the purposes of eliminating bot's, the I should quit response is lame and totally contradicting of the problem. Believe me you don't want everyone that has a problem with bots to leave, because that's the entire population of this game (except you and maybe a small minority)! This is not a personal attack directed at you, just a response to a perceived personal attack directed at me!
Yet there is an entire thread as well about people who don't have any major problems with BOTs. To be honest, this "problem" has been escalated way out of proportions and made bigger than it really is.
And the whole point you're making is that there is an easy solution to fixing the BOT problem, and then turn around telling that it's Zenimax' fault that they aren't doing things, based on your assumption that there aren't any GMs in-game, against based on your assumption based on a fact that they don't announce their presence to you or anyone else.
And as I've said, there aren't any easy solution to BOTers, if there were, they would have been implemented, but there aren't. Basing yourself on a yellow text announcement of a GM's presence, is not any evidence that Zenimax is placid in dealing with the BOT problem, but that's an assumption going widespread these days. A lot of people seem to think that it's as easy as snapping your finger and then the problem is gone. That is the attitude that really grinds my gears.
Hiring GM's is not snapping finger's. It cost real money and provides real solutions. Your suggesting that this whole Bot thing has been blown out of proportion? All I can say is read every article that has been written regarding bots (which makes up 50% of these forums) and then come back and say there isn't a problem.0 -
Selstad✭✭✭✭And again with the assumptions, and what then would they do when they've flooded the world with GMs? What would the GMs do to battle the BOTs? How would they make a difference? Even with a 24/7 shift on banning BOTs it would still only be a minor inconvenience for those BOTing, and a major disadvantage for those who don't BOT. Imagine the outcry from those wrongfully banned for BOTing.
That's what I mean with "no easy solution", having GMs in the game is a small help, but it's not a solution to the problem. The solution is server sided and it's automated, problem we have here is that most files are client sided and client sided files are easily cracked. So no, there aren't any easy solutions to BOT problems.0 -
And again with the assumptions, and what then would they do when they've flooded the world with GMs? What would the GMs do to battle the BOTs? How would they make a difference? Even with a 24/7 shift on banning BOTs it would still only be a minor inconvenience for those BOTing, and a major disadvantage for those who don't BOT. Imagine the outcry from those wrongfully banned for BOTing.
That's what I mean with "no easy solution", having GMs in the game is a small help, but it's not a solution to the problem. The solution is server sided and it's automated, problem we have here is that most files are client sided and client sided files are easily cracked. So no, there aren't any easy solutions to BOT problems.
I agree with you that the long term solution is coding and mechanisms that prevent bots through software and restrictions. I also agree that adding GM's could be deemed futile. But what you need to understand is that this problem has been ongoing for two months and they have said it is one of there main priorities to fix. In the short term adding an influx of GM's would reduce the amount of bots, while the company continues to test "back-end" additions to solve the problem.
If you had a crack under your sink, would you a.) wait for the plumber to fix it or b.) place a bowl underneath the leak to prevent additional damage or c.) both...?
Edited by LexonLightbringer on 21 May 2014 12:070 -
ArRashid✭✭✭✭Ever heard of Prefect system?
Appointing a few fair individuals to serve as "hall monitors" (why not call them HM) from the ranks of players, who would be reporting (giving players the ability to ban could be disaster) bots and possible exploiters straight to the GM who has duty that moment, for, let's say, 1 euro cheaper subscription fee (as long as they report enough of them the month before - false alarms shouldn't count or count as negative points to discourage exploiting in the weaker-willed).
That way you could eradicate all negative elements in the game, while you don't need more than 1 GM online at a time appointed by vanquishing evil
. I think it could still be relatively cheap for you. 0 -
Ever heard of Prefect system?
Appointing a few fair individuals to serve as "hall monitors" (why not call them HM) from the ranks of players, who would be reporting (giving players the ability to ban could be disaster) bots and possible exploiters straight to the GM who has duty that moment, for, let's say, 1 euro cheaper subscription fee (as long as they report enough of them the month before - false alarms shouldn't count or count as negative points to discourage exploiting in the weaker-willed).
That way you could eradicate all negative elements in the game, while you don't need more than 1 GM online at a time appointed by vanquishing evil. I think it could still be relatively cheap for you.
Great Idea!!!!
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