Only having 12 skills available makes gameplay feel really limited and handicapped.

Loco_Mofo

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

People complaining about the weapon swapping and how its getting them killed in battle baffles me.

I pretty much NEVER use weapon swap unless I wanna change up my play style Weapon A is my Range set up / Weapon B is my Melee set up.

That's probably why you're baffled.

You're effectively only utilising 5 skills and 1 ultimate during combat by not swapping weapons.

Utilising weapon swap, you now have 10 skills and 2 ultimates at your finger tips.

Generally I have a single target bar and an AoE bar. Works quite well. When i group, sometimes I switch to a healing/buff bar. Being able to clutch heal mid combat could be the thing that saves your group from a wipe. Since you only utilise one bar during combat, this is not something you can pull off.

Actually with my 1 hotbar I can DPS CC and Heal all on one bar no switching needed. I have been able to take on pretty much all content this way.

Granted, although someone utilising both bars will be more effective IMO.

Shaun98ca2

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

People complaining about the weapon swapping and how its getting them killed in battle baffles me.

I pretty much NEVER use weapon swap unless I wanna change up my play style Weapon A is my Range set up / Weapon B is my Melee set up.

That's probably why you're baffled.

You're effectively only utilising 5 skills and 1 ultimate during combat by not swapping weapons.

Utilising weapon swap, you now have 10 skills and 2 ultimates at your finger tips.

Generally I have a single target bar and an AoE bar. Works quite well. When i group, sometimes I switch to a healing/buff bar. Being able to clutch heal mid combat could be the thing that saves your group from a wipe. Since you only utilise one bar during combat, this is not something you can pull off.

Actually with my 1 hotbar I can DPS CC and Heal all on one bar no switching needed. I have been able to take on pretty much all content this way.

Granted, although someone utilising both bars will be more effective IMO.

Doesn't really sound efficient all the time spent weapon swapping. The delay in weapon swapping is intentional so that constantly weapon swapping during combat ISNT More efficient as most people WOULDNT want to play that way. I know im glad I don't have to weapon swap every 3 seconds.

PhoenixWing

This idea is not new. Diablo III also has this same system where you have to choose a small set of skills from a large pool. I think this promotes more thinking and specialization of your character.

Especially in this game where you can prolly get 30+ active skills to use and making all available at the same time would cripple people who want to do crafting too. If more skills are available at the same time then the game might need major overhaul to the skillpoint system.

RianaTheBosmer

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

The point is you're not supposed to have all the abilities on your bar all at once to handle every situation. It's to promote team work to accomplish your goals. If you're weak in one area, then a group member should be strong in that area to compensate.

This is a MMO after all, designed around group play.

It is? 1) Phasing; 2) Why do they have solo bosses that you have to fight.

MMOs as far as the ones I've played allow you to group for everything. The only game that doesn't is The Secret World. I think that ESO's devs borrowed too much from other games, GW2 (only ESO doesn't do it as well) and TSW (only ESO's solo is not as fun). I'm sure they borrowed from other games as well.

Don't get me wrong, I love this game but to suggest that there is any grouping in ESO that allows team support is an overstatement. This game is not designed around group play. This game is designed around solo play and grouping is painful.

Razzak

I agree with OP regarding the feeling of being limited. It does take more thinking about what skills you use as opposed to other games, but that just makes ESO a game where the skill of skill management (skill allocation) is more important than the skill of skill usage (actual combat). Another result of this system is that often we only use 1 or 2 sometimes 3 skills besides basic attacks. Out of 12. This especially shows in longer fights where I sometimes use skills that are not really needed, simply for some change.

To the OP:
Use "Wykkyd's Outfitter" mod. It's single most important tool for playing this game for me. I have 3 ST, 2 AOE and 1 leveling skills set for primary weapon and two gear/skill sets for my secondary weapon which I can change prior to every fight with one key press. I cannot emphasize enough how much this add-on helps me in not feeling boredom or repetitiveness. It does not remove the problem itself, but it does help to alleviate it some.

AlexanderTheGreat

I would have been much more satisfied with a 12 slot bar that doesn't change with weapon swap. One of many reasons this game was a huge disappointment for me.

Rocksteady

Whenever I think I don't have enough abilities at any one time I think back to EQ where I had 8 and if I used them all too quickly I would have to sit down for 20 mins lol

EDIT- It was so bad they implemented a tetris style game to keep people from getting bored... That's how they used to deal with people who couldn't handle stuff like this

Reykice

I agree its beyond crap and all this to try and get more money from console sales... its like THE insult for any PC gamer out there to destroy a game so you can try and squeeze more console money.

It will bite them in the ass anyway as most just finish the story and quit.... bored of the 5 skills they have been using since level 10. Maybe the next PC MMO will understand that if we wanted 5 skills we would already be playing on the console.

deathrament

It's just right the way it is actually. Feels great with 12.

nerevarine1138

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

I agree its beyond crap and all this to try and get more money from console sales... its like THE insult for any PC gamer out there to destroy a game so you can try and squeeze more console money.

It will bite them in the ass anyway as most just finish the story and quit.... bored of the 5 skills they have been using since level 10. Maybe the next PC MMO will understand that if we wanted 5 skills we would already be playing on the console.

This is a design decision that has nothing to do with consoles. Plenty of MMOs use a limited ability bar to force strategy on the player. Now, if you don't agree with that design decision, fine. But don't take the lazy route of "consoles suck," so that you don't have to actually come up with a cogent argument.

Oh, and for those of you complaining that it creates "cookie-cutter" builds: that's the last thing I've experienced with this game. However, a game like WoW, where I have 100s of buttons on the screen actually forces homogenous builds on the entire playerbase, because you only use the 3 most effective buttons and let the others serve as decorative flair.

ImaginaryDimension

The problem is we cannot "prepare" for a fight as every fight is different. If I am lucky enough to have to exact skills I need in order to kill that certain type of player, that is not skill... That is luck in chosing the correct skills that just so happened to be designed for that player.

For example burning talons is useless against a sorc, so when I fight a sorc, it's a wasted ability and I have to change my weapon to access Stone Giant skill or reflective scale.

I agree it would be silly to have every skill available because the skills don't have a cooldown timer so you'd survive almost every encounter, or atleast be able to get away from the enemy.

I would just like to see 8 or 9 abilities in 1 quick slot seeing as we have like 70+ skills to choose from. Bottom line is there are not enough skill slots to be able to be diverse enough for every encounter.

There isn't even a fast option to change skills, I'm using wykkidds outfitter but again you cannot use it in combat. So I might be running around with 2 bars of skills and come up against a sorc and I'll die or he will get away simply because I wasn't lucky enough to equip the correct skill.

I really think they should increase the skills from six per bar to 9 and try to work on the weapon swap mechanics so it's instant. I want to knock someone down and be able to swap weapon before they get up and teleport away -_-

nerevarine1138

ImaginaryDimension wrote: »

The problem is we cannot "prepare" for a fight as every fight is different. If I am lucky enough to have to exact skills I need in order to kill that certain type of player, that is not skill... That is luck in chosing the correct skills that just so happened to be designed for that player.
[etc., etc.]

Well, you can't prepare for a PvP encounter in that way, but it's extremely easy to switch out skills for PvE. In PvP, one might stop and think, "Gee, maybe the developers wanted to encourage grouping in PvP," instead of complaining that some builds are more effective against others.

fredarbonab14_ESO

After 2 months of play, I would be totally happy with 8 slots, that would eliminate the need for weapon swapping altogether, for me (DK).

Bolo_Bob

they did this because of consoles.

TigerLotus

If there would be more slots you would realize, that most spells do
the same or a variation of the same, so it's better to push 10times
one button than to push 10 different buttons and do the same
thing anyway

I would like a lot of buttons to change my play depending on
the situation and not to change my hotbar depending
on the situation - which has the same effect in the end
but takes more time and is not logical from the point of development.

Maybe this is another reason why the game can feel boring.
You have 5+1 Skills very fast and then just exchange some by
others. That does not feel like a progression or becoming stronger.
Especially because many spells are only slightly different and
they don't really improve your gameplay.

frwinters_ESO

6/12 skills is more then fine. Cant stand SWTOR and WOW with lines upon lines of abilities. This makes you think about builds and strstegise. TSW did it GW2 does it. Once they make weapon swap more streamlined it will be much better.

isengrimb16_ESO

I like how I can just have a small cluster of easy-to-reach keys for all my important keybinds.

Since I didn't want to have to sort through my whole entire keyboard to remap it just for WoW, I was a clicker there; I started falling into the click-habit in the Wildstar beta, too. And no, I don't feel like paying a hundred bucks for a fancy mouse. One more side key (I have one) might be nice, but I can just see my thumbs being all thumbs on such a device as a Razer.

Lox

ImaginaryDimension wrote: »

Does anyone else feel really handicapped with only having 12 skills available to use?

........

Sorcs or people who use 2 handed weapons are HEAVILY penalised by constantly having to change their weapon (even though it's the same weapon) to access the other 6 skills.

Its not a 'handicap' and sorcs etc are not 'penalised'. If everyone has the same limitations (which they do) then there are no handicaps or penalties.

Dual wielders and sword / board etc still have to change weapons to access the other skills, so there is no penalty for sorcs there.

I know people may not like this particular setup, which is absolutely fine, however lets try and over emphasise points etc by using terms that are in now way relevant

mutharex

So we went through all this for almost a month and now we start again. Funny times ahead...
Leave the dead horse resting

dietlime

Having redundant skills is poor game deign.

Meaningful choices are good game design.

tawok

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Alpha_Protocol

You need more than 12 abilities to fight something?

Weapon swapping is fine. The only problem I have is "occasional " lag between swaps. Most often it's fast and smooth. I don't use default control mapping so perhaps my setup works better for me.

If you use Wykkyd's Outfitter you can save several hotbar mappings and swap them out based on what you need at the time.

WhimsyDragon

I'd like to see slightly more skills available per bar. Nothing crazy, but say, at least 8. Otherwise, I end up always slotting the most useful and the vast majority of skills that are still nice but not the best are never used and not necessary to train and whatnot.

BBSooner

I like the limited skills. People aren't jacks of all trades, to truly get the most out of your character it takes planning and sacrifices. You have to make a conscious decision about what you want to use, and you have to live with the pros and cons of your build.

TheVindelator

I wish ESO's weapon swap was a little more like guild wars 2. It's nearly instant and you can queue up skills across the swap. Much more fluid.

Getorix

I didn't complain about the number of skills available at first, I decided to just give it a try first.

Well im vr10 now and I don't think theres enough skills available, As a tank I would like to be able to be set up for trash fights and boss fights and not have to change up skills every single time I encounter one or the other. Yeah sure you can weapon swap but its very clunky and you need to have 2 shields and 2 1 handers to make it work, and then you have no back up weapon style.

I think a lot of mmos have way too many skills available, in swtor my tank uses like 25-30 different buttons and that's just ridiculous, but 5 is too extreme in the opposite direction.

Phantorang

Sharee wrote: »

Since there are no cooldowns, technically all you need to kill is one skill, two if you want to use both magicka and stamina pools to power your damage output.

Mash it over and over and you're good to go(as proven by the unreal amount of bots geting by just spamming biting jabs)

This is a big change from the other MMO's, one that first needs to sink in for people to realize why 6/12 slots is enough. The 6 slots are not there to allow you to defeat mosters(you only need 1 for that), they are there to allow you to develop clever ways of combining various skills together to get spectacular results.

Basically every possible combination of skills is like a separate class.

You dont need any skills to kill, just attack and heavy attack, and of course Bash

Aoifesan

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

The combat isn't perfect, but the limited ability bar I'm fine with.

You actually have to put some thought into your build.

This. Can we stop resurrecting this debate now? The ability bar design is one of the best parts of the combat system.

One of the best parts to make it easy to port to the consoles, and for compatibility with a game controller yes. Strategy not really. I always know what I need to do, and how I SHOULD be able to do it. However, unlike Real life or even other games I have to sit down and 'bring the active abilities of the moment to the forefront of my mind'.

Totally ridiculous.

Aoifesan

Rocksteady wrote: »

Whenever I think I don't have enough abilities at any one time I think back to EQ where I had 8 and if I used them all too quickly I would have to sit down for 20 mins lol

EDIT- It was so bad they implemented a tetris style game to keep people from getting bored... That's how they used to deal with people who couldn't handle stuff like this

Early on yes. They eventually had 10 ability bars with ten hot keys easily available. I never needed more than 5, yet I could memorize where everything my character knew was so that I didn't have to worry about what do I know now. Which is about as unnatural as it gets.

Think of it this way. You are Mike Tyson, you were a boxer, you went to prison learned The shank and a bunch of shivvy moves and a little aikido to keep from getting shanked. Does he have to sit down and think about which one of the 1000s of combos he knows to mess you up?

No. He does not. He just whoops your ass.

isengrimb16_ESO

Gee, the one thing that always mystified me about martial artists is how they know what move/combo of moves to use when in a fast fight. I think they, too, go down a list of what techniques to use when. It's just that they can change up on the fly, and are trained to think fast.

Mike Tyson is nothing but a brainless thug, all he knows is "Mike Smash". To me, it's the difference between watching the Incredible Hulk and Goku. (and as much as I love the Hulk, Goku would whoop his arse simply because he thinks more about tactics and techniques.)