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Mechanic changes necessary for skill based PvP. (Root and Block)
Mykah
✭✭✭
Spending enough time in Pvp these past weeks I've come to two conclusions I believe are necessary to bring more reward for skillfull play by all classes.
Root needs to be changed so that a player under the effects of root is still able to freely move their reticle facing while remaining stationary. It its current form root is much more than a movement impairment, it is also a damage and counter CC impairment the moment an attacker stands beside or behind their rooted target. By allowing a rooted player to target around themselves in 360* root will be brought in line with snare mechanics while still being more powerful in that it prevents the use of gap closing abilities from being casted while under its effects.
In its current form root is more akin to stun than snare in its control utility which I believe is too powerfull due to the potential to chain CC using Root > Stun/KB rotations which share different immunity timers and different CC break skills. Root acting as a stun in this regard breaks the mechanical nature of it being a movement impairment, which is unbalanced when compared to the nature of snare mechanics, especially considering its chained CC potential.
Block needs to be changed so that it only protects from attacks in front of the player blocking, 180*. In its current form holding block while spamming instant abilities is far too effective in its defense and offensive utility. A player blocking should be punished for allowing an attacker to strike them from behind. A player should not be able to run away and pull up block to prevent CC and damage striking them from behind. This fix will bring a much higher level of skill to combat in that it rewards good player movement both offensively and defensively. In its current form block is a brainless end all be all defense and anti CC utility that has no draw backs when used in conjucture with instant abilities. This absolutely needs to be changed.
I believe with these two simple mechanical changes we will see a huge increase in the player skill cap reward for having good movement reflex while also bringing into line the more OP yet mechanically simple to use playstyles currently dominating PvP.
Root needs to be changed so that a player under the effects of root is still able to freely move their reticle facing while remaining stationary. It its current form root is much more than a movement impairment, it is also a damage and counter CC impairment the moment an attacker stands beside or behind their rooted target. By allowing a rooted player to target around themselves in 360* root will be brought in line with snare mechanics while still being more powerful in that it prevents the use of gap closing abilities from being casted while under its effects.
In its current form root is more akin to stun than snare in its control utility which I believe is too powerfull due to the potential to chain CC using Root > Stun/KB rotations which share different immunity timers and different CC break skills. Root acting as a stun in this regard breaks the mechanical nature of it being a movement impairment, which is unbalanced when compared to the nature of snare mechanics, especially considering its chained CC potential.
Block needs to be changed so that it only protects from attacks in front of the player blocking, 180*. In its current form holding block while spamming instant abilities is far too effective in its defense and offensive utility. A player blocking should be punished for allowing an attacker to strike them from behind. A player should not be able to run away and pull up block to prevent CC and damage striking them from behind. This fix will bring a much higher level of skill to combat in that it rewards good player movement both offensively and defensively. In its current form block is a brainless end all be all defense and anti CC utility that has no draw backs when used in conjucture with instant abilities. This absolutely needs to be changed.
I believe with these two simple mechanical changes we will see a huge increase in the player skill cap reward for having good movement reflex while also bringing into line the more OP yet mechanically simple to use playstyles currently dominating PvP.
5
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Mykah✭✭✭For those interested you can view my other suggestions to balance PvP here:
Make Bolt Escape cost 20% of the Magicka Pool.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/97015/make-bolt-escape-cost-20-of-the-magicka-pool/p1
Make DKs Talons a one time a one time AE so it can be Blocked.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/98642/make-dks-talons-a-one-time-ae-so-it-can-be-blocked/p1Edited by Mykah on 18 May 2014 17:392 -
Mykah✭✭✭Thank you for your time in considering these suggestions.
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NandredSoul ShrivenI left a post in reddit that mirrors what you posted! I totally agree with your two mechanic changes. It will make DK's more varied in builds other than sword and board + class skill spam.
The "hold right mouse button" for all combat is a dumb mechanic that was clearly overlooked for balance. If they weren't able to cast while blocking, i think it would have balance in the 360 block department. But since they can block and spam instant spells, its really brainless play on the DK's PoV as everyone around them melts in frustration as the dmg they do has a 80% mitigation to a blocking char with a shield.1 -
Sheneria✭✭✭yea i feel that zos lost control of balance in beta, thanks to the limited number of PTS players that keep the FOTM builds to themselfs.
First thing that must go is 360 blocking (and fire the dude that came up with such a stupid idea), up the cost of blocking attacks and dodging by a good 20-30%, so that med armor is usefull again.Edited by Sheneria on 18 May 2014 21:092 -
thelg✭✭✭You can't change block to be not 360 degrees unless you have collision detection.
Agreed on immobilize1 -
Harakh✭✭✭yea i feel that zos lost control of balance in beta, thanks to the limited number of PTS players that keep the FOTM builds to themselfs.
First thing that must go is 360 blocking (and fire the dude that came up with such a stupid idea), up the cost of blocking attacks and dodging by a good 20-30%, so that med armor is usefull again.
Increasing dodge cost will only hurt stamina builds which ar already nearly useless.
Die Welt in einem Sandkorn sehen
Und den Himmel in einer wilden Blume;
Die Unendlichkeit in der Handfläche halten
Und die Ewigkeit in einer Stunde.1 -
Mykah✭✭✭You can't change block to be not 360 degrees unless you have collision detection.
Agreed on immobilize
This same thought came to mind when I was hashing out these ideas. I played DaoC and it was a common tactic to walk "through" your target and use a /face bind to auto 180* and strike your targets backside.
While I am for colision detection, I am not adept in programming enough to understand server lag issues involved with that feature, but it is my understanding collision detection takes a huge amount of server and connection data power to work.
With that in mind I understand the devs leaving in out.
With blocking reticle facing in mind, and that there is no /face or /follow features in this game, I do not think a 180* active block without collision detection would be unbalanced simply due to the fact that if a player runs through a target holding block they still have to manually turn around, giving the player blocking an equal opportunity to turn around and block the incoming attack.1 -
Infraction✭✭✭The block issue would just reward players for flanking right now against people that just hold block and let themselves be beat on while throwing out instants.0
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Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh well , being a player that does not play from the US , but still needs to be in the NA server , i already deal with the delay in blocking , even with it 360 , if i becomes 180 , well , lets say it will only work on mobs mostly lols.
Still , i can see why people who dont need to worry about latency , want this , so I wont really take sides on this."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor0 -
Bergs✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Oh well , being a player that does not play from the US , but still needs to be in the NA server , i already deal with the delay in blocking , even with it 360 , if i becomes 180 , well , lets say it will only work on mobs mostly lols.
Still , i can see why people who dont need to worry about latency , want this , so I wont really take sides on this.
A well thought out and rational comment thinking about the view of others?
You do realize this is the internet... right?
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Mykah✭✭✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Oh well , being a player that does not play from the US , but still needs to be in the NA server , i already deal with the delay in blocking , even with it 360 , if i becomes 180 , well , lets say it will only work on mobs mostly lols.
Still , i can see why people who dont need to worry about latency , want this , so I wont really take sides on this.
Great post sir, very understanding.
Also keep in mind you will still be able to block most range attacks pretty easily even with a big latency, not to mention doing some flank damage of your own!Edited by Mykah on 20 May 2014 16:090 -
thelg✭✭✭TTK in large fights will drop. Anything past 4vs4 and you you gona have people dropping much faster. I am not sure thats a good thing.
What I would like to see is a damage debuf on instant skills when used through a block. Maybe start with 15-20% and then adjust. I also think that more of the damage should have been through things that require you not to block like light attack, channeled skills etc0 -
Mykah✭✭✭TTK in large fights will drop. Anything past 4vs4 and you you gona have people dropping much faster. I am not sure thats a good thing.
What I would like to see is a damage debuf on instant skills when used through a block. Maybe start with 15-20% and then adjust. I also think that more of the damage should have been through things that require you not to block like light attack, channeled skills etc
I could see some sort of middle ground with this in mind, something like blocking is the same in the front 180*, in the back 180* it decreases damage taken by 30%, CC and debuff effects still land though.
What are your thoughts?
(I also like your damage debuff idea for instant abilities!)0 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They don't need full collision.
If they change it so block is 180 degrees in front of you, they can just make it so you can't walk through a target who is blocking.0
