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Make DKs Talons a one time AE so it can be Blocked.
Mykah
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There is simply no way for a melee player to face a DK using talons when they are constantly rooted in melee range. The DK is able to reapply this AE ground root every 4 seconds, making them practically untouchable by other melee classes in Pvp.
The best fix for this imbalance would be to change Talons to a one time area effect spell rather than a continuous ground AE. Talons' effects would still last 4 seconds on the targets it initially hits, but it would be a one time effect, rather than reapplied an endless amount of times within those 4 seconds. With this change, after being rooted, a target could then dodge roll to break this root, and would still take the full 4 seconds damage over time or melee debuff because they were hit with the initial blast. If a DK wants to root their target again, they will have to recast Talons with their target in range to reapply its effects.
Now I know the counter argument to this thread by DKs will be "There is a snare immunity incoming". I would like to pre-emptively counter this argument in saying, individual snare immunity is not enough to balance Talons. Even with a snare immunity, Talons being able to auto-root target after target for a single cast from 1 DK is grossly overpowered.
"Why?" the DKs might ask. One word... BLOCK. It is impossible to block talons in its current form which is the actual reason it is so grossly overpowered in PvP. This is the real reason the skill needs to be changed. A DK can block practically everything thrown at them, but they are given a AE CC that negates other melees effectiveness which it itself cannot be blocked.
The imbalance is very clear when viewed in these simple terms. The necessary fix is also quite clear, change Talons to a one time area effect cast so that it can be blocked.
The best fix for this imbalance would be to change Talons to a one time area effect spell rather than a continuous ground AE. Talons' effects would still last 4 seconds on the targets it initially hits, but it would be a one time effect, rather than reapplied an endless amount of times within those 4 seconds. With this change, after being rooted, a target could then dodge roll to break this root, and would still take the full 4 seconds damage over time or melee debuff because they were hit with the initial blast. If a DK wants to root their target again, they will have to recast Talons with their target in range to reapply its effects.
Now I know the counter argument to this thread by DKs will be "There is a snare immunity incoming". I would like to pre-emptively counter this argument in saying, individual snare immunity is not enough to balance Talons. Even with a snare immunity, Talons being able to auto-root target after target for a single cast from 1 DK is grossly overpowered.
"Why?" the DKs might ask. One word... BLOCK. It is impossible to block talons in its current form which is the actual reason it is so grossly overpowered in PvP. This is the real reason the skill needs to be changed. A DK can block practically everything thrown at them, but they are given a AE CC that negates other melees effectiveness which it itself cannot be blocked.
The imbalance is very clear when viewed in these simple terms. The necessary fix is also quite clear, change Talons to a one time area effect cast so that it can be blocked.
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Mykah✭✭✭For those interested you can view my other suggestions to balance PvP here:
Mechanic Changes Necessary for Skill Based PvP. (Root and Block)
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/98661/mechanic-changes-necessary-for-skill-based-pvp-root-and-block/p1
Make Bolt Escape cost 20% of the Magicka Pool.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/97015/make-bolt-escape-cost-20-of-the-magicka-pool/p1Edited by Mykah on 18 May 2014 17:400 -
Mykah✭✭✭Thank you for your time in considering these suggestions.
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JosephChip✭✭✭The best fix for this imbalance would be to change Talons to a one time area effect spell rather than a continuous ground AE. Talons' effects would still last 4 seconds on the targets it initially hits, but it would be a one time effect, rather than reapplied an endless amount of times within those 4 seconds. With this change, after being rooted, a target could then dodge roll to break this root, and would still take the full 4 seconds damage over time or melee debuff because they were hit with the initial blast. If a DK wants to root their target again, they will have to recast Talons with their target in range to reapply its effects.
Isn't this exactly how it is right now?
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bitaken✭✭✭✭✭OP has so many nerf this nerf that threads - there is absolutely zero reason to listen to any of his "X abilitiy is OP, NERF IT!!" Most of this complaints stem from the fact that he is likely playing a NB and gets rocked most of the time in 1v1 fights.PvP Lead Officer for Einherjar
Member of Einherjar and associated guilds since 2001
A multi Gaming community of players.0 -
Mykah✭✭✭JosephChip wrote: »The best fix for this imbalance would be to change Talons to a one time area effect spell rather than a continuous ground AE. Talons' effects would still last 4 seconds on the targets it initially hits, but it would be a one time effect, rather than reapplied an endless amount of times within those 4 seconds. With this change, after being rooted, a target could then dodge roll to break this root, and would still take the full 4 seconds damage over time or melee debuff because they were hit with the initial blast. If a DK wants to root their target again, they will have to recast Talons with their target in range to reapply its effects.
Isn't this exactly how it is right now?
Currently it is an AE ground spell that creates a persistant radius of effect for the 4 second duration, meaning that if something walks into the radius even after its cast they are immedietly rooted, if they dodge roll and remain in the radius they are rooted again, if they dodge roll out of the radius then re-enter it they are rooted again. It in no way can be blocked.2 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
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I'm pretty sure it doesn't do that.JosephChip wrote: »The best fix for this imbalance would be to change Talons to a one time area effect spell rather than a continuous ground AE. Talons' effects would still last 4 seconds on the targets it initially hits, but it would be a one time effect, rather than reapplied an endless amount of times within those 4 seconds. With this change, after being rooted, a target could then dodge roll to break this root, and would still take the full 4 seconds damage over time or melee debuff because they were hit with the initial blast. If a DK wants to root their target again, they will have to recast Talons with their target in range to reapply its effects.
Isn't this exactly how it is right now?
Currently it is an AE ground spell that creates a persistant radius of effect for the 4 second duration, meaning that if something walks into the radius even after its cast they are immedietly rooted, if they dodge roll and remain in the radius they are rooted again, if they dodge roll out of the radius then re-enter it they are rooted again. It in no way can be blocked.
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Yeah, I am DK and it is not persistant. We need to cast it once and if you are in the 8 meter radius you get caught and if you roll out of it we need to recast it, costing roughly 800 magika.
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rophez_ESO✭✭✭✭✭JosephChip wrote: »The best fix for this imbalance would be to change Talons to a one time area effect spell rather than a continuous ground AE. Talons' effects would still last 4 seconds on the targets it initially hits, but it would be a one time effect, rather than reapplied an endless amount of times within those 4 seconds. With this change, after being rooted, a target could then dodge roll to break this root, and would still take the full 4 seconds damage over time or melee debuff because they were hit with the initial blast. If a DK wants to root their target again, they will have to recast Talons with their target in range to reapply its effects.
Isn't this exactly how it is right now?
Currently it is an AE ground spell that creates a persistant radius of effect for the 4 second duration, meaning that if something walks into the radius even after its cast they are immedietly rooted, if they dodge roll and remain in the radius they are rooted again, if they dodge roll out of the radius then re-enter it they are rooted again. It in no way can be blocked.
Uh, no. It works exactly as you are asking for it to work. Make a newbie DK and at least learn about what you are trying to get nerfed.
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Raggok✭✭Currently it is an AE ground spell that creates a persistant radius of effect for the 4 second duration, meaning that if something walks into the radius even after its cast they are immedietly rooted, if they dodge roll and remain in the radius they are rooted again, if they dodge roll out of the radius then re-enter it they are rooted again. It in no way can be blocked.
Are you 100% sure about this? I've seen many cases where I have dodge rolled only to have the root immediately reapplied at the end of the dodge roll but I attributed this to the DK recasting talons. If it is working as you say it is that would explain the instant reapplication of talons that I've seen so often, but... if it is really working that way then my confidence in the developers has dropped even lower and that is saying something.
I'd love to see video confirmation and testing on this one way or the other. I can't ask my friends because most of them who were playing DK quit the game a good time back because of how stupidly broken easy DK was to play in PvP and PvE.
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Mykah✭✭✭I will have to check with my guild DKs about this then.
In either case, I dont believe Talons can be blocked.1 -
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO✭✭✭✭DK as a class has no mobility that is why they have grab root slows. If you do this you will force us to go sword and board or 2H.
Not to mention majority of our damage is one type. We have no execute and our spells are short range.Edited by JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO on 19 May 2014 16:160 -
JosephChip✭✭✭Talons cost a lot to cast and they are a one time cast. If they worked like the op says they would be completely ridiculous. Anyone would suffer insane damage just by standing near a DK, nevermind the root. Are you even thinking about what you are saying?
In any case I have rolled away from talons plenty of times, and if you roll in the opposite direction of the caster, chanses are he won't be in range to reapply it to you immediately. He will need to charge/pull you or somehow move closer. Also you know you can use some cc of your own, right? Like knocking him down/back and then roll away.0