why is the flying blade being made to do less damage?

Gilvoth

i am a duel wield dagger user and im allready easy to kill. i depend on escape with invisibility but you made that so sorcerer can remove my invisibility, and also i cant escape properly if im going to die because of no true escape due to 2.5 sec invis is just not enough. sometimes it works but 60% of the time i am seen if i was fighting close in pvp and 100% of the time in pve i am seen immediate after the invis wares off.
so, at that point i trust that flying blade to help to slow them down as i do all i can to escxape from dying because our nightblades simply are weak and die easy.
but now your taking the flying blade damage away and even making it use even more stamina?
zenimax i think you honestly hate dark elf duel wield dagger builds because you allready made us weak to start and now going to make us even weaker?
zenimax you like to see us dark elf or elf ingeneral die easily ?
i cannot for the life of me wrap my head around why you would want to weaken the damage of flying blade and make it cost more stamina to throw it ....

Reykice

They don`t care about melee users that much... magic is already better and it looks like they want to keep it like that. The destruction staff is getting buffed in the same patch that nerfs Flying Blade so that should give you a hint...

Gilvoth

that is beyond horrible. i just dont understand.
and to add to this they made it so my ultimate (vampire invisibility escape) will not stay charged after 5 min of non combat. i charged it so i could escape befor entering combat so i would have an escape if need but that cant work cause they made ultimate with a stupid 5 min removal if not in combat ...

hasselhoffman

I haven't heard anything about reducing it's damage, only increasing its stamina to use.

Maverick827

hasselhoffman wrote: »

I haven't heard anything about reducing it's damage, only increasing its stamina to use.

Which reduces its DPS.

Wifeaggro13

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

They don`t care about melee users that much... magic is already better and it looks like they want to keep it like that. The destruction staff is getting buffed in the same patch that nerfs Flying Blade so that should give you a hint...

Idiotic of them. No one will use melee at all.

Maverick827

I'm very disappointed that this Nerf remained in the patch notes. I'll be very interested to see the group makeup of the Trials leaderboards.

kitsinni

Maverick827 wrote: »

I'm very disappointed that this Nerf remained in the patch notes. I'll be very interested to see the group makeup of the Trials leaderboards.

Probably 8 DK 3 sorc and a templar. All using a staff.

Gilvoth

i promise you wont see ANY nightblade duel wield on the leader boards in the stupid craiglist expansion!

steven.flemingub17_ESO

100% of the time in pve i am seen immediate after the invis wares off.

This actually bugs me quite a bit. My natural feeling is that if I go invis, then I should lose aggro completely, and when invis wears off I should now be in stealth. If I attack while invis then fine, it breaks. But the way it currently works is that if I spam invis and run 100 years away while still invis, the instant invis wears off the pve mobs IMMEDIATELY know where I am and start attacking me again. That just doesn't flow well. That's not even how it works in pvp, where real players have to take a moment relocate you, and sometimes don't.

Just seems the mob leashing mechanic is a bit broken with this skill.

Gilvoth

you are correct steven

smercgames_ESO

Maverick827 wrote: »

hasselhoffman wrote: »

I haven't heard anything about reducing it's damage, only increasing its stamina to use.

Which reduces its DPS.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't lower it's DPS. It lowers it's efficiency but don't confuse the simple minded people and say it lowers their DPS because then more posts like this one will come out saying OMG YOU NERFED THE DAMAGE!?!? when they didn't touch the dmg. People get confused easy.

I do understand you meant that you will run out of stamina faster meaning you can use the ability less times which then means you did less dmg before your stamina reached the point where you could no longer use it and had to wait for it to regen.

zhevon

steven.flemingub17_ESO wrote: »

100% of the time in pve i am seen immediate after the invis wares off.

This actually bugs me quite a bit. My natural feeling is that if I go invis, then I should lose aggro completely, and when invis wears off I should now be in stealth. If I attack while invis then fine, it breaks. But the way it currently works is that if I spam invis and run 100 years away while still invis, the instant invis wears off the pve mobs IMMEDIATELY know where I am and start attacking me again. That just doesn't flow well. That's not even how it works in pvp, where real players have to take a moment relocate you, and sometimes don't.

Just seems the mob leashing mechanic is a bit broken with this skill.

If you have run away at that point they home-in and rush you; sucks in a major way. The mob agro mechanic is just ridiculous. And of course the fact the minute they break off chasing you; they immediately are back a full health.

GeeYouWhy

zhevon wrote: »

If you have run away at that point they home-in and rush you; sucks in a major way. The mob agro mechanic is just ridiculous. And of course the fact the minute they break off chasing you; they immediately are back a full health.

And the mechanic that they immediately stop casting their Area Effect spells when you go invisible, is that broken too? Because if they were to simply to finish that casting they would hit you and make you visible again.

The mobs reacquiring you doesn't save their life in the end, I still kill them after popping invisibility again and then attacking. IMO Invisibility is if anything overpowered in PvE, but since it's the only thing saving the NB from complete uselessness, I don't mind.

Maverick827

smercgames_ESO wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

hasselhoffman wrote: »

I haven't heard anything about reducing it's damage, only increasing its stamina to use.

Which reduces its DPS.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't lower it's DPS. It lowers it's efficiency but don't confuse the simple minded people and say it lowers their DPS because then more posts like this one will come out saying OMG YOU NERFED THE DAMAGE!?!? when they didn't touch the dmg. People get confused easy.

I do understand you meant that you will run out of stamina faster meaning you can use the ability less times which then means you did less dmg before your stamina reached the point where you could no longer use it and had to wait for it to regen.

An abity that deals 100 damage and costs 100 stamina does less DPS than an ability that deals 100 damage and costs 50 stamina when stamina is not infinite.

Erock25

Maverick827 wrote: »

smercgames_ESO wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

hasselhoffman wrote: »

I haven't heard anything about reducing it's damage, only increasing its stamina to use.

Which reduces its DPS.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't lower it's DPS. It lowers it's efficiency but don't confuse the simple minded people and say it lowers their DPS because then more posts like this one will come out saying OMG YOU NERFED THE DAMAGE!?!? when they didn't touch the dmg. People get confused easy.

I do understand you meant that you will run out of stamina faster meaning you can use the ability less times which then means you did less dmg before your stamina reached the point where you could no longer use it and had to wait for it to regen.

An abity that deals 100 damage and costs 100 stamina does less DPS than an ability that deals 100 damage and costs 50 stamina when stamina is not infinite.

You're really splitting hairs here but DPS is damage per second therefore is based upon a unit of time that is 1 second long and therefore stamina cost is irrelevant.

altrego9920_ESO

Erock25 wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

smercgames_ESO wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

hasselhoffman wrote: »

I haven't heard anything about reducing it's damage, only increasing its stamina to use.

Which reduces its DPS.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't lower it's DPS. It lowers it's efficiency but don't confuse the simple minded people and say it lowers their DPS because then more posts like this one will come out saying OMG YOU NERFED THE DAMAGE!?!? when they didn't touch the dmg. People get confused easy.

I do understand you meant that you will run out of stamina faster meaning you can use the ability less times which then means you did less dmg before your stamina reached the point where you could no longer use it and had to wait for it to regen.

An abity that deals 100 damage and costs 100 stamina does less DPS than an ability that deals 100 damage and costs 50 stamina when stamina is not infinite.

You're really splitting hairs here but DPS is damage per second therefore is based upon a unit of time that is 1 second long and therefore stamina cost is irrelevant.

Actually maverick has it more accurate than you, DPS is exactly that, damage per second, not the single use of the skill but its damage over a given amount of time. Increasing the stamina cost of something is, in effect nerfing its overall DPS in so much of only using a skill 4 times instead of 5. You have now taken a huge percentage hit on DPS. It would be the same thing if instead of stamina everything had a use counter on it, changing the amount of times you are able to use something is in fact nothing but a nerf

Jeremy_gelber_ESO

if yall are going to continue. lets at least set proper terms, burst and sustained dps.

using a 100 damage skill that costs 100 stamina as the base. with identical cast times
a 200 damage skill that costs 200 stamina would have higher burst dps and lower sustained dps
a 75 damage skill that cost 50 stamina would have lower burst dps but better sustained dps.

now that thats settled we can talk about why it was nerfed when it wasnt over powered in the 1st place.

Gilvoth

well then do tell jeremy because from where i stand as a nightblade dependant on physical damage i see no where is this a good thing.
infact, what i see is basicly zenamax saying the following.

"we can see that nightblades use the throwing dagger and not using other skills that we created so lets make the throwing dagger cost alot more to use."

like maybe forcing us to use skills we dont like? it's all i can gather that has happened. basicly i was inlove with the throwing blade because i love small weapons and daggers and throwing stars but, since this has happened i kinda dont use the throwing dagger anymore, i love morrowind and i love eso ingeneral but zenimax is making it really hard for me to keep interested in the nightblade class. i am not sure if this is intentional but if it is then thier plan is working rather well.

LariahHunding

But this don't apply to the VR mobs throwing daggers

smercgames_ESO

Flying blade is not a NB skill. It is a weapon skill. Everyone has access to it so changing flying blade's stamina cost to be the same as the fan morph is because Flying blade was probably bugged and someone put the wrong number in or forgot to change it to be higher in a alpha/beta patch or something.. Therefore in my eyes this is a fix.. and a fix is not the same as a nerf even if it makes the ability not as good. All skills and their morphs as far as I know have the same cost.

Also back tot he DPS discussion, I interpret DPS as how much damage an ability does per second regardless of the resources it uses to cast it. If it does 100 damage and can be used once per second I consider the skill to have 100 DPS not "100 DPS until you run out of stamina" because obviously you will run out of stamina at some point but then you are talking about Damage to Stamina ratio. When you consider in burst you try to take the highest damaging ability that can be performed in the shortest amount of time and resources do not matter. In that context the damage on flying blade was not touched so when you say they are nerfing Flying blade to do less damage in most discussions that is not true. Now if we are talking about sustained damage then it took a hit in it's sustained but in that case why aren't you using blood craze and rapid strikes because don't they do more sustained damage anyways?

SlasherZet

The point is not about DPS purely without stamina, it's about sustained DPS. What would be the point of pure DPS with limitless stamina? You'll never see that. If you run out of stamina, you're not doing DPS. You will run out of stamina faster than before therefore you'll be doing less damage over the same period of time. Ergo less DPS.

smercgames_ESO

So with the logic that fixing the stamina lowers the "damage" of the skill.. that means my stamina was nerfed and it nerfs any other stamina skills on my bar because I have less stamina to use it with so I need to put more points into stamina to offset that but that means less points in magicka which reduces my magicka skills damage so damn you ZoS for nerfing my veiled strike damage by fixing the stamina on flying blade!

I know we are mainly just bickering about wording but it just annoys me when people describe things wrong.