Spoiler - after coldharbour? help needed please

Elirienne

Spoiler below. Please dont read if you do not want spoilers.

Can someone help please?

So I go to stirk.The world leaders convene. Send me to coldharbour. I defeat the big baddie. Finish my story, too.

What happens then to the world leaders? I assume someone goes to Stirk to tell them we've won. Where do they go? Stirk cannot be gone back to, after you leave it - unless I ammistaken.

Where is Ayrenn? Where is Razum-dar now?

(I know there is a copy of Ayrenn in Skywatch , but thats an earlier version with the auridon quest. I know they are also at Dune, because of the bug that keeps the npcs there even after completion - I am not asking for these.)

I have a horrible feeling that this is classic "ESO" ending, as in - oh? you're done saving the world? great..lets not acknowledge you anymore...

But this is incredibly underwhelming.


So I am now v5, working through the otherfactions, but where is my beloved queen and my friend Raz? Where did they go after Stirk? Where canI find them again?

Elirienne

Really, noone knows? Then it must be as i feared - lazy storywriting, just like at the end of skyrim. Oh ESO

crislevin

You probably find them in the temple in reaper March, lol

Its only virtual world, you know.

Hypersillyman

This is my primary problem with the ending of the storyline, and veteran ranks in general. There is no sense of accomplishment. There is no sense of completeness. There is no sense of finality. You beat the bad guys, win the day, save the world, and all you get is a crazy man sending you back in time to start a quest grind for the enemy factions. They really need to fix this. At this point, there is NO POINT to completing the game other than an endless grind. You beat a friggin' DAEDRIC PRINCE into submission, and then the storyline just abruptly stops with no follow up. And yes, they did the EXACT same thing in Skyrim, and it disappointed the hell out of me.

This complete and total lack of a finish to the core game is going to absolutely destroy the chances for long term survival for this game. Thankfully, it is infinitely fixable, and the fix is incredibly simple. CHANGE IT!! Add some finality to it. Add a cinematic scene that brings the whole thing home. Add in a cinematic sequence that takes you back home to your faction's capital city where the leaders of said faction are all there for a grand ceremony declaring you the hero of the day. Add in some kind of cinematic sequence after the defeat of Molag Bal that shows the remaining companions moving on with their lives, with your name on their lips. By the Gods above add in SOMETHING. As it is now, completing the core 1-50 story, both the faction and personal stories, is an unadulterated letdown. A buzzkill of the highest order.

I don't know how the hell Zeni let this lack of final satisfaction make it in, but it is now in their hands to make it better. I hope they listen, I hope they care, I hope they work towards positive change. I love this game. I really, truly do. But this is a serious problem and needs immediate attention.

Just my opinion of course.

Enjoy.

Gaudrath

While I agree that the ending should have been handled with more finesse, from talking to pretty much every NPC I ran into since that final battle in the Vortex and the duel with Mr. Bal, I got the impression that all what we did was to delay things. Molag Bal certainly didn't seem irked that much that we stopped the Planemeld, trashed his favourite toys and then cut of his hands.

In fact he seemed almost pleased. Interesting. So basically the story, as various NPC's point out multiple times, is just beginning. Makes sense they didn't "wrap things up" because there is nothing to wrap up. Surviving companions go on their R&R, Tharn ran away with the Amulet, I'm sure we'll have some words with him later over that, and Meridia gifts us with the ability to really get to know the other side - because Molag Bal is the true enemy and the Three Banners War is right up his alley.

The only thing I don't like is the time travel bit. Very clumsy, as far as story telling goes. I actually had to rearrange quite a lot of it in my head to keep the immersion and continuity of my character. They could have come up with a better variation. As far as I am concerned, Meridia cloaked me in a powerful illusion that prevents the enemy faction from recognizing me. That's it. They can stuff time travel where the sun doth not shineth.

Elirienne

So it seems that it does seem a bit underwhelming to everyone. Sigh. Same thing happened in skyrim.

Still loving the game to bits, but some sort of wrapping up could have been part of it. For example, I would like to know, even though I am adventuring in v zones, where my faction leader is, for example. If we take out the old versions and the bugs, they are virtually nowhere.

Curious to see what happens after I finish the pact quest line. I assume the npcs will not reconvene in stirk, again...?

Gaudrath

Elirienne wrote: »

Curious to see what happens after I finish the pact quest line. I assume the npcs will not reconvene in stirk, again...?

Well, I did free Mannimarco... guess he's at it again. Sorry!

Elirienne

i didn't.. so what then?
also, i did let Estre live - where is she now???

Gaudrath

Elirienne wrote: »

i didn't.. so what then?
also, i did let Estre live - where is she now???

Erm... uhh... I know!

/sanctimonious voice
One cannot know the depths of Oblivion.

The problem with storylines and MMOs is yet to be solved by game writers. GW2 has the same issue and I had a huge discussion there about how the story ends and what does it all mean for continuity of our characters - basically the writers used the same time travel gimmick as in this game and broke the continuity of the game world in order to have a classic story with a beginning and an end, ending up with pretty much neither.

MMO stories by nature should be endless and made to be endless even if that means telling the player that no, they are not THE HERO and all they did had impact on the personal existence of their character, but not so much on the overall game world.

That doesn't mean the story would not be engaging or that it would be bad. Planescape: Torment has probably the best CRPG story out there and it is all about you. You don't get to rearrange the world(s), you don't get to be the one true hero that shapes history.

Because that's what the player is - just one out of many. You can't have 100 000 Luke Skywalkers or a million Harry Potters, and allow them to make different decisions... because you inevitably run into that pesky open ended overworld where those decisions cannot apply because of other Luke Skywalkers and Harry Potters.

So the story should have been more personal. About the growth and evolution of your character. About the quest to reclaim your soul and face the clearly impossible. So you duel Molag Bal and defeat him, but you only succeed in releasing your own soul from his clutches. You throw a wrench in his Planemeld, but ultimately, only delay it. He is, after all, a daedric God and you are just a mortal.

Afterwards, with the imminent threat of the Planemeld gone but not completely removed, Companions can finally take some time to follow their own paths. You go off to fight the War, or perhaps you decide to travel to other parts of Tamriel and continue your adventures. Meridia's gift can still stand, as an illusion to help you get by unrecognized in enemy lands.

There is no time travel. This is important as it preserves the continuity and coherence of the game world and your character.

Basically the story should be cyclical, not linear. Just like the game. A MMO is designed never to end. The story should be designed to match.

Of course, it's too late to change it now, so all we can do is perform some heavy editing in our heads and ignore the giant plot holes.

Elirienne

@Gaudrath Agree with much of what you said. But we could close down this little piece of story with minimal effort, no? Say we get back to th harborage after finishing it all, and get a scout finding me, saying the queen (king etc) wants to see me, as they heard about what happened. Bam, audience with the leader where they tell you that you did well, now go back to Caldwell, but we love you, here's a bitof xp and a smile. I'll be here if you want to chat, otherwise go, play the pact. Would be SO easy, so incredibly easy.

WhimsyDragon

It did feel a bit abrupt for me when I completed the main storyline and the guild storyline just because I had been seeing the same characters so often, however, I also believe it's likely that they're not entirely done yet. Maybe I'm wrong, but I kind of expect to see some of the remaining characters pop up in future content in some manner or another. I also imagine ESO will have a number of epic questlines beyond those offered at launch. MMOs are an ongoing experience and I don't expect an 'I've finished the game!' moment in the content.

Elirienne

@Adoryn let's hope you are right....

Thrawniel

Yeah, the ending is complete meh. Made a post about it too a while ago. Still would love to hear devs reasoning for not giving a conclusion. Why it was impossible for them to add ONE extra dialog with alliance leader after you defeat big bad?

Especially since they added several before the launch for the change with starting islands. If it was possible to add three boatmen a week before launch for something so unipmortanit (really, all it did was making life for botters easier), why they could not add one dialog to wrap up the story?

Just a pat on the back, something like 'You deserve a break after your big deed, so you are free to relax and adventure at your leisure, we will call upon you when we cannot do something without you again'. That would both wrap up the story and open it up for future updates. it would not end game's storyline entirely, since there would be promise of future adventures. But it would be a nice wrap up for the current game chapter. It's so easy, I cannot see a reason why it was not done. Would love for devs to explain.

Thrawniel

Elirienne wrote: »

Curious to see what happens after I finish the pact quest line. I assume the npcs will not reconvene in stirk, again...?

Nothing will happen at all. You finish Rift questline, and that's all. Sit on your virtual behind and wait for Craiglorn, Or pvp, if it is your thing.

Coldharbour was a one-time quest. Which is sad, because after veteran zones it would be more interesting, since you would know all NPCs, not just the ones of your faction.

Zershar_Vemod

Yeah, I'm not a fan at all with the ending not feeling like the end of the story (in a bad way). It felt like nothing was wrapped up, but just tossed aside. There really should have been something. Hell even jut having another instance of the Hallowed City but with all 3 factions there and celebrating.

Gaudrath

Thrawniel wrote: »

Elirienne wrote: »

Curious to see what happens after I finish the pact quest line. I assume the npcs will not reconvene in stirk, again...?

Nothing will happen at all. You finish Rift questline, and that's all. Sit on your virtual behind and wait for Craiglorn, Or pvp, if it is your thing.

Coldharbour was a one-time quest. Which is sad, because after veteran zones it would be more interesting, since you would know all NPCs, not just the ones of your faction.

This. They should have put Coldharbour at VR10, after you do every other alliance. It would make so much more sense. It would be more epic and difficult, as it should be, and you'd actually know who all these characters were... instead of "meeting" them in reverse.

Not really sure why they did it this way. I know veteran levels were tacked on because people complained about being excluded from other alliance content, but they could have reshuffled Coldharbour as well.

Elirienne

Gaudrath wrote: »

Thrawniel wrote: »

Elirienne wrote: »

Curious to see what happens after I finish the pact quest line. I assume the npcs will not reconvene in stirk, again...?

Nothing will happen at all. You finish Rift questline, and that's all. Sit on your virtual behind and wait for Craiglorn, Or pvp, if it is your thing.

Coldharbour was a one-time quest. Which is sad, because after veteran zones it would be more interesting, since you would know all NPCs, not just the ones of your faction.

This. They should have put Coldharbour at VR10, after you do every other alliance. It would make so much more sense. It would be more epic and difficult, as it should be, and you'd actually know who all these characters were... instead of "meeting" them in reverse.

Not really sure why they did it this way. I know veteran levels were tacked on because people complained about being excluded from other alliance content, but they could have reshuffled Coldharbour as well.

I never thought about this but this actually would have been amazing.

I really cannot understand why they did not include at least a lazy "your leader summons you - well done" 2 min quest.

henly1234

I really wanted to develop my char as a thief/assassin type so i played along with it in the mean time until the promised thieves guild, assassins guild came along but as an old wow player i assumed that it would take a lot longer than it did to reach cap, so here i am with a lvl 49.5 char stuck at that, killed Bal 3 times and still cant advance until Ive reach lvl 50 and then i get my soul back and go off to war, still not a thief/assassin, cant see it holding my attention much longer.

Elirienne

henly1234 wrote: »

I really wanted to develop my char as a thief/assassin type so i played along with it in the mean time until the promised thieves guild, assassins guild came along but as an old wow player i assumed that it would take a lot longer than it did to reach cap, so here i am with a lvl 49.5 char stuck at that, killed Bal 3 times and still cant advance until Ive reach lvl 50 and then i get my soul back and go off to war, still not a thief/assassin, cant see it holding my attention much longer.

Why are you stuck? How did you kill Molag BAl 3 times? Abandoned the quest?

Adramelach

You know what the wierdest thing is? For those that have done the end-game recently enough to recall the dialog? Recall how much foreshadowing was there, by BOTH Meridia and Molag Bal? How they talked about how we'd "attracted the attention" of many daedric princes? How Molag would have his eye on us, wasn't through with us? How Molag himself said he'd be back, how there were even worse beings to have as a tyrant than himself?

I could just go on and on... there were several minutes of dialog, all planting all sorts of "oh, you've not seen anything yet" foreshadowing. I'm not talking about one offhand comment tossed in or something. It was basically the central tenet of all the dialog before returning to Nirn.

Where the heck did all that go? O.o

It would have been far more logical, based on what happens, to have them both pretty much say "yeah, whatever, we're done with you mortal, don't let the door hit you on the way out" and flick us back to some mud puddle with their finger.

molyforest

It doesn't make any sense that you don't talk to Ayrenn at endgame.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

I concur with the general sentiments here; they can make it clear there is still more to come, and still give us a bit of celebration and closure with our chosen faction. Sure, there may be more after this in the future—but it isn't there NOW, and even if it was we've had places where we saved the day, got our pat on the back and still moved on afterward. Example case: the Silvenar's wedding. We watch the NPCs get married, everyone celebrates, and we're told we can stay and relax as long as we want—even if that only ends up being the thirty seconds it takes to leave town and head off for the next leg of the plot.