Loving VR Grind

mndfreeze

GamePlayer7 wrote: »

There's nothing grindy at all about the VR content. Anyone who thinks it is a grind has never really played a grindy game, that goes for fanboys and haters alike.

Plenty of F2P Korean MMOs out there where you will run out of quests and be forced to grind mobs for hours just to eek out a smidgen of a level. That's a grind. Having numerous quests to do which provide xp the whole way isn't a grind. It may be somewhat time consuming, but it's not grinding.

The issue in my mind is that people were probably looking for something new at 50, something to change up the experience a bit, but what they got was more questing, (two factions worth of questing, in fact). That is probably why people are unhappy, more so than just the time commitment.

What this guy said. Doing quests through the progressive story is the opposite of a grind. Grinding is killing the same mob or set of mobs over and over and over and over and over and over and over INSTEAD of following the normal quest pathway to progress. Or running the same dungeon over and over and over and over, etc to get your levels instead of following the laid out normal path (usually questing). The big difference between normal and vet content is just the reward feeling you get is a lot more spread out since you dont ding levels nearly as quick and you dont have all these new abilities to pick up or max out, etc. Instead of 1-50 in a single alliance now its 1-5 for entire alliance and 6-10 for the second.

I'm looking forward to it as I was really worried when I started leveling my 1-50 so fast, especially as a super casual gamer, that I would hit end game and run out of stuff WAY to quick. Thats what happened when I played neverwinter and some other mmo's before that. Get into it, hit max level really quick and then .... errrr.. uhhhhh herpaderpadooo nothing to doooooo.

I loved (and complained about it during) how long it took for those last 10 to 15 levels. When I hit 60 i REALLY felt like I had put some effort and time in.

Rev Rielle

'Leveling' period is not an accomplishment. It's something that happens whilst you're playing the game. It's a byproduct of playing. If it's the main reason someone plays, then I believe those people are grossly missing the point of this, and most every other western, MMO.

Tadhg_Longhouse

Rev Rielle wrote: »

'Leveling' period is not an accomplishment. It's something that happens whilst you're playing the game. It's a byproduct of playing. If it's the main reason someone plays, then I believe those people are grossly missing the point of this, and most every other western, MMO.

Could not agree more. I think there are a lot of people who make levelling their goal unfortunately.

Dustile

Mephos wrote: »

sadly the same that happend to vanilla WoW will happen to this game. non hardcore gamers are the majority. majority pays. changes will be done that majority stays in the game. easy as that.

I hope your wrong. Lord knows we don't need another WoW again, again... again.

ConquerorDromtar

Dear ZOS (if anyone's actually reading this),

For me VR content is summed up by the word Conflicted. Part of me (the completionist) thinks it's an awesome thing to be able to go through all of the PVE content on one character. The other part of me (the one that enjoys alts) hates that it's virtually a requirement.

Pros- I can FINALLY have one character in an MMO that can see and do everything within the confines of having a class. All zones, all achievements, all dungeons, everything. That's fantastic!

Cons- It's boring. While I love my main, there are times when I want to experience a new and different class and way to play the game. What's it like to be a Sorcerer or Nightblade instead of a DK? (See more below)

I TOTALLY get peoples' complaints about the character's story not being compelling after Coldharbour; I feel the same way. The story designers did such a good job of making me feel invested in the EP story that it feels somehow wrong to be going through the DC and AD content now. I would much prefer a continuous story line based solely on my character's chosen alliance from the very first second to the very last second I play the game.

On that same vein, I want to experience the DC and AD content with a character native to that alliance. I want to feel that same sense of investment in those alliances rather than feel like some sort of interloper with a Deus Ex Machina excuse for not being obliterated on sight by his mortal enemies.

While it's not the same a mob or dungeon grinding, VR questing is also a profound grind in the sense that, for me, it's going through the motions of something in order to achieve a goal set forth by the developers; getting to VR10 to be able to enjoy further content at the intended level. These days I'm clicking through quest dialog as quick as possible without reading it so there will be some modicum of replay value when I finally play an alt in those alliances. I personally enjoy mob grinding quite a bit and would be just as happy, maybe even happier, slaying my way through public dungeons and overland mobs to get VR credit. I know not everyone feels that way, and for those people, I'm glad the questing in other alliances is available to them.

All of this affects PVP as well. The story elements giving strong reason to be charging into battle against the vile AD and despicable DC. Now, after having started going through DC content the sense of conflict between alliances is reduced and PVP is starting to seem like just another activity to do in order to meet some predetermined level of experience; aka "grinding". The sense of a grand conflict isn't there. Instead, it's been replaced with a feeling of "ok, I need to kill as many other players as I can in order to get more AP so I can get better gear and experience points so I can survive exploring and questing in Cyrodiil.

PharmaChief

The magic word about VR content that will make everyone happy is choice. Being able to play all zones with one character is a good idea. Many people may get to attached with their in game alter ego and thus be unwilling to start a new character. Also many love the extra challenge and the freedom that comes from not having level restrictions. Yet people should be able to choose to advance their character another way, which at the moment is simply not realistic. Cyrodil could offer that alternative choice. All content, pve and pvp, in Cyrodil should offer enough experience and rewards that players could create VR10 avatars there in similar time frames as those doing quest grinding. The same should apply for veteran dungeons. If a VR1 character wants to do nothing other than veteran dungeon runs with friends, he should be able to reach VR10 in a competitive amount of gameplay hours.

Well that was lots of writing for stating the obvious but, what the heck, i did it anyway... good thing commenting is free!!

LonePirate

I need to clarify a couple of mistaken points here. First, regular VR mobs offer 42 VP each, which is much less than half of the XP earned by killing mobs before hitting the VR levels. To from VR1 to VR2, you need 456,000 VP which translates to just under 11,000 mob kills. Only the most absolute, extreme hardcore grinders will level Veteran ranks by grinding mobs considering how difficult they are to kill and how little the rewards are.

Secondly, each VR level requires 456,000 more VP than the previous level. The levels do not double or triple every time. VR2 requires 912,000 VP. VR3 requires 1,368,000 VP. VR10 requires 4,560,000 VP or over 108,000 mob kills (just for that level alone). The VP earned from VR mob kills needs a tenfold increase, not the slightly more than the doubling of the mob kill VP that is accompanying the 1.1 Craglorn patch.

Given the difficulty of killing VR mobs, 1,000 VP per kill, especially at VR 10, should be the bare minimum offered by the game. An alternative to the VR quest grind is desperately needed and I say that as someone who loves questing.

drogon1

Dustile wrote: »

I love that the grind to VR 10 is monumental task. Reminds me of vanilla WoW. You know, when you used to see a level 60 and say to yourself, "Wow, a level 60" So sick of the "QQ, I wanna be level capped already waaahh." Go play something else where you can have every class max level in a month or two. I hope Zeni doesn't nerf the grind because of all the softies. =(

I couldn't help but....smirk. Yep, ESO fanboi alert.

I play 4-5 different chars, between 22 and 27 (I love playing the xp-less dungeons), so nobody can accuse me of wanting to powerlevel. I love the ESO gameplay, experimenting with new builds, and the crafting. But come on, questing upon questing upon more questing...seriously? And tying character advancement primarily to this single style of gameplay? People actually feel like they've "accomplished" something grinding though all that repetitious dialogue and single-player objectives?

You fanboi's need a real job. I play video games for entertainment - purely entertainment - and leave real work (repetitious activity done for necessity) to the real world. I love challenge in a video game (which is why I don't group for all that already-faceroll single-player questing content, and prefer doing dungeons), but you fanboi's are on a different level completely lol.

A business savvy MMO developer should focus on how to ENTERTAIN the majority of gamers attracted to the MMO genre. And yes, this will require pleasing a bit more the particular niche players that MMO's happens to focus on - if it has one. So far, ESO seems to have two niche type of players - solo questers, and realm pvp'ers - which two probably don't intersect much.

I'll take the opposite tack from the OP. I think the game needs to appeal to more mainstream MMO types, not hard core solo questers like the OP. People should be able to advance equally through various activities - pvp, dungeons, as well as solo questing. At the moment, the game is too narrow to appeal to a large chunk of MMO players (due to the over-emphasis on questing), and the loss of subs will reflect it.

People need to remember that only players who still have a sub can post here. I cancelled but paid for 3 months, thinking erroneously that "Hey it's an MMO, there are many ways to advance in the game (not just questing)!" But my guess is that there are many more like me that cancelled and can no longer post.