DPS Parser Group - please add

Therium104

Please add a dps parser that tracks the damage and heals from other members of the group. How can this be a competitive mmo without access to something so basic and fundamental to game play. We were discussing it in the group today. Everyone thought is was stupid that thus is not available.

Can we get an add on for this? How was this game even released with a limitation this basic

e.gamemarkb14_ESO

Because group DPS / Heal meters do not = skill. This game is very different from those "other"games. Lots of groups are running dungeons and learning how to play while getting through it just fine.

Some VR content is a lot more challenging then others. If you want "competitive" game play in an MMO, this may not be the right fit for you. Maybe find or create your own guild and ask them to share their individual DPS charts with you?

It's refreshing to see a game that does not need or warrant such features and I do not see ZOS changing on this anytime soon.

TheGodless1

I have seen few games that have had parsers built in...always need a mod for it it seems...it also seems that you really miss those other games...you need to bring everything from there to here. I'm glad they don't have them. The game doesn't require it to function so therefore you don't either...you just WANT it...big difference...I want kids to stop ruining games with stupid things like this...but that's what I WANT...not what I get.

kirnmalidus

Please don't. The game isn't about tracking numbers, it's about paying attention to what's actually going on around you. And I'd prefer it stays that way, because that's how TES games always have been. Just because MMO X does it the way you want doesn't mean ESO should too.

I haven't looked into it (because it isn't something I want, obviously), but I would guess there is probably an add-on you can install that will give you what you want. My understanding is Foundry Tactical Combat is good at this sort of stuff (again, I'm not sure it has the specific information you are looking for because I don't use it).

Tr1n1ty

kirnmalidus wrote: »

Please don't. The game isn't about tracking numbers, it's about paying attention to what's actually going on around you. And I'd prefer it stays that way, because that's how TES games always have been. Just because MMO X does it the way you want doesn't mean ESO should too.

I haven't looked into it (because it isn't something I want, obviously), but I would guess there is probably an add-on you can install that will give you what you want. My understanding is Foundry Tactical Combat is good at this sort of stuff (again, I'm not sure it has the specific information you are looking for because I don't use it).

Yeah that's why there are clearly dps race bosses in the vet dungeons AND in the upcoming trials If u stay alive but do not dps u still die cuz u can't dodge if the room is only 1 ft. big or there are like 30-40 moving AEs in a small room if u're not fast enough

Lkory

DPS races maybe but not at the cost of killing all the support or not full dps builds. Everyone will end with the same stupid build and weapons if ESO go that way.

Like right now, i am ready to bet we will see groups of DKs not accepting any other class than maybe a templar to heal for those trials... that's gonna be fun

Gwarok

I have a special place on my ignore list for those that like to shove DpS meters down other gamer's throats!

#NOT NECESSARY!

Hadria

This game does not need any absolutely any of that BS from other mmos wish you people would understand this. Nope, everyday y'all come on here trying to change it into that *** we left already and are sick of.

Leesha

Yeah... no... just no. If you are concerned about the performance of others to the point of needing a meter, you are a prime candidate for forming your own groups with people you know. Dps/healing meters can be beneficial but in a game like this they are more harm than good. The last thing we need are the epeen meter spammers and the oh so elite who think everyone else should be up to their expectations.

There may be boss dps races but no one has any right to point fingers at anyone else without fully understanding the dynamics of each and every class/spec/gear combination.

Therium104

If you don't

Therium104

Sorry about the above post. Look. If you do not like a group parser then do not use one. If you don't like it in groups then do not be in that group.

What you want is up to you. If I WANT a group parser then I should have that option. Play the game how you want. I do not believe it is fair or good for this game to have this option taken away from players.

It is choice. I can choose how I want to play. You choose how you want to play. Do not be so conceited that you can dictate how I play this game.

Any questions?

Therium104

TheGodless1 wrote: »

I have seen few games that have had parsers built in...always need a mod for it it seems...it also seems that you really miss those other games...you need to bring everything from there to here. I'm glad they don't have them. The game doesn't require it to function so therefore you don't either...you just WANT it...big difference...I want kids to stop ruining games with stupid things like this...but that's what I WANT...not what I get.

I don't care what you want. I hope you don't care about what I want in the game. Regardless, we both deserve the right to decide for ourselves.

As a player I deserve the right to play the game how I want. If this includes a group parser then so be it.

If you don't like it then don't download it.

ESO Devs -> Please add a group parser in game or by add on so I as a player can decide if I want this or not. Give me the choice.

Audigy

Its sad that people depend on addons so much these days. They need them to sort their inventory, to find quest´s, track harvesting nodes down and finding mistakes in their own performance.

Oh wait! Actually nobody is using a dps meter to find his own flaws, but to harass others so he can disguise his bad movement, bad CC abilities behind a high number in regards of the DPS.

I say, step up your game and learn to play without these tools and ask what YOU did wrong or just form your own badass Elitist groups in private.

Thywin

Gwarok wrote: »

I have a special place on my ignore list for those that like to shove DpS meters down other gamer's throats

People "shoving dps meters down other gamers throats" are idiots. You cant stop people from beeing idiots by not allowing dps-meters, can you?

Here is my answer from this thread:

Thywin wrote: »

I cant imagine why they implement group-dps checks and do not implement a tool to measure group-dps. The gragoyle in the vet1 dungeon has 99k health and a 99 second enrage timer. This fight was obviously designed as a dps-check. If a group cannot output 1k dps it simply cannot win this fight (although healing through some seconds of the enrage is possible). So if three players make 250 dps and one player inflicts only 150 (leaving roles aside), the group just cant win this fight. And the way things are now, the group wont ever know WHY they cant win the fight, as everybody says "my rotation is fine" or "i think my animations look cool".

It is sad and will hurt competitive pve a lot. Even every casual or rp player with no intentions to ever do a trial should care about that, as a healthy and competitive pve-scene can only benefit this game and will add to its longevity.

Cogo

Audigy wrote: »

Its sad that people depend on addons so much these days. They need them to sort their inventory, to find quest´s, track harvesting nodes down and finding mistakes in their own performance.

Oh wait! Actually nobody is using a dps meter to find his own flaws, but to harass others so he can disguise his bad movement, bad CC abilities behind a high number in regards of the DPS.

I say, step up your game and learn to play without these tools and ask what YOU did wrong or just form your own badass Elitist groups in private.

I am playing ESO just like it came, no addons. NOPE, not even the skyshard one which is deemed safe....I consider that cheating, FOR ME, not for others.
I get much more happy when I find a skyshard on my own!

ESO is a great exemple of a game where you dont need any addons, info about damage etc. You do need to see your magika, health and stamina, as well as enemies health, but that does fine in bars.

Sure, games like WoW addons is everything. You cant even heal in raid without an addon there lol.

I think the past 10 years in MMO world, we all become lazy or settled that the addon will show me where the quest is so I dont have to look for it.
We forgot how much FUN it is to explore, figure things out and succeed on your own merits.

There is a guy in game I wount mention by name. Good player. Was very fast up to lvl 50 and veteran levels. Now he sais the game is boring and might quit. When I asked him how many lorebooks he had......he asked me "whats a lorebook?"

I think people need to forget all they know about MMO. ESO is a new type where the wonderful company Betheseda is involved. And those of you who played fallout, you know that that company are MASTERS in making something everywhere. You had to turn over every single stone in fallout to find most things...and even then you didnt. I see the same thing in ESO

I KNOW addons saves time, and several people tells me they cant be 4rsed or dont have time to look for skyshards or what the addon do for you. Well, Sorry, then you missing more then half the game AND complaining you are bored when you grinded (cant be fun to grind) all the way up to 50.

Try play without a single addon....See if you can do it! ;-)

Cogo

kirnmalidus wrote: »

Please don't. The game isn't about tracking numbers, it's about paying attention to what's actually going on around you.

YO! Someone highlight what this dude just said up there (*)

You NAILED it. ESO is about controlling your environment and work with your team. Not f3kin numbers!

Cogo

Therium104 wrote: »

TheGodless1 wrote: »

I have seen few games that have had parsers built in...always need a mod for it it seems...it also seems that you really miss those other games...you need to bring everything from there to here. I'm glad they don't have them. The game doesn't require it to function so therefore you don't either...you just WANT it...big difference...I want kids to stop ruining games with stupid things like this...but that's what I WANT...not what I get.

I don't care what you want. I hope you don't care about what I want in the game. Regardless, we both deserve the right to decide for ourselves.

As a player I deserve the right to play the game how I want. If this includes a group parser then so be it.

If you don't like it then don't download it.

ESO Devs -> Please add a group parser in game or by add on so I as a player can decide if I want this or not. Give me the choice.

Please dont take this the wrong way, and I mean this with all the love I have.
Can you quit ESO?

Kililin

Therium104 wrote: »

Please add a dps parser that tracks the damage and heals from other members of the group. How can this be a competitive mmo without access to something so basic and fundamental to game play. We were discussing it in the group today. Everyone thought is was stupid that thus is not available.

Can we get an add on for this? How was this game even released with a limitation this basic

I discussed it with my family today and everyone was against it, i dont know how this holds up against your groups opinion, but there you go.

There are competitive mmos without parser, even without addons. If you are unable to judge another players performance without such an addon maybe you started mmo's with wow and therefor never learnt to do it? Than i would suggest to see it as a chance to develop that skill.
Also i want to emphasize that i said judge performance, not numbers. Numbers are often irrelevant. A healer could be very good and better than most with less hps, a damage dealer could be better than others with less dps etc.

Gohlar

They won't even give addons access to self buff timers, don't hold your breath for a proper parser.

Besides, ESO is an "everybody wins" game so this would kind of go against that.

Lanlin

Man I'm so tired with these discussions already...

Although some people just won't ever believe it, every damn game out there is a "game of numbers" in its core.

As soon as a game starts to go down the competetive route (in this case: Timeruns in Trials) there will always be players that want to completely dominate that content and then go ahead doing what they want... Also there will be those that want to do the same, but they are just not able to because of a lack of skill or most likely and primarily knowledge. And of course there will also be those that just want to play the content and completely ignore the timed runs and call it "elitist ***".

Now the most important thing in timed runs is tactics - which group of monsters do we pull, how many can we AoE down at the same time, how to fight the boss most efficiently, ..., this list is VERY long ofc just to name a few examples. However a very close runner-up on things that are needed to be successful is how much DPS every player in your group can contribute to kill those monsters as fast as possible.

So... assuming I can divide around 90% of the playerbase into the 3 above-mentioning categories, DPS parsers being implemented would be of help to those that lack knowledge and at the same time be completely indifferent to the other 2 categories.

There is just no argument against a DPS parser being implemented for optional usage other than being an egoistic guy like "I don't want to play the way my group benefits the most from, but merely what I want to do".

DPS parsers do NOT change what you are actually doing, they just display it!

There will never be an MMO or game in general that enables you to play the way you want to without being a severe hindrance to the people you are playing with...

Think about that, then start talking again.

tengri

Lanlin wrote: »

DPS parsers do NOT change what you are actually doing, they just display it!

...which is none of your *** business!

Did I get that right?

Kililin

Lanlin wrote: »

Man I'm so tired with these discussions already...

Although some people just won't ever believe it, every damn game out there is a "game of numbers" in its core.

As soon as a game starts to go down the competetive route (in this case: Timeruns in Trials) there will always be players that want to completely dominate that content and then go ahead doing what they want... Also there will be those that want to do the same, but they are just not able to because of a lack of skill or most likely and primarily knowledge. And of course there will also be those that just want to play the content and completely ignore the timed runs and call it "elitist ***".

Now the most important thing in timed runs is tactics - which group of monsters do we pull, how many can we AoE down at the same time, how to fight the boss most efficiently, ..., this list is VERY long ofc just to name a few examples. However a very close runner-up on things that are needed to be successful is how much DPS every player in your group can contribute to kill those monsters as fast as possible.

So... assuming I can divide around 90% of the playerbase into the 3 above-mentioning categories, DPS parsers being implemented would be of help to those that lack knowledge and at the same time be completely indifferent to the other 2 categories.

There is just no argument against a DPS parser being implemented for optional usage other than being an egoistic guy like "I don't want to play the way my group benefits the most from, but merely what I want to do".

DPS parsers do NOT change what you are actually doing, they just display it!

There will never be an MMO or game in general that enables you to play the way you want to without being a severe hindrance to the people you are playing with...

Think about that, then start talking again.

I am sorry, but could you explain to me the need to measure DPS of a groupmember?

I use a DPS meter and several other addons.
I try to get better with it.
I would provide my parses to my raid leader.

If you want to run timed trials with randoms or have a guild with members with no compliance to rules, you are doing it wrong.
If your members are compliant, just let them run a DPS parser.

Therium104

Again. How I play my game is my decision. If I want a group dps parser that should be my choice. If you don't like it then don't download it or don't play in a group that uses one.

What happened to mmo.

Therium104

tengri wrote: »

Lanlin wrote: »

DPS parsers do NOT change what you are actually doing, they just display it!

...which is none of your *** business!

Did I get that right?

No. You are trying to prevent someone else from using something that is none of your business.

Did I get that right?

Therium104

Cogo wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

TheGodless1 wrote: »

I have seen few games that have had parsers built in...always need a mod for it it seems...it also seems that you really miss those other games...you need to bring everything from there to here. I'm glad they don't have them. The game doesn't require it to function so therefore you don't either...you just WANT it...big difference...I want kids to stop ruining games with stupid things like this...but that's what I WANT...not what I get.

I don't care what you want. I hope you don't care about what I want in the game. Regardless, we both deserve the right to decide for ourselves.

As a player I deserve the right to play the game how I want. If this includes a group parser then so be it.

If you don't like it then don't download it.

ESO Devs -> Please add a group parser in game or by add on so I as a player can decide if I want this or not. Give me the choice.

Please dont take this the wrong way, and I mean this with all the love I have.
Can you quit ESO?

Eh. Let me state again. Eso devs please add a group dps parser so those players that choose to use it have that option.

Kililin

Since they dont even show how long short timed buffs on *myself* last i reckon the answer is no.

It has an effect on other people, so it is not just about your choice.

Lanlin

Kililin wrote: »

I am sorry, but could you explain to me the need to measure DPS of a groupmember?

I use a DPS meter and several other addons.
I try to get better with it.
I would provide my parses to my raid leader.

If you want to run timed trials with randoms or have a guild with members with no compliance to rules, you are doing it wrong.
If your members are compliant, just let them run a DPS parser.

I don't quite comprehend what you are asking...
So you say you use a DPS parser and are trying to improve - that's the whole point i was making.
Measuring DPS in the group as a whole though makes comparison in between easier - of course you can go ahead and exchange data by yourself, no problem with that.

I'm personally ok with what current Addons provide because even though more complicated it is definately feasible to compare people.

However I am trying to state that it's completely unreasonable to argument against a DPS parser being directly implemented because i think people should respect the players they are teaming up with and as such play a spec that is viabe - regardless of it being noticable by others.

Thus the absence of DPS meters just helps the lazy, egoistic or plainly bad players by making it easier to hide what they are doing...

On a side note, quoting myself

Lanlin wrote: »

... every damn game out there is a "game of numbers" in its core.

I want to contradict this:

Kililin wrote: »

...
Also i want to emphasize that i said judge performance, not numbers. Numbers are often irrelevant. A healer could be very good and better than most with less hps, a damage dealer could be better than others with less dps etc.

While the basic assumption here actually does make sense when first looking at it, it's not correct. Numbers are never irrelevant... in the end comparison by numbers alone might not be completely accurate, comparison without numbers to back it up though is utter nonsense.

Of course it is not only about DPS...
But how about you compare DpS, HpS, DTpS (damage taken per second), deathcount, ... as a whole?
What is there left other than obvious Mistakes in terms of Movement or Coordination with the Group/Raid to look at for comparison?

Players that actually do the same "job" during a Bossencounter can almost entirely be compared by numbers alone. Players that have completely different "jobs" in an encounter of course can't be compared in that case - not by numbers and not by anything else.

tengri

Therium104 wrote: »

No. You are trying to prevent someone else from using something that is none of your business.

Did I get that right?

Do you did not.

You can use whatever you like with your own data - no problem here.

But you using anything to measure MY (or your group members) dps - big problem here. Those values are none of your business.

Shaun98ca2

You really cant judge how well somebody is doing in this game based on a DPS meter.

This game requires you do more than just DPS. You need to block dodge roll. Sometimes you need to self heal yourself or buff yourself/the group. Sometimes you just simply run out of mana.

A group DPS meter is forced on EVERYBODY. When you say its only for you and it doesn't effect anybody else that complete BS. Cause group damage meters ruined WOW with people getting kicked out of groups due to meters.

NOBODY wants to play this game and get kicked from a group cause they missed an arbitrary DPS number in combat cause they were blocking or dodging just to get kicked from the group.

This isn't WOW you can tell how good somebody is by their numbers. You tell by watching them in combat. Are they blocking, dodging, CCing, dieing a lot?

There is a DPS meter to track your own numbers so if you want to improve yourself that's fine.

Lkory

Therium104 wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

TheGodless1 wrote: »

I have seen few games that have had parsers built in...always need a mod for it it seems...it also seems that you really miss those other games...you need to bring everything from there to here. I'm glad they don't have them. The game doesn't require it to function so therefore you don't either...you just WANT it...big difference...I want kids to stop ruining games with stupid things like this...but that's what I WANT...not what I get.

I don't care what you want. I hope you don't care about what I want in the game. Regardless, we both deserve the right to decide for ourselves.

As a player I deserve the right to play the game how I want. If this includes a group parser then so be it.

If you don't like it then don't download it.

ESO Devs -> Please add a group parser in game or by add on so I as a player can decide if I want this or not. Give me the choice.

Please dont take this the wrong way, and I mean this with all the love I have.
Can you quit ESO?

Eh. Let me state again. Eso devs please add a group dps parser so those players that choose to use it have that option.

You got a self parser with FTC, you can share your dps with your group if you want.

I dont want others to see my DPS for the simple reason that if i spend a whole fight CCing mobs so we survive just to be told that i am useless cause my group is not aware that CC takes coordination and time...just to target the right mob and be in the right place at the right time. Yeah i cant save my tab target and just tab to get to him again.

You got your own parse, feel free to share it with your group.

Therium104

The problem you all seem concerned that you will be evaluated based on the parsers. You will still be evaluated on how you play. We are human beings.

None of this is about giving players the choice. It is about all of you being afraid to be judged based on a number. Who cares.

I like group parsers because I like a benchmark of how I can improve as a player. It is a personal decision and my choice.

I am appalled by the fact you all believe you should dictate how I or others play the game all and what we as players use to judge performance.

Don't you want to know how well you all new doing. How does this translate into a negative thing?

Again, if you do not like group parsers then do not use them but please do not be so conceited that you have the right to deny this from others.