The Necromancer's guild

stimpy986b14_ESO

I've been brainstorming a few ideas for a lore-friendly and balanced necromancy skill tree. this is what I've come up with. It seems the only way to do this and allow all classes to become necromancers including vampires and werewolves is as a guild tree.

-Becoming a necromancer-

After completing the fighter's guild or Mage's guild questline a messenger from the guild you completed first will approach you claiming there is a powerful necromancer attempting to raise an undead army to rival the alliances and it is your duty to stop them. After a challening quest you are given the option to either slay the necromancer or join him and learn the art of necromancy.

*If you choose to become a necromancer you will be permanently marked as such by the fighter's and mage's guilds and will never again be able to rejoin them. If you decide to kill the necromancer, you will gain a significant amount of mage's and fighter's guild XP but will have destroyed your only chance at learning the art of necromancy

-drawbacks-
After becoming a necromancer, you will be removed from the fighter's and mage's guilds and your skillpoints spent in those trees will be refunded. Necromancy is also frowned upon by the major alliances and your undead minions will be killed on sight by guards upon entering major cities (they may attack you as well if you have minions out if a crime system is implemented) excluding player-owned holds. Fighter's guild attacks won't have greater effect on you but they will on your minions.

-skills-

-active-

Reanimate Corpse - reanimates a nearby dead body to fight for you that performs basic light and heavy attacks. lasts until killed but cannot be healed by normal means. each minion reserves 5% of your max health while reanimated. Minions turn to dust when they die

Revenant (morph of reanimate corpse) - reanimates a nearby dead body to fight for you that performs basic light and heavy attacks. Attacks made by this minion heal itself and its master for 25% of the damage done. lasts until killed but cannot be healed by normal means. this minion deals 15% increased damage. each minion reserves 10% of your max health while reanimated. Minions turn to dust when they die

Necrotic Bomb (morph of reanimate corpse) - reanimates a nearby dead body to fight for you that performs basic light and heavy attacks. lasts until killed but cannot be healed by normal means. this minion deals 15% increased damage. each minion reserves 5% of your max health while reanimated. When this minion is killed it deals disease damage to nearby enemies. Minions turn to dust when they die

Corruption - deals disease damage over time and decreases healing received by 10%.

Plague (morph of Corruption) - deals disease damage over time and decreases healing received by 10%. If target is killed while plague is active, it spreads to nearby enemies.

Grim Corruption (morph of Corruption) - deals disease damage over time. target is immune to healing for the duration.

-Ultimate-

Ritual of the lich - Your basic light and heavy attacks will deal additional disease damage (based on max magicka) but consume ultimate. lasts until toggled or you run out of ult.

Commander of the Dead (morph of Ritual of the Lich) - Your basic light and heavy attacks will deal additional disease damage (based on max magicka) but consume ultimate. lasts until toggled or you run out of ult. minions have additional armor and spell resistance and deal additional disease damage while toggled.

Dark Priest - (morph of Ritual of the Lich) - Your basic light and heavy attacks will deal additional disease damage (based on max magicka) but consume ultimate. lasts until toggled or you run out of ult. Heavy attacks heal nearby minions for 20/40/60/80% of the additional disease damage done.

-passive-

Corrupted blood - increases disease damage done by 3/5%

Army of the Damned - increases max minion count to 2/3/4/5 but decreases individual minion's base damage by 15/20/25/30%

Please let me know what you think

Feimerdre

It would be easier to make the Guild of Demigods. At least the name would call what you plan to bring up. Please take a second and reflect a sorc necromancer in PvP... Balance isnt all PvE and being chased in PvE cities doesnt value running around in godmode the rest of the time...

Lord_Hev

Feimerdre wrote: »

It would be easier to make the Guild of Demigods. At least the name would call what you plan to bring up. Please take a second and reflect a sorc necromancer in PvP... Balance isnt all PvE and being chased in PvE cities doesnt value running around in godmode the rest of the time...

Instead of making strawman fallacies, perhaps you can constructively elaborate on what you feel may be unbalanced so that the OP and the rest of us discuss it?


Anyway, re-post from your other thread:

Lord_Hev wrote: »

My preference for the ultimate: Summon Bone-Colossus. Like, a melee & mobile inverse of the Sorcerer's Storm Atronach. For a set duration.

I'd also perfer no reanimation/toggle minion spells. Otherwise, the minions are weak on purpose to justify easy-mode cast and forget. Not to mention, bodies disappearing and general bugginess.

Make it summon a basic Skeleton Guardian instead for 45 seconds(60 seconds when fully leveled) Morphs: Summon Skeleton Champion(DPS/melee warrior) or Ghost(DPS/Ranged)

you may be able to pre-summon your minion before battle, but you have to deliberately anticipate it. Thus, their high damage-output and threat level is justified. Instead of making them a toggle that is balanced by being a drain on your skill-bar. So, i'd advocate for temporary summons only. That, and you will not have to have it on BOTH skill-bar swaps. Temporary duration-based, costly summon = A threatening useful minion that serves more utility, and allows better tactical awareness.

Yes to necromancy!

stimpy986b14_ESO

Actually the way I see it, necromancers shouldn't be able to summon their minions before a battle because that's what sorc minions are for. IMO a necromancer should be relatively weak at the beginning of a fight and then gain momentum as they exploit the corpses of their fallen enemies to build their undead army.

Lord_Hev

stimpy986b14_ESO wrote: »

Actually the way I see it, necromancers shouldn't be able to summon their minions before a battle because that's what sorc minions are for. IMO a necromancer should be relatively weak at the beginning of a fight and then gain momentum as they exploit the corpses of their fallen enemies to build their undead army.

It could work in theory. Like how the NPC necromancers rise skeletons/zombies off of their fallen ally you slay. Not exactly resurrecting *the* body because of how the corpse re-spawn system works. So maybe you cast the spell, and it has a duration.(lets say 15 seconds) Within that 15 seconds, you have to kill something(anything) to draw energy from it. In doing so, the secondary effect triggers and a Skeleton or whatever(based on your morphs) will automatically rise from the ground of where your prey was just slain.

Something like that maybe? So it requires concentration and anticipation. You want to cast that spell in a time-frame you feel comfortable of being able to dispose of [insert enemy] within a certain short duration. You pull it off right, and a powerful undead rises to battle.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

or better yet, just add more morphs to the game, give the option of turning the daedric summoning tree morphs into necromancy equivelants

Lord_Hev

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

or better yet, just add more morphs to the game, give the option of turning the daedric summoning tree morphs into necromancy equivelants

I'd only be okay with this if ZOS drastically lowers the expensive cost of skill re-specs...

bloodenragedb14_ESO

i was actually talking about a 3rd morph set, after your first morph reaches rank 5

The_Sadist

As I perviously mentioned in a thread you posted in, I like the concept but would rather a necromancer class as opposed to a guild / world skill line. The being kicked out of both guilds aspect is a bit harsh though as the idea of being a necromancer in hiding is viable and has happened before. Furthermore, more passives!
I agree with the people saying necromancers should gain momentum as a battle progress and there's more corpses to exploit.
I also think you shouldn't be able to reanimate any monsters which aren't at a basic level e.g. boss monsters or elite monsters. Though the idea of being able to summon a skeleton / ghost / zombie from a corpse (potentially have 2-3 reanimation spells with different morphs, e.g. the skeleton is ranged DPS the zombie is a tanky melee DPS and the ghost is a caster DPS) instead of the actual monster makes a little more sense as reanimating several monsters can potentially be a overpowered (I know you said only basic attacks though, so it wouldn't be much of an issue)
My notion of a necromancer class would roughly be as followed; 1 skill tree for frost / snare / direct damage, 1 skill tree for disease / poison / DoTs, 1 tree for minion summoning / support.
With something like your idea being a lich world skill line (though the lich being a world skill line would obviously need a drawback, something along the lines of reduced healing due to your undead nature.. but this is a drawing board!) as a lich is typically a powerful necromancer who achieved immortality through the dark arts... Obviously things would be subject to change as a necromancer-lich rolling with 10 minions would probably be over powered.

stimpy986b14_ESO

I may have misnamed the ult skill in my post. you do not actually transform into a lich, and being removed from the guilds serves as both respect to lore AND a drawback to necromantic power. Furthermore, it's far too lore-breaking to see necromancers with undead armies hanging around in the fighters and mages guilds and major cities which IS what will happen if they make it a class on its own because they can't impose such restrictions on an entire class.

The_Sadist

stimpy986b14_ESO wrote: »

I may have misnamed the ult skill in my post. you do not actually transform into a lich, and being removed from the guilds serves as both respect to lore AND a drawback to necromantic power. Furthermore, it's far too lore-breaking to see necromancers with undead armies hanging around in the fighters and mages guilds and major cities which IS what will happen if they make it a class on its own because they can't impose such restrictions on an entire class.

Um, no. In respect to lore? There are and have been plenty of necromancers within the mages guild throughout history, look it up. Also this isn't a world skill line, there shouldn't be a drawback for the necromantic power. If this was a world skill line perhaps, but a guild is a guild. I don't think people of the thieves guild will be kicked from the fighter's guild, but a lot of people will complain about it regardless.
Yes and no, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that people are defected necromancers, regretful of their actions or are spies and all that nonsense.
Daedra are bad and evil and yet the Sorcerer tree can summon them, that doesn't seem right lore speaking.. but still.
People really get into the lore and I love it, but come on, we can't all slay the daedric prince and we can't all have our souls stolen from us.. the issue is people and their immersion which they refuse to break or get angry at things which damage said immersion.. It's an MMO, these things can and will happen.

Necromancer class and lich world skill line all the way!

bloodenragedb14_ESO

The_Sadist wrote: »

Daedra are bad and evil and yet the Sorcerer tree can summon them, that doesn't seem right lore speaking.. but still.

certianly the daedra we can summon are little more than beasts, but even then not all daedra are evil.

i think either a class of itself or a 3rd set of morphs, after the first morph like clanfear or twilight matriarch, should feature undead elements and appearence, or simply a choice between staying daedra or undead in the morph beyond the basic first morphs

i certianly dont think it should be a world skill, something everyone can have, it will just get nerfed because it works better with some classes over others, and little whiney children will cry for nerfs.

The_Sadist

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

The_Sadist wrote: »

Daedra are bad and evil and yet the Sorcerer tree can summon them, that doesn't seem right lore speaking.. but still.

certianly the daedra we can summon are little more than beasts, but even then not all daedra are evil.

i think either a class of itself or a 3rd set of morphs, after the first morph like clanfear or twilight matriarch, should feature undead elements and appearence, or simply a choice between staying daedra or undead in the morph beyond the basic first morphs

i certianly dont think it should be a world skill, something everyone can have, it will just get nerfed because it works better with some classes over others, and little whiney children will cry for nerfs.

Um, winged twilights aren't beasts, they are actually quite intelligent and whatnot. Not all necromancy is evil either, people dabble in it to experiment and expand their practices, Divayth Fyr from Morrowind practiced necromancy for a time in his youth.

The skill line would have to be changed as it's not specifically about daedra anymore. I disagree though,there's so much room for new classes and I can see a necromancer being one of those classes.

Because people won't complain about being kicked out of both guilds? There's a lich discussion going on in the world skill line area, check it out, it's interesting enough.

Tessitura

I really want a set or sets of necromancer skills. But It should not kick me out of the other guilds or be so over dramatic as to join a Mannimarco wannabe on some atempt to over take the other alliances. It should be a secretive group of mages seeking to further their magical knowlegde. Being secretive means that your other guilds would not know; like the Dark Brotherhood.

You need more skills and passives to make it a guild skill tree.

There is a well thought out idea for a Lich world skill tree, as an alternative to Vamp/Werewolf. I would advise that anyone curious go check it out. Now that being said, I would take away the Ritual of the Lich ult (if it is supposed to turn you into a lich,) as a sign of support if you also like the Lich world skill tree idea.

The_Sadist

Tessitura wrote: »

I really want a set or sets of necromancer skills. But It should not kick me out of the other guilds or be so over dramatic as to join a Mannimarco wannabe on some atempt to over take the other alliances. It should be a secretive group of mages seeking to further their magical knowlegde. Being secretive means that your other guilds would not know; like the Dark Brotherhood.

You need more skills and passives to make it a guild skill tree.

There is a well thought out idea for a Lich world skill tree, as an alternative to Vamp/Werewolf. I would advise that anyone curious go check it out. Now that being said, I would take away the Ritual of the Lich ult (if it is supposed to turn you into a lich,) as a sign of support if you also like the Lich world skill tree idea.

I've been monitoring this topic purely because I'm all for a Necromancer class and until we get a sign the Necromancer won't be a class.. I don't want to settle for anything less. So a guild, or a world skill line are not ideal but they are perhaps a practicality.

IF Necromancy was a guild thing I feel that there would be a quest within the mage's guild to disband some Necromancers (who are actually some intellectually curious mage guild members) and if you choose to spare them you have the option to join them. Alternative, If you kill them instead, you get some rare items / spell points or something. Joining them shouldn't have a disadvantage, because this is a guild, if it was a world skill line perhaps but not a guild. It's like when the Dark Brotherhood make an appearance. I'm sure other guilds don't want a killer amongst them, but what they know won't hurt them.. yet.

Agreed, with skills and passives being re-worked, perhaps we should get @navystylz_ESO‌ and make a new thread!

The link to said thread is here; http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/95491/lich-concept/p1

In short, I want a class but a guild skill like will be okay if a class isn't planned. People going on about lore and whatnot need to sit down and look into it.

stimpy986b14_ESO

The thing is, I don't want to become undead myself in order to practice necromancy (In my vision, as I've stated, the ult does not actually turn you into a lich but corrupts your attacks to deal additional disease damage).

The_Sadist

stimpy986b14_ESO wrote: »

The thing is, I don't want to become undead myself in order to practice necromancy (In my vision, as I've stated, the ult does not actually turn you into a lich but corrupts your attacks to deal additional disease damage).

A Lich = / = Necromancer, however, often Liches are skilled Necromancers who strived for immortality and undertook the ritual.
I agree, you shouldn't have to be undead to practice Necromacy, not all Necromancers long for immortality. I think Tessitura was simply suggesting that if both your idea and the Lich concept were implemented there would be a degree of clashing. A simple name change would be in order, so Ritual of the Lich could be renamed to Ritual of Pestilence.

Though you don't seem to be updating your concept, adding the appropriate number of passives / actives for a guild skill line and evolving your idea.. I might make my own thread in the near future and potential recycle some mentioned spells, with acknowledgements of course.

That being said I'd prefer a class and I'd probably work on that over a Necromancer guild line.

Pyatra

Honestly it would be best to look at it from a "What skills are missing" perspective.

Disease damage
DOT or low direct dmg with other effects/debuffs on the skill. NO high damage since there is very little resist for this.

Summons... endgame useful
Undead Summons with viability in PVP or at least veteran. I say one or the other, I'm not shooting for the moon here, just want something for at least one of those.

Frost Spells
Let's be honest, we need more frost spells in game and the whole cold of the grave or whatever. Moderate damage with decent debuff or high damage with that crappy debuff it already has.

Edit: WTH is that skill NPCs use, provides them with a targetable ice wall that provides awesome cover and absorbs good damage? I want that.

Tessitura

Pyatra wrote: »

Honestly it would be best to look at it from a "What skills are missing" perspective.

Disease damage
DOT or low direct dmg with other effects/debuffs on the skill. NO high damage since there is very little resist for this.

Summons... endgame useful
Undead Summons with viability in PVP or at least veteran. I say one or the other, I'm not shooting for the moon here, just want something for at least one of those.

Frost Spells
Let's be honest, we need more frost spells in game and the whole cold of the grave or whatever. Moderate damage with decent debuff or high damage with that crappy debuff it already has.

Edit: WTH is that skill NPCs use, provides them with a targetable ice wall that provides awesome cover and absorbs good damage? I want that.

Disease damage will count as spell damage which there is plenty of resistence too.
A dot that does say 200-300 over 5-10 sec. would be perfectly acceptable.

Snares and roots are great debuffs I have no idea what you are talking about with them having crapy debuffs.

1- Rot Worms: Applies a rotting disease of worms to the target dealing 300 damage over10 secounds. Ticks every one sec.

Morphes.

1-- Flesh Worms: The worms now consume faster decreasing the time it takes for them to complete their meal. reduces the time it takes to finish from 10 secounds to 8 secounds.

2-- Festering Worms: The worms now apply a debuff, Which weakens the targets spell resistance and armor by 500.

WillFey

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/107052/necromancer-class-idea#latest

This is my idea for a necromancer class
Coming from TES and not MMO I realize its probably OP feel free to nerf in comments, I want your opinions