Vampires - Patch 1.0.7 (Suggestions and Questions)

BSGDevastator

Good day Ladies and Gentlemen!

I am here to give my opinion to the latest patch. Vampires. Yes, I know.
"Oh no please not a Vampire that comes here to cry." I'm not.
Honestly, I appreciate the nerf.

What really bugs me are 2 important things I want to discuss with you, so feel free to give your opinion.

1. The Bugs
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They're still here (namely the Stage Reset after relogging or zone switching / Passive disables after death).
Together with the nerf, playing a vampire is pretty annoying at the moment. I've heard they will fix it in Patch 1.1

My question is: When is that patch live? Anyways, I think it's unacceptable to nerf/buff something but keep the bugs in there.

2. The movement speed while in Mist Form
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Maybe I didn't hear some important informations as for why they did it, but out of the blue this nerf was unnecessary imo.
The movement speed you get while in Mist Form is pretty much the sole reason for using it.
In fight it is pretty useless, as you can get snared (by a DK for example) and then AOE'd to death
I can understand that it might be very strong to be able to escape so easily out of combat with Mist Form.

That's why I want to suggest something and hear your opinion:

Wouldn't it be better for the Mist Form to have the old movement speed while OUT of combat and get reduced to the new movement speed while IN combat? Sure, you'd be able to chase people way easier with the faster movement speed, but honestly: Sorcerers can teleport around like crazy, so why can't the vampires have a little bit more speed out of combat?

Anyways, that is just my point of view. I'd be happy if you share your informations/opinions/suggestions about this case, but please do so in an appropriate manner.
I might have missed something, so don't become completely ignorant to my post if I might have actually missed something.

Thanks for reading and maybe even thanks for answering.

Greetings
Narakuvera

ljb2k5_ESO

The only change for vamps that should have been made for pvp balance was not making Bat Swarm stack, that is it, nothing else. The rest are all unnecessary and ill conceived.

crimsonBZD

I feel like ZOS is pussyfooting around with the changes. They need to be direct and do what they need to, not this extra stuff.

indigoblades

i am trying to be patient with these vamp changes and agree all that needed changing was the ultimate ability. Anyway i am hoping vers 1.1 (is that the pst versiion?) has better changes than the 1.07 patch, 1.07 just nerfed vamps with out a single bug fix ... in the mean time i changed my subscription from 3 months to 1 month coz i feel uneasy where ESO is heading after the 1.07 patch. If things end up not that bad ill keep playing but dont like how the vamp balancing was handled.

crimsonBZD

I just personally feel that, with all the passives except the bite being broken in my experience, this was the worst time to make this change.

My main is virtually worthless with Vamp now, either i'll have to spend half my gold to find a decent fire resist glyph and waste an jewelry slot on it, or get cured.

I'd like to retain faith that Vamp will be rebalanced in such a way that it isn't a problem, but GOD forbid if they just baby everything down. Like... if they stick with this Vamp decision to save face and try to make additional changes to "rebalance" it, they're just funna water it down.

ChairGraveyard

They broke Elusive Mist in the nerf patch too - the morph's entire purpose does not function now... 0% speed boost not 30% like it should be post-nerf.

/facepalm

@crimsonBZD‌ - Sadly that seems to be the exact approach they're taking - over nerf things ham handedly, then nerf everything else down to be as weak as their overzealous nerf.

Eventually it will result in a game with homogeneous and boring, unfun skills across the board.

crimsonBZD

@ChairGraveyard‌ I think it would require them to consciously NOT acknowledge that happening.

I personally don't think they should be doing ANY balancing right now at all...

if you can truly have 1.6 x 10^150 combinations or what the hell ever, then how can they possibly balance that out correctly in the first month?

Ultimately, I think they have a very strong game here, but what they do in the next couple of months will decide the future of this game. For example, to me, this game becomes worthless if I go to join a group for craglorn, and they're all like "What's your DPS" "make sure you have these exact skills slotted" I could have resumed playing my old lvl 50 char on WoW and took him up to lvl 100 and bought all the crap expansions if that was their plan all along.

BSGDevastator

Well, I'm surely going to continue playing, that is out of question. The game is still great, they just nerfed something a little too hard.

I think they could really just remove the stackability of the Ultimate and return the rest to the old power. Buff Werewolves and make it harder (waaaaaay harder + remove Vampire bite passive) to become a Vampire or Werewolf.

That way, supernaturals will stay something special and something you would want to get but have to explore for half a year to get it. Something in that way.

MMO's lack this kind of uniqueness where something is super special. Everyone has the possibility to get everything, to become everything.

Well, I'll play until the Brotherhood / Thieves Guild release and see what happens then. Maybe I'll cure when I get the brotherhood skills.

OmniDo

As I had said in a previous post, but for which this thread is more appropriate:

#1) The "Elusive" component to Mist is completely worthless now.

Since there is ZERO information within the games built-in UI to display movement rate in the world (along with substantial other broken or absent information), I can only estimate that Elusive Mist imparts about as much speed as Sprinting, without the stamina cost.
This is only a guess, as I "seem" to reach the same locations at distance when manually estimating the travel time from point A to B while sprinting, versus traveling in Mist form.
This would be about as useful as allowing us to "Sprint" while in regular mist form.
If the "Advantage" here was to reduce damage and impart a magicka cost instead of a Stamina cost, okay, but that still seems quite underwhelming.
Vampires are supposed to be FAST creatures, which they were, prior to the nerf.
If spamming it is a problem, then the solution is simple: increase the cost of use, or lower/remove the damage reduction component.

#2) Dark Stalker Passive is STILL broken after Death.

From what I read, this has been a bug since beta.
C'mon devs, this is a simple variable check in your code.
Shall I write out an expression example for you?

; Pseudo code
If Skill<x> = True, Set Flag_A = 1
If Skill(Sneak) = True && Set Flag_A =1, AddMovementSpeed<%>

This should execute ANY time there would require a check for a passive flag, which shouldnt be required more than once per Login.
That Skill Flag should persist through death, since its, you know, "passive".
Passives dont just go away magically. Sure you can stack debuffs that reduce the effectiveness of a passive in situations where warranted to facilitate challenge, but the passive itself should never expire, and we shouldnt have to relog every time we die just to reset it.

#3) The Drain Component of Life Drain should work on ALL mobs, not just mobs that can be stunned.

Im getting rather annoyed with the "This mob is too powerful for that effect" message I see.
Okay, so we cant stun a boss, or special elite mob, fine. Im perfectly okay with that.
However, that doesnt mean that they dont have "Life" which cant be drained. There is no imbalance in limiting the the ability to one use per PLAYER (not total, as is currently the case), regardless of whether its fatal or not. Obviously the mobs have more life to drain if they dont die immediately from use, so charring them into a blackened state renders the use of the ability by any other vampires impossible.
Its not blood we're draining obviously, since we can "Drain" things like Skeletons, Ghosts, and anything else which would not qualify as containing "Liquid Blood".
What also adds ammo to the argument is that a mob can be "immune" to vampire drain, but not immune to all other non-CC effects applied to them, including health drains like the Siphon skill from Resto.

#4) Feeding is pointless, as are the stages.

They only serve as RP components, and impart no relevant benefit or penalty.
A myriad of suggestions for this have already been made, and hopefully it will not require 6 months for you to add a half-dozen lines of code to accommodate them.

rfpalmerb16_ESO

Vamps needed a BIGGER nerf. There is, in reality, NO disadvantage to playing a vampire. You can mitigate all the bad, leaving all the good. In reality Vamps should have a HUGE debuff during day-time hours -- something like a constant 1%/second stamina, magic, health and Ultimate drain. Then at nigh-time it should be reversed so there is a constant 1%/second regeneration of stamina, magic, health and ultimate. There is nothing more lore-wrong then a vamp being out in the middle of the day killing without regard. Likewise at night time, all should fear the vampire.

A good indication that Vamps are not balanced is that people are actually able to SELL their vamp bites for substantial money (8-15k).

And yes, it would make your character almost unplayable during the day if you are out in the sunlight -- such are the drawbacks of being an undead to whom sunlight is lethal. Only thing that would need to be done is make day-time and night-time equal in duration and last a little bit longer.

BSGDevastator

rfpalmerb16_ESO wrote: »

Vamps needed a BIGGER nerf. There is, in reality, NO disadvantage to playing a vampire. You can mitigate all the bad, leaving all the good. In reality Vamps should have a HUGE debuff during day-time hours -- something like a constant 1%/second stamina, magic, health and Ultimate drain. Then at nigh-time it should be reversed so there is a constant 1%/second regeneration of stamina, magic, health and ultimate. There is nothing more lore-wrong then a vamp being out in the middle of the day killing without regard. Likewise at night time, all should fear the vampire.

A good indication that Vamps are not balanced is that people are actually able to SELL their vamp bites for substantial money (8-15k).

And yes, it would make your character almost unplayable during the day if you are out in the sunlight -- such are the drawbacks of being an undead to whom sunlight is lethal. Only thing that would need to be done is make day-time and night-time equal in duration and last a little bit longer.

Seems like someone got heavily beaten up by a vampire and does not know how to win against them. Please, play it yourself and come back later.

rfpalmerb16_ESO

BSGDevastator wrote: »

Seems like someone got heavily beaten up by a vampire and does not know how to win against them. Please, play it yourself and come back later.

Sounds like someone wants to keep an unfair advantage against non-vamps.
(2 can play the stupid comment game)

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO

rfpalmerb16_ESO wrote: »

Vamps needed a BIGGER nerf. There is, in reality, NO disadvantage to playing a vampire. You can mitigate all the bad, leaving all the good. In reality Vamps should have a HUGE debuff during day-time hours -- something like a constant 1%/second stamina, magic, health and Ultimate drain. Then at nigh-time it should be reversed so there is a constant 1%/second regeneration of stamina, magic, health and ultimate. There is nothing more lore-wrong then a vamp being out in the middle of the day killing without regard. Likewise at night time, all should fear the vampire.

A good indication that Vamps are not balanced is that people are actually able to SELL their vamp bites for substantial money (8-15k).

And yes, it would make your character almost unplayable during the day if you are out in the sunlight -- such are the drawbacks of being an undead to whom sunlight is lethal. Only thing that would need to be done is make day-time and night-time equal in duration and last a little bit longer.

You're a fool, im glad you don't know anything about the different types of vampires in ESO , and the lore around them. Go bck to twilight ***.

rfpalmerb16_ESO

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

You're a fool, im glad you don't know anything about the different types of vampires in ESO , and the lore around them. Go bck to twilight ***.

argumentum ad hominem -- nice logical fallacy there you are a true master of debate. So you are saying that, in "Elder Scrolls Lore", vampires are *not* affected by exposure to sunlight? Hmm Its funny that I don't remember a single bloodline or clan that is immune to the effects of sun-light .

Since you don't like to read or possibly have difficulty understanding the subtext of a post, I will reiterate: I am pointing out that the cost-benefit ratio of being a vampire is too high on the benefit side and too low on the cost side . Vampires should SUCK during the day and ROCK during the night -- that is a balanced cost-benefit ratio and TRUE to the overwhelming majority of vampires across the entire body of vampire lore that has ever been written. If you are not skilled enough to adjust your play-style accordingly you should cure yourself and not worry about the time of day.

If you don't agree, explain why rather than committing the de rigueur American debate style of calling the other person a socialist poo-poo head. (Which I may or may not be)

BSGDevastator

rfpalmerb16_ESO wrote: »

argumentum ad hominem -- nice logical fallacy there you are a true master of debate. So you are saying that, in "Elder Scrolls Lore", vampires are *not* affected by exposure to sunlight? Hmm Its funny that I don't remember a single bloodline or clan that is immune to the effects of sun-light .

Since you don't like to read or possibly have difficulty understanding the subtext of a post, I will reiterate: I am pointing out that the cost-benefit ratio of being a vampire is too high on the benefit side and too low on the cost side . Vampires should SUCK during the day and ROCK during the night -- that is a balanced cost-benefit ratio and TRUE to the overwhelming majority of vampires across the entire body of vampire lore that has ever been written. If you are not skilled enough to adjust your play-style accordingly you should cure yourself and not worry about the time of day.

If you don't agree, explain why rather than committing the de rigueur American debate style of calling the other person a socialist poo-poo head. (Which I may or may not be)

It might be true that Vampires should be weaker during the day and stronger during the night. However, you can't make them any weaker at this point. They removed everything good and didn't fix a single bug. If they should make Vampires weaker during the day, then they should just rework the whole skillline to fit the lore of the Vampires.

xentek_ESO

I went vampire exclusively because of the movement speed while stealthed and the aesthetic. I really could care less about most other benefits we gain.

I disagree with being stronger at night, weaker during the day if done to an extreme because I feel like it doesn't have a place in the MMO genre. I should be able to play my character optimally when I log in and be able to play an aesthetic that appeals to me. I don't believe that tieing a character's power exclusively to the day/night cycle is a good way of bringing vampires in line. Besides, I know a lot of people that only get to log in for a few hours a day. Imagine if those few hours occurred exclusively during daylight?

What they need to fix is feeding and vampirism stacking. We should get progressively weaker the longer we go without feeding, not get more powerful. It's a disease, after all, a curse, and a compulsion to consume blood. I'm not sure how they lost sight of that in favor of bats and fart clouds, but it's par for the course in their game design. Currently, there is no reason to feed for the most part if we use vampire abilities, there simply isn't a downside. Non-stealth classes should also have a viable method of feeding.

rfpalmerb16_ESO

BSGDevastator wrote: »

It might be true that Vampires should be weaker during the day and stronger during the night. However, you can't make them any weaker at this point. They removed everything good and didn't fix a single bug. If they should make Vampires weaker during the day, then they should just rework the whole skillline to fit the lore of the Vampires.

I think that Vampires should have a constant stamina, mana and ultimate drain (maybe over-all % damage reduction) during the day and a constant stamina, mana and ultimate regeneration (and %damage bonus) during the night. Maybe a complete re-work is the ultimate solution -- and we would probably have to wait a year for that. Perhaps make those effects only apply when the vamp is outside -- not in dungeons or buildings.

You could tie the amounts of the attribute drain/rejen and damage bonus to the feeding cycles (i.e. stage 4 high daytime drain and -%damage and night high regen and +%damage).

It would make it important to take those keeps and rebuild them before the night hits when a swarm of vamps flood the battlefield ravaging anyone unlucky enough not to be fortified inside a warm tower.

Exivus1

rfpalmerb16_ESO wrote: »

committing the de rigueur American debate style

Wow.Just... wow.